Christ's Birth - Sept. 11, 3 BC

[Desire Of All Nations]

Well I have been teaching eschatology on the college level for 35 years and have read myriads of "interpretations". Yes our Lords return is imminent but still may not happen in our lifetime. I will be teaching another year long study this fall.

Germany strengthening its military for a direct attack against Iran and it's allies, China and Russian's meteoric rise as world powers, and the U.S.'s decline as a world power all say Christ is coming within our lifetimes. I am not trying to predict a specific date, but i would go so far as to say it can and probably will happen within the next 4-8 years. Christ emphatically prophesied that the generation that sees all the pivotal end-times signs will be around to see Him return, which is why He especially warned the people of this generation to pay attention to what's happening around them.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Germany strengthening its military for a direct attack against Iran and it's allies, China and Russian's meteoric rise as world powers, and the U.S.'s decline as a world power all say Christ is coming within our lifetimes. I am not trying to predict a specific date, but i would go so far as to say it can and probably will happen within the next 4-8 years. Christ emphatically prophesied that the generation that sees all the pivotal end-times signs will be around to see Him return, which is why He especially warned the people of this generation to pay attention to what's happening around them.

The key sign would Matthew 24:14, which has about been realized.
Then there was Israel becoming a nation in 1948 (wars still continued until peace was realized by mid 1949) and the gathering of Jews back home as well.
The decades of moral decline and increased corruption. The drug revolution in the 60's, abortion legalized in 74 and now Gay Marriage - which I thought would be the straw thay broke the camel's back.
Lawlessness abounds destroyimg our cities and now a New World Order, a One World Government ceasing control of our rights and freedoms through an orchestrated pandemic that has created fear, confusion, death, surrounded by lies. It's diabolical. Dont get me started on this vaccine.
How much further can we descend down this spiral? A couple more years I think.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Germany strengthening its military for a direct attack against Iran and it's allies, China and Russian's meteoric rise as world powers, and the U.S.'s decline as a world power all say Christ is coming within our lifetimes. I am not trying to predict a specific date, but i would go so far as to say it can and probably will happen within the next 4-8 years. Christ emphatically prophesied that the generation that sees all the pivotal end-times signs will be around to see Him return, which is why He especially warned the people of this generation to pay attention to what's happening around them.

Well Germany may be allied with Persia (Iran) when it attacks Israel with Russia. I certainly hope the rapture comes while I am alive! Based on all teh political and economic metrics as well as teh disasters that are destroying food supplies- things are going to get real bad real soon. We believers should learn from the Mormons and get a nice stockpile of food on hand.

 

[Naomi25]

Gen. 1:14 tells us the sun, moon and stars are also used for signs. A constellation and a star (likely the planet Jupiter) were used by the Magi. According to a sign in the Heavens in Rev. 12:1,2 ( in which a this constellation appeared around Jesus Birth), Jesus was born on Sept. 11, 3 BC ... calculated to within a 81 minute window.
(Sunset @ 6:18PM and Moonset @ 7:39PM)
This would have been Tishri 1, The first day of the Feast of Trumpets;
The anniversary of the first day of Creation;
Also the Birthday of Noah.
This would mean Jesus was 33 1/2 years old if He was crucified in 31 AD.

It has always been a question when Jesus was really born. It could have been on a pagan holiday, to overshadow that holiday and erase it. But since the shepherds were tending to sheep that were grazing out in the fields, it probably didn't happen in winter. I guess they could have had a warm year. Sheep and cattle di sift through the snow to get at dead grass too, dont they? I don't know.
This study goes into detail about it.

When Was Jesus Christ Born? The Bible Says September 11, 3BC-The Day of the Feast of Trumpets

I’ve heard this date/theory as well. I listen to Michael Heiser a lot, he does a lot of work on the OT, languages, the Divine Council, etc. Fairly eye opening and interesting.
It’s interesting, isn’t it, how absolutely meaningless it is for us…Westerners, to have Christ’s birthday potentially fall on Noah’s birthday. Or the day of creation. For the Jewish audience, however, it would have been staggering…a trumpet blast of declaration! How much do we miss, I wonder, not being steeped in Jewish history and understanding?

 

[Pilgrimer]

Gen. 1:14 tells us the sun, moon and stars are also used for signs. A constellation and a star (likely the planet Jupiter) were used by the Magi. According to a sign in the Heavens in Rev. 12:1,2 ( in which a this constellation appeared around Jesus Birth), Jesus was born on Sept. 11, 3 BC ... calculated to within a 81 minute window.
(Sunset @ 6:18PM and Moonset @ 7:39PM)
This would have been Tishri 1, The first day of the Feast of Trumpets;
The anniversary of the first day of Creation;
Also the Birthday of Noah.
This would mean Jesus was 33 1/2 years old if He was crucified in 31 AD.

It has always been a question when Jesus was really born. It could have been on a pagan holiday, to overshadow that holiday and erase it. But since the shepherds were tending to sheep that were grazing out in the fields, it probably didn't happen in winter. I guess they could have had a warm year. Sheep and cattle di sift through the snow to get at dead grass too, dont they? I don't know.
This study goes into detail about it.

When Was Jesus Christ Born? The Bible Says September 11, 3BC-The Day of the Feast of Trumpets

It has never been a question when Jesus was born. We have writings dating back to the Apostolic period that state he was born on December 25. The notion that December was a date chosen by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century to replace a pagan holiday is a myth that was first published by a rabidly anti-Catholic Scottish preacher whose purpose was to "prove" his interpretation of the "Mystery Babylon" of the Revelation was the RCC. He made all kinds of rather wild and totally unsubstantiated claims that have been repeatedly shown by history, archaeology, linguists, and experts in the ancient Mesopotamian religions which he claimed was the source of the "pagan adoptions" of the Catholic Church but all have been completely debunked for many years. But the baseless rumors have in recent years seen a resurgence and unfortunately, without some knowledge of the history of the nativity of Jesus, good people tend to believe the claims.

And allow me to point out that there were a number of different astronomical anomalies that occurred in the decade around Jesus' birth, and each one has at times been identified as "the" date when Jesus must have been born. Which is why there are so many conflicting dates. But the basic premise is not correct, that Jesus had to have been born on a certain date (and time) based on some astronomical event. All of these phenomena, which would have been variously observable all over the world, would each speak to a particular peoples depending on their particular belief system. For example, the triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in Pisces, referred to by astronomers as a "Greatest Conjunction," would mean different things to different peoples depending on what those "stars" (the ancient world did not call them planets but "wandering stars") symbolized in their religion. What we have to consider is what, or other events, would have meant to the Magi of the east, which may have been something totally different from it meant to the Greeks.

So it's not a matter of identifying a particular astronomical event to determine the date of Jesus' birth. It is a matter of history, what date the earliest writings state and what all the Biblical evidence supports. And there is a wealth of information to consider.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It has never been a question when Jesus was born.

You begin with absurd statement, that it has never been a question.
The birthday of the most important person in history isn't in the Bible - so many questioned it. God intended it not to be. I am okay with not knowing for sure.
Your whole post was void of any proof of date. Strike two.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Ronald David Bruno,

Wow that is interesting.

Do birthdays really matter, and are they important? Do they ever become unimportant?

 

[Pilgrimer]

You begin with absurd statement, that it has never been a question.
The birthday of the most important person in history isn't in the Bible - so many questioned it. God intended it not to be. I am okay with not knowing for sure.
Your whole post was void of any proof of date. Strike two.

I would have been happy to provide documentation to substantiate my comments.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hello Ronald David Bruno,

Wow that is interesting.

Do birthdays really matter, and are they important? Do they ever become unimportant?

That we were born matters, not particularly what day we were born. God created us. Being born again is more significant. I think there is one mention in Job 1 of his sons celebrating their b-days.
I also think Jesus birthday was not mentioned in scripture for a reason. So many repercussions can come out of that. Astrology is a false practice, people trying to tell you what you are like, your personality, and behavior, based on your b-day. Imagine them trying to tell us what Jesus was like, why He did what he did because He was born on such a date? He was a Capricorn or a Libra ... bla, bla, bla. And then another false notion would spring up that "people born on Jesus b-day would be like him - but only if the planets were in the right configuration."
We celebrate on Dec. 25. It's okay with me. We love Jesus and are joyful He was born, It's something precious to celebrate. It's interesting that Israel celebrated a lot of feasts, important dates to remember, but b-days weren't among them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matthew 2:9-11 KJV
9) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10) When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11) And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

I've never understood how a star in the sky could stand over a particular house.

Much love!

There is so much assumption about the magi and the star, when it is rather plain that there is more to the story when you examine the details.
Matthew ch 2...
"Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, 2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

So here we have the magi (wise men who practiced astrology and possibly other magical arts) from the east (no number is mentioned) saying that they saw "his" star in the east. What made this "his" star?
Who were the magi anyway and why did they come all the way from Babylon to Jerusalem just to bring gifts to a child?

These Babylonian astrologers apparently had the custom of bringing gifts to royal children, so for some astrological reason, there was a star that appeared in the heavens that they interpreted as indicating the birth of a new "King of the Jews". Now since the Jews were under Roman domination, this was significant. The Jews were a small number of people living in an occupied land. So why would pagan astrologers (who practiced what God's law condemned) be given an indication of the birth of a single child in an insignificant nation occupied by Rome?

God had announced Jesus' birth to Jewish shepherds who immediately went to the stable in Bethlehem to see the newborn with his parents.

Now, since the magi had come to honor a new King with expensive gifts, it was apparently not "worship" that they offered as to a god, but obeisance as in honoring royalty. Its the same word, with context determining the rendering. They had no reason to "worship" Jesus.
These Babylonians had a plethora of their own gods.

So how did they end up in Jerusalem?

"3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. 5 They said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for this is what has been written by the prophet:"

6 ‘And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah,
Are by no means least among the leaders of Judah;
For from you will come forth a Ruler
Who will shepherd My people Israel.’”

So getting all the information he needed to track down this threat, Herod prepared to send out his men to make sure that this child became a casualty.

"Then Herod secretly called for the magi and determined from them the exact time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, so that I too may come and worship Him.” 9 After hearing the king, they went on their way; and behold, the star, which they had seen in the east, went on ahead of them until it came to a stop over the place where the Child was to be found. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. 11 And after they came into the house, they saw the Child with His mother Mary; and they fell down and worshiped Him. Then they opened their treasures and presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And after being warned by God in a dream not to return to Herod, the magi left for their own country by another way."

Now this same 'star' moved in the sky until it came to a stop over the house where Jesus was. It had initially led them, not to Jesus but to Herod, a wicked and jealous King who was not going to tolerate any challenge to his own dynasty. No one was going to usurp his own son as future King of the Jews. So he hatched a plot to destroy this child before he even had a chance to grow up.

This begs the question.....If God had sent the star, then wouldn't that have made him complicit in the deaths of all those babies that Herod sent his men to destroy?

And if God had sent the star, it would have led them straight to Jesus, not to Herod. So who wanted Jesus dead? Who would use a wicked King to do his dirty work? Who would use pagan astrologers who unwittingly played right into his hands?
God warned the magi in a dream not to return to Herod, so they in their ignorance were not held accountable, but Herod was.

Whenever I see nativity scenes with the wise men at the stable and the star overhead, I can feel my anger rising.....this was quite obviously a satanic plot to have Jesus killed. The magi were never at the stable, and the star was from the devil...IMO it is nothing to celebrate....but something to be exposed for the lie that it is.

 

[Addy]

You begin with absurd statement, that it has never been a question.
The birthday of the most important person in history isn't in the Bible - so many questioned it. God intended it not to be. I am okay with not knowing for sure.
Your whole post was void of any proof of date. Strike two.

YEP... and YEP...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Gen. 1:14 tells us the sun, moon and stars are also used for signs. A constellation and a star (likely the planet Jupiter) were used by the Magi. According to a sign in the Heavens in Rev. 12:1,2 ( in which a this constellation appeared around Jesus Birth), Jesus was born on Sept. 11, 3 BC ... calculated to within a 81 minute window.
(Sunset @ 6:18PM and Moonset @ 7:39PM)
This would have been Tishri 1, The first day of the Feast of Trumpets;
The anniversary of the first day of Creation;
Also the Birthday of Noah.
This would mean Jesus was 33 1/2 years old if He was crucified in 31 AD.

It has always been a question when Jesus was really born. It could have been on a pagan holiday, to overshadow that holiday and erase it. But since the shepherds were tending to sheep that were grazing out in the fields, it probably didn't happen in winter. I guess they could have had a warm year. Sheep and cattle di sift through the snow to get at dead grass too, dont they? I don't know.
This study goes into detail about it.

When Was Jesus Christ Born? The Bible Says September 11, 3BC-The Day of the Feast of Trumpets

You could be right, you could be wrong. We won't know till we get to heaven. but the star was no star! Stars don't hover, they don't come to rest over a house, they do not travel north-south . No the start I am convinced was the shecinah glory of God leading the maji to the house (not the stable ) where th eyoung child Jesus was at.

 

[liafailrock]

Gen. 1:14 tells us the sun, moon and stars are also used for signs. A constellation and a star (likely the planet Jupiter) were used by the Magi. According to a sign in the Heavens in Rev. 12:1,2 ( in which a this constellation appeared around Jesus Birth), Jesus was born on Sept. 11, 3 BC ... calculated to within a 81 minute window.
(Sunset @ 6:18PM and Moonset @ 7:39PM)
This would have been Tishri 1, The first day of the Feast of Trumpets;
The anniversary of the first day of Creation;
Also the Birthday of Noah.
This would mean Jesus was 33 1/2 years old if He was crucified in 31 AD.

It has always been a question when Jesus was really born. It could have been on a pagan holiday, to overshadow that holiday and erase it. But since the shepherds were tending to sheep that were grazing out in the fields, it probably didn't happen in winter. I guess they could have had a warm year. Sheep and cattle di sift through the snow to get at dead grass too, dont they? I don't know.
This study goes into detail about it.

When Was Jesus Christ Born? The Bible Says September 11, 3BC-The Day of the Feast of Trumpets

I agree with your premise, and I often wonder why more people do not understand Revelation 12:1 as astronomical code. I do not agree on the year, but the difference is small. Heck, I'm 62 years old and can lose track of a few years let alone that many in 2000! However, He was born at the feast of trumpets. Using other sources (and not all bible or books), I came to these three conclusions:

1) Christ lived 12240 days (c.f. John 21:11)
2) He was born at the feast of the trumpets
3) 12240 days later should fall on a Wednesday (full moon) Passover for the crucifixion and the starting point should likewise be a new crescent moon.

From these premises I calculated the years; not too far off from yours. But regardless of the years, In my opinion, I think Revelation 12:1 alone is basis enough to give up a December nativity.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I agree with your premise, and I often wonder why more people do not understand Revelation 12:1 as astronomical code. I do not agree on the year, but the difference is small. Heck, I'm 62 years old and can lose track of a few years let alone that many in 2000! However, He was born at the feast of trumpets. Using other sources (and not all bible or books), I came to these three conclusions:

1) Christ lived 12240 days (c.f. John 21:11)
2) He was born at the feast of the trumpets
3) 12240 days later should fall on a Wednesday (full moon) Passover for the crucifixion and the starting point should likewise be a new crescent moon.

From these premises I calculated the years; not too far off from yours. But regardless of the years, In my opinion, I think Revelation 12:1 alone is basis enough to give up a December nativity.

How does 153 fish caught have anything to do with 12240 days?

 

[liafailrock]

How does 153 fish caught have anything to do with 12240 days?

Multiple 153 x 80. That's not the biblical deduction I used to arrive at that number of 12240. I knew about the number first but one can find multiples like that, It's more of a symbolic confirmation. We can otherwise ask ourselves why not 150? It must have a symbolic meaning to be that precise. It is considered by some to be the number of the elect.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Multiple 153 x 80. That's not the biblical deduction I used to arrive at that number of 12240. I knew about the number first but one can find multiples like that, It's more of a symbolic confirmation. We can otherwise ask ourselves why not 150? It must have a symbolic meaning to be that precise. It is considered by some to be the number of the elect.

Why 80? And I also remember hearing that 153 was the same number of miracles Jesus performed. ???
But the elect? The Church is the elect numbering in the billions.
Also heard if the arhumwnt that Jesus must have died on a Wed or Thurs. I think it was 3 days inclusive, and probably 40 hours. Dying on Friday at 3PM leaves about 4 hours left for that day. Saturday night and day, Sunday night and Sunday at sunrise, even if it happenned at first light, you include that day. So 3 days. But not 3 nights though. ??

 

[Aunty Jane]

You could be right, you could be wrong. We won't know till we get to heaven. but the star was no star! Stars don't hover, they don't come to rest over a house, they do not travel north-south . No the start I am convinced was the shecinah glory of God leading the maji to the house (not the stable ) where th eyoung child Jesus was at.

Since this star could not have been an ordinary star, and since it attracted the attention of pagan astrologers (“magi” is where we get the word “magic”, the practice of which was condemned in God’s Law, Deut 18:9-12) don’t we have to ask first where this “star” originated?

It led the magi to Jerusalem first, and alerted the King who was a wicked man intent on maintaining his own dynasty in his kingship over the Jews. Immediately he set about finding this new “king of the Jews” to destroy him. After gaining his information, the “star” moved in the sky and led the magi, not just to Bethlehem, but it stopped right above the “house” where Jesus, (now, no longer a newborn, but a young child) was living with his parents.

To imply that this was anything but a satanic plot is to ignore the details. God alerted his own people about Jesus’ birth. Angels appeared Jewish shepherds who were tending their flocks outdoors at night, ruling out a December birth. Shepherds kept their valuable flocks indoors on winter nights. It was these who went to the stable, not the magi.

To glorify this event.....the visit of pagan astrologers, and a star that was used to identify the child that Herod wanted to murder....is to ignore what the Bible says. The magi were unwitting dupes, used by Satan (the originator of their religion) to get Jesus killed. Their visit resulted in the murder of countless innocent children, “2 years of age and under”. If God had sent the star, that would make him complicit in the murder of all those babies.

As a side point....Jews did not celebrate birthdays because of their association with astrology and the practice of magic. That is why there are no birthdates ever recorded in the Bible. Dates were important to the Jews as their yearly festivals and their Passover were held at certain times of the year...these dates are clearly identified. But the only two birthdays recorded in scripture were both pagan rulers, and someone lost their life at the celebrant’s hand. The latter being Herod who had John the Baptist beheaded.

Seeing this whole scenario from God’s perspective and understanding that nothing He ever commanded his people to do, could be hijacked by the devil and turned into a disgusting circus....for many, nothing more than an excuse for gluttony and drunkenness.....a commercial ‘greedfest’ of mammoth proportions.

December 25th was an important date for the pagan Romans....but not to the Jews or the first Christians.
All the traditions of the Roman saturnalia and northern hemisphere paganism were incorporated and transferred over to become the “traditions” of Christmas.

Christ never celebrated his own birthday, nor would it have ever been part of Jewish life to do so.
Christmas is not a Christian celebration....it never was.

 

[liafailrock]

Why 80? And I also remember hearing that 153 was the same number of miracles Jesus performed. ???
But the elect? The Church is the elect numbering in the billions.
Also heard if the arhumwnt that Jesus must have died on a Wed or Thurs. I think it was 3 days inclusive, and probably 40 hours. Dying on Friday at 3PM leaves about 4 hours left for that day. Saturday night and day, Sunday night and Sunday at sunrise, even if it happenned at first light, you include that day. So 3 days. But not 3 nights though. ??

153 miracles would make sense and cast some light on 12240. We would do greater things because he went to the father so what the Lord did was a smaller factor of his whole life. 80 is double testing. (40 x 2).

As for the timing that he died, Matthew 12:40 is key and having to be arisen Sabbath Sundown to fulfil the feast of Firstfruits, hence 3 days and 3 nights earlier would be the same time of the day. There is debate whether he was talking about the time that he died until he arose again, or whether he was referring to the time in the grave. Either way, we are only haggling over a few hours from late afternoon until sundown-- the same time of the day essentially.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

153 miracles would make sense and cast some light on 12240. We would do greater things because he went to the father so what the Lord did was a smaller factor of his whole life. 80 is double testing. (40 x 2).

As for the timing that he died, Matthew 12:40 is key and having to be arisen Sabbath Sundown to fulfil the feast of Firstfruits, hence 3 days and 3 nights earlier would be the same time of the day. There is debate whether he was talking about the time that he died until he arose again, or whether he was referring to the time in the grave. Either way, we are only haggling over a few hours from late afternoon until sundown-- the same time of the day essentially.

All gospels state that it was dawn that the women were on there way. Dawn is about 25 minutes. Mayne that had a longer what but certainly arrived just arrive sunrise and minutes from the Reaaurection
When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb."

 

[liafailrock]

All gospels state that it was dawn that the women were on there way. Dawn is about 25 minutes. Mayne that had a longer what but certainly arrived just arrive sunrise and minutes from the Reaaurection
When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb."

Yes that is correct. Jesus was long gone by then. It was even dark when they came. Did you try calculating the birth date and death date based on those 3 premises? It is interesting and the results I got were very amazing.