Christians are not under the New Covenant
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The symbolic "woman" or body of Jehovah's loyal angels at Genesis 3:15 produced it's first Kingdom heir in Jesus Christ. An additional 144,000 Kingdom heirs would also be selected to serve as "kings and priests" during Jesus Millennial reign (Rev 1:6, KJV), to fulfill Jehovah's everlasting purpose of a paradise earth for "meek" ones that was lost in the garden of Eden some 6,000 years ago.
Psalms 37 says: "Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, and they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.......forever."(Ps 37:10, 11, 29)
At Exodus 23 (and Leviticus 23), it outlines three festivals that the Israelites were to observe, the Festival of Unleavened Bread from Nisan 15-21 (beginning the day after the Passover that was observed on Nisan 14), the Festival of Harvest or Pentecost (or 50 days following the Sabbath that began on Nisan 16 or after a barley sheaf "of the first ripe fruits" [Ex 23:16] was waved by the high priest, seven sabbaths + one day, Lev 23:10, 11, 15, 16), and the Festival of Ingathering at the end of the agricultural year. These three festivals pictured the selecting of prospective members for God's heavenly Kingdom.(Ex 23:14-17)
The Festival of Unleavened Bread pictured the selection of Jesus Christ upon his baptism, who as the "passover lamb" was sinless and in which the passover lamb's blood placed on the two doorposts and upper part of the doorway on Nisan 14, 1513 B.C.E. protected the firstborn of that house from death at the exodus from Egypt when Jehovah's angel passed over their homes (Ex 12:21-23), for leaven at times pictured sin or corruption.(see Matt 16:6, 12; Mark 8:15; Note: the month of Nisan [Neh 2:1] or the Hebrew Abib [Ex 13:4] ran from about the middle of march to the middle of April and was the first month of the sacred Hebrew calendar)
The Festival of Harvest or Pentecost pictured the selecting of the additional members of God's Kingdom, the 144,000 imperfect ones as "firstfruits".(1 Cor 15:23; Rev 7:4; 14:1-3) That is why this festival used leaven, to show that these ones would be chosen from among "sinners" (Lev 23:17) and of which the first imperfect members of God's Kingdom were the "about 120" who had Jehovah's holy spirit poured out on them and became "anointed" ones (Acts 1:15; 2:4), sealed with holy spirit as prospective "kings and priests".(Rev 1:6)
The Festival of Ingathering at the end of the "harvest" season (see Matt 13:30) pictures the final sealing of the "chosen ones" who are alive when this occurs, just before Armageddon (Rev 16:14, 16), so that the full number of 144,000 will have been completed.
The nation of Israel's exodus from Egypt in 1513 B.C.E. pictured the spiritual Israelites or "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) leaving symbolic "Egypt" or the world to become members of Jehovah's spiritual "temple" (2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22), who, upon their resurrection, become "a new creation" or adopted spirit "sons of God".(Rom 8:14-17; Gal 6:15)
The woman referred to in Genesis 3:15 is Eve. It's not a symbolic woman, and it definitely is not referring to God's loyal angels! The next verse also refers to "the woman":
(16) To the woman he said, “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In pain you will bear children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
which is also clearly not referring to angels. Jesus was the offspring of a human woman with God performing the conception - no angels were involved. God prepared the human body for Jesus, Hebrews 10:5 (WEB):
(5) Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, “Sacrifice and offering you didn’t desire, but you prepared a body for me.
Revelation 1:6 (WEB):
(6) and he made us to be a Kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
This is not referring to the 144,000. The 144,000 are all Jews who are living on the earth during the Great Tribulation of God's wrath - Revelation 7:4 (WEB):
(4) I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:
The whole of the Church have already been resurrected and are sitting on their thrones in heaven before these 144,000 are sealed. See this post in the discussion How Could Have Satan Sinned? for a more detailed explanation of that.
Gen 3:15
Lk 1:28
Rev 12:1
A good tree!
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!
A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Luke 1:28
Wycliffe Bible
1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
A sinner would be an evil tree with evil fruit, but the fruit of Mary is salvation!
Mary brings in the good fruits of our redemption and salvation!
A Royal greeting!
Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!
God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!
This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!
In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33
The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!
Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace who is the throne of divine grace!
Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holy mother of God!
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!
See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!
Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!
Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?
Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!
No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2
Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!
That’s impossible!
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!
Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!
God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!
This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!
In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33
The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!
Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace who is the throne of divine grace!
Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holy mother of God!
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!
See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!
Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!
Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?
Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!
No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2
Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!
That’s impossible!
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Well that is a false title .
Christains are not under the new covenant . WRONG . Christains whether jew or gentile are the ONLY ONES UNDER the NEW COVENANT .
Let that sink in real , real , real deep .
Christains are not under the new covenant . WRONG . Christains whether jew or gentile are the ONLY ONES UNDER the NEW COVENANT .
Let that sink in real , real , real deep .
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
1- Can you explain this to me please?
2- What verse in scripture says that Mary was freed from original sin in the womb?
3- In her mother's womb before Mary was born?
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gen 3:15 prophecy of the savior
Enmity total war none of satans wicked works are found in Her immaculate purity
lk 1:28 full of grace
rev 12:1 clothed with the sun
Immaculate purity
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). “For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21).
In Revelation 22:18-19, God gives us a warning, "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
The Roman Catholic church "adds to scripture" through their "traditions" that contradict many, many verses in the Bible. Therefore, I challenge you to take time to study the Word of God. The Lord will show you wonderful things that will change your life.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
You did not explain how those verses explain how and when and how Mary became perpetually sinless or why she needed to be sinless by using scripture; not just the verses for me to look up for you!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
These are the only two verses in the RSV that use the term "full of grace".
the apostles are also God breathed
Jn 20:21:23
where does scripture say scripture alone?
where does it say all of revelation is found in scripture?
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith!
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42
As the Bible refers to something other than the Bible alone then the doctrine of the “Bible Alone” or sola is NOT biblical and false doctrine!
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
The church is the pillar and ground of truth! 1 Tim 3:15
The word of God is not limited to the Bible alone!
How do you know from the Bible alone exactly what is and what is not the Bible?
The church and the apostles with power and authority were founded before the New Testament, and wrote the New Testament and cannonized the Bible!
The rule of faith is not the Bible or the Bible alone, but God, and His divine revelation!
Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (It does not say every verse of the Bible alone)
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handy work.
Gen God called Abraham
Matt 16:16-17 Peter received divine revelation from the Father.
Lk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
(This is divine revelation and opposes the doctrine of the Bible alone, the heavens are not the Bible or Bible alone, the word of God did not come to Abraham, Peter, John etc. by the Bible or Bible alone)
Luke 1:28
Wycliffe Bible
28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You might be interested that when you hover over the Bible verse in your post "full of grace" doesn't appear. ;^)
Nor does "blessed art thou among women". The Cambridge Bible Notes says of this phrase, "These words are of dubious authenticity, being omitted by B and various versions. They may have been added from Luke 1:42".
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Idol worship of Mary is blasphemy!
Exo 20:4..."You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Deu 4:15-16.."Therefore take good heed to yourselves. Since you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, (this is repeated in Deu 5:8)
Deu 4:15-16.."Therefore take good heed to yourselves. Since you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, (this is repeated in Deu 5:8)
(The woman is the church)
Gen 3:15... I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."
(over 80 translations use this term- the Catholic bibles do not)
Lk 1:28... And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"
Rev 12:1...And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
A- The woman/the bride represents the Christian Church universal - not the RCC.
B- The twelve stars represent the 12 OT tribal elders as well as the 12 NT apostles. (12x12,000 = 144,000) A symbolic number of the fullness of the universal Christian church.
B- The twelve stars represent the 12 OT tribal elders as well as the 12 NT apostles. (12x12,000 = 144,000) A symbolic number of the fullness of the universal Christian church.
A good tree! You should have quoted all three verses that reveal that the RCC bears the bad fruit because of its multitude of "traditions" that cannot be supported by scripture.
Mat 7:17...So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit.
Mat 7:18...A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19...Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:18...A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19...Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
It is those basket full of "traditions" of the RCC that cannot be TRUTHFULLY supported with scripture that have been rotting over the centuries and will only be thrown into the fire when the Lord comes at the end of this age.
________________________________________________________________
theefaith said: The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation!
Matthew 7:18...A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
theefaith said: Jesus is our salvation!
Matt 1:21..."she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." (You stated below that Mary was your salvation???)
theefaaith said: This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 2:30..."...for mine eyes have seen thy salvation...
(MS added v.33 And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him; )
(MS added v.33 And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him; )
theefaith said: Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:30..."And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God."
(MS note: this does not indicate our salvation was found due to Mary!)
(MS note: this does not indicate our salvation was found due to Mary!)
theefaith said: [Mary]consented to our salvation!
Lk 1:38 - And Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word."
(MS note: Mary was never asked by the angel to give consent to give birth to Jesus! Mary considered herself to be the servant/handmaid of the Lord only.
(MS note: Mary was never asked by the angel to give consent to give birth to Jesus! Mary considered herself to be the servant/handmaid of the Lord only.
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Jim B
Well-Known Member
All of this is true. However, you will never convince Catholics about anything using the Bible as proof, as their entire faith is based on many other things that are extraBiblical. "The veneration of Mary is based on a cultural elevation of the ideal woman to that of the supreme goddess. Unfortunately, because it's not Biblical, it has resulted in the creation of marianismo, "An historic view of females and the 'perfect' females characteristics including- submissiveness, selflessness, chastity, hyper femininity and the complete acceptance of the male as dominant in any courting pair." (psychologydictionary.org, my emphasis added)
Unfortunately, women are expected to live up to this 110%, resulting in their excessive domination by males and resulting misery. Like many other things in Catholicism it is not based on the Bible, but on made-up religious doctrine and practices.
Sola scriptura.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
I agree but that doesn't mean that we should not continue to use scripture as Jesus did when He was tempted with scripture by Satan....
Mat 4:1-2...Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And he fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was hungry.
3- And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."
3- And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."
4- But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
5-6 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, 'He will give his angels charge of you,' and 'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"7- Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
8-9...Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them; and he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."10Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
11Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and ministered to him.Satan knows scripture as well. He used it in the Garden with Eve as the weaker sex but Christ knew how to use scripture against him as His first temptation account in Matthew --- and that is how the RCC and many of the cults use scripture in the same distorted manner.
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Jim B
Well-Known Member
Of course we should use Scripture -- all the time. It is clearly God's message about how we should regard Him, His Son, and The Holy Spirit, and how we should conduct ourselves in our temporary existence on Earth.
That is what the Gospel is about, not a special caste of priests, extra-Biblical behavior, confessing our sins to professionals, creating icons and then praying to them instead of God, rejecting the rest of the Body of Christ who don't subscribe to their invented religion, etc.
The Old Testament is filled with this kind of ideology and ritual. The New Testament is filled with truth.
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