Christians are not under the New Covenant

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Ferris Bueller

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Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!
Yes, these are things we must do.
The point is they have no value toward making a person righteous.
Believing in God does that all by itself, without works.
 

theefaith

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The whole scripture in context… In which Mary returns glory to God…

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house. - Luke 1

Very much like a Psalm of David in which glory is returned to God.

Yes you remember right

the more we praise Mary the more God is given glory

Scripture says that she went up from the desert of this world flowing with delights, leaning upon her Beloved. In fact, all the praises bestowed upon
the Saints, and upon Mary in particular, terminate in Christ our Lord ; because all these praises should be directed to the glory of her Divine Son, Who led her by His grace to the most exalted degree of merit and happiness. It is related in Scripture that the Queen of Saba, taking a multitude of gifts to Jerusalem, offered them all to Solomon. It is thus that all the saints act and the Mother of God especially. She is ever attentive to recognise that her virtues, her perfections, her merits, and her happiness proceed from the mercy of her Divine Son, Who is alone their source, their origin, and perfection : Soli Deo honor et gloria. All honour and glory to God alone; all should return to Him, because from Him alone is every perfect gift.
 

theefaith

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Meritorious and efficacious towards what exactly?
The crux of our disagreement here is that you have been saying faith and works are meritorious and efficacious towards justification (being made righteous in God's sight). Paul says only faith is meritorious and efficacious towards that. He uses Abraham, who did no work, either in faith or not in faith, to be justified, to prove that truth. All he 'did' was believe God. And it was credited to him as righteousness.

no the grace of baptism is justification and then the grace makes our faith and works meritorious and efficacious before God
 

theefaith

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A declaration of righteousness is what is imputed.
Paul says faith secures that all by itself, without (apart from) works—Romans 4:5-6.
The Catholic priesthood says that is not true.
So if you have grace imputed how can you grow or increase grace
Jn 10:10 grace and grace more abundantly
 

Ferris Bueller

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the sacraments are not required until the death of Christ when the new covenant is in effect
Heb 9:16
But not required for justification (being made righteous).
That's the truth that is evading you.
You are saying we have to do something to be justified when Paul says we are justified, today, the exact same way Abraham was justified—by faith, without works.
 

Ferris Bueller

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cos you cannot be a Christian without baptism
Ultimately, yes, I agree.
Ultimately, you can't say you believe and then turn away from Christ in disobedience.
That's James' faith 'alone' argument (James 2:24).
That is different than Paul's 'righteousness by faith without works' argument (Romans 4:5-6).
There is the justification of being made righteous (Paul's argument). And there is the justification of being shown to be righteous (James' argument).
Catholic priests confuse the two and default to a misunderstanding of James' argument.
Some Protestants confuse the two and default to a misunderstanding of Paul's argument.
 

Ferris Bueller

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So if you have grace imputed how can you grow or increase grace
Jn 10:10 grace and grace more abundantly
The grace of JUSTIFICATION is what is imputed to you by faith without works.
There are all kinds of forms of God's grace in a believer's life. We are talking specifically about God's grace in justification, not, for example, God's grace in answered prayer, or his discipline, or his felt presence, etc.

God's grace in justification can only be secured through faith, without works.
That doesn't mean believers don't have to work in obedience to God's commands. It means just what Paul says it means: Works play no role whatsoever in securing a declaration of righteousness (being made righteous). Faith all by itself apart from works does that.
 

Ferris Bueller

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no the grace of baptism is justification...
No.
Not the justification Paul talks about, anyway.
That would be more in line with the justification that James talks about.
You have to know the difference between Paul's and James' use of the word 'justified' to understand this. Your priest is not going to be able to help you with this. They don't get it either.

... and then the grace makes our faith and works meritorious and efficacious before God
But not efficacious and meritorious towards being made righteous.
But it may be efficacious and meritorious towards showing one to be made righteousness in Christ.
 

theefaith

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But not required for justification (being made righteous).
That's the truth that is evading you.
You are saying we have to do something to be justified when Paul says we are justified, today, the exact same way Abraham was justified—by faith, without works.

Paul is referring to “works of the law” not new covenant sacraments

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary tous, and took it out of the way, nailing it tohis cross;
 

theefaith

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The grace of JUSTIFICATION is what is imputed to you by faith without works.
There are all kinds of forms of God's grace in a believer's life. We are talking specifically about God's grace in justification, not, for example, God's grace in answered prayer, or his discipline, or his felt presence, etc.

God's grace in justification can only be secured through faith, without works.
That doesn't mean believers don't have to work in obedience to God's commands. It means just what Paul says it means: Works play no role whatsoever in securing a declaration of righteousness (being made righteous). Faith all by itself apart from works does that.

works of the law yes
It is by faith and baptism that we must be justified
God says so ez 36:25-2
Jesus says so jn 3:5 Mk 16:16
Apostles say so acts 2:38-39 & 8:36-38
1 pet 3:20-21

still is the apostle in acts 8 preached Jesus “faith alone” how does the eunuch know about baptism and desire it
 

Ferris Bueller

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Paul is referring to “works of the law” not new covenant sacraments
That would still be works.

The issue is not what works don't justify and which ones do. The issue is faith is what justifies. The way Abraham, our example, was justified. Besides, you do know Communion is a Passover Observance, right? And the washing with water is a Mosaic ritual.
 

theefaith

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That would still be works.

The issue is not what works don't justify and which ones do. The issue is faith is what justifies. The way Abraham, our example, was justified. Besides, you do know Communion is a Passover Observance, right? And the washing with water is a Mosaic ritual.

abraham is our father in faith
The new covenant the only valid covenant requires faith “Abraham” and baptism “Christ” Mk 16:16
 

Ferris Bueller

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It is by faith and baptism that we must be justified
Not to be MADE righteous. The faith part does that all by itself, just like it did for Abraham, our example. If that were not true, and that it was now justification by faith and works, Paul would not be able to use Abraham as the example of how we are made righteous today. Your problem is James is not saying a man is made righteous by faith and works.

still is the apostle in acts 8 preached Jesus “faith alone” how does the eunuch know about baptism and desire it
I think the very fact that the eunuch did get water baptized shows he understood James' 'faith alone' argument, consciously or unconsciously, quite well. Real faith has real works attached to it. You don't understand that James was not saying that faith and works make you righteous. He's saying real faith—the faith that saves—will cause a person to work. You still keep thinking that James is talking about the same matter of justification as Paul is. Justification has more than one meaning and usage. That's why you're not getting this.
 

Ferris Bueller

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The new covenant the only valid covenant requires faith “Abraham” and baptism “Christ” Mk 16:16
But not to be made righteous.
You're just not getting this.
And I don't really expect you to because, frankly, you are in a cult. A cult that threatens you if you leave it, or challenges it's (supposed) authority. They tell you 'we are the ones who have authority' and you're not allowed to investigate it and decide for yourself if that's true or not. Very, very few cult members find the truth and the courage to accept the truth that can release them from the grasp of their masters.
 

Taken

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Christians are not under the New Covenant
OP ^
General Blanket statement...
In General Disagree.

The NEW Covenant -
A NEW Promise being revealed AND manifested in a NEW Testament.


Via Gods Word in the OT, through Gods servants, Moses, Jeremiah, Ezekiel (and others), a NEW Promise of God would be revealed AND manifested.

The Revealing and Manifestation, WAS Accomplished, By, Through, Of, Gods Appointed Mediator and Servant; Christ the Lord Jesus.

The NEW Covenant, IS a Promise OF Forgiveness and Restoration;
TO ANY INDIVIDUAL PERSON WHO:
HEARTFULLY ACCEPTS Gods promise of Forgiveness and Restoration THROUGH Gods Mediator and Servant; Christ the Lord Jesus.

* THE CAVEAT...."any person WHO heartfully ACCEPTS the Offering OF the NEW Covenant.


THE "WHO" the NEW Covenant Applies TO...
is NOT dependent upon "WHAT' a person calls themselves.

A person "WHO" calls themself;
Male, Female, Young, Old, Gentile, Jew, Christian, Protestant, Catholic, Doctor, President, American, Russian, White, Black, Scientist, Teacher, Daddy, Mommy, WHATEVER....is irrelevant.

Every "individual" IS offered, TO BE "included" "under the NEW COVENANT", by and through Every "individuals" OWN, freewill Choosing.

The NEW Covenant, WAS OFFERED, during the days "old Covenant"...

(Which was "offered" TO Hebrews and the Twelve Tribes of ISRAEL centuries before, and still in effect.)

The NEW Covenant, "DID NOT ABOLISH the OLD Covenant".
And "many" Jews/Tribesmen
( in the day of the offering of the New Covenant, rejected the New Covenant )
And ....TO THIS DAY, many Jews, have "NOT" chosen "TO Accept" the Offering of the NEW Covenant, and
...instead have "chosen" TO "REMAIN" under the "OLD COVENANT".

Glory to God,
Taken
 

GRACE ambassador

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OP: The Body Of CHRIST is Not under the new covenant?
Precious friends, I agree; authority?:

1) Commonalities of: Marxism and religion?
a) Marxism = we the authority are In Charge and IF you disagree/
/go Against us = YOU are a domestic terrorist; we WILL get you!
b) religion = we are the authority; If you disagree, you
WILL suffer eternal damnation!​

(2) The LORD JESUS {THE TRUE Authority} Is The Way, The Truth,
And The Life!
No man comes to The Father, But By HIM! (Joh 14:6)

a) The house of Judah, And the house Of ISRAEL Will Be Under The
New Covenant
, IN The Future, When ALL Of Israel Is Saved!

Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a
new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house
of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer_33:14
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which
I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

...house of ISRAEL (v 22)...
Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather
you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put My Spirit within you, and Cause you to walk
in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them.

Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers;
and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

b) The Body Of CHRIST, Is Under GRACE, Not Any Covenant!:

Notice, Contrary To, And Rightly Divided From God's New Covenant With
the houses of Judah And ISRAEL, God's Grace, For The Body Of CHRIST,
does NOT cause us to obey, But Exhorts us who Are Eternally Saved!:

1) Eph 1:4
"
According As He Hath Chosen us In Him before the foundation of
the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

2) Eph 2:10
"For
we are His Workmanship, Created in CHRIST JESUS unto good
works, which God hath before ordained that
we should walk in them."

3) The Bema Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For The Body Of CHRIST, Surely
Shows
Not all "ran The GRACE race, and presented their bodies Daily, a living
sacrifice Unto The LORD JESUS CHRIST!"
(1 Corinthians 3:6-15)

Conclusion, Absolutely Correct: No, The Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under
God's PURE GRACE,
is NOT Under The New Covenant For Israel! Amen?

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
GRACE/MYSTERY fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)


Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
 

JohnPaul

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Don’t we Christians have to abide by the Old testament and the New Testament, which is Jesus created the new law for us Christians to follow and not the Mosaic law?