Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

[ScottA]

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

The body of the Head Jesus Christ, cannot possibly be with any members having sin.

Does the sinless Head Jesus Christ minister sin for members to have? God forbid. Can any member of the body of the sinless Christ, have sin ministered from the Head? God forbid. Can any member of the body of Jesus Christ have sin, that is not ministered from His sinless Headship? No possible way.

There may be tares in His churches, but not of His body.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

The ministry of Jesus Christ is certainly effectual in ministering His word without sin to His body and all His members therein. Those however who hear His word and repent not of their sinning, have no part in Him nor His body ministered sinlessly by Him.

The gospel that ministers sinning to the body, to have sin in the body, is not the gospel of the Head Jesus Christ.

Sorry in advance for being harsh, but you are in need of correction.

You are stumbling over the timing...which does not actually exist, and yet it has become your reasoning and your gospel. Which is to say, you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth for not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

In other words, you know that we who are Christ's "were" crucified with Him, meaning that there is actually (biblically) no notation of time regarding being "in Christ" and sinless. Thus, it is written: "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation"--again without any notation of time other than "now." And yet you preach that many of those who come to believe in Christ and answering His knock on the door continue to sin as if they would have had to be born, lived, and died with Him during His time in order to be saved "with" Him as His body, even though most were not even born then, but nonetheless "were" saved in spite of your not reconciling the times, which you do by leaning on your own understanding.

And what of those who lived and died before salvation came, are their sins counted against them because they too continued to sin in the flesh until death? You condemn them--but God has not. They are "the dead in Christ" who died in their sin and were not saved until "in Christ" as they too "were" crucified with Christ--without regard to the times according to the keeping of it by men, just as you are now doing.

Even so, against what you preach, Christ was actually crucified before the times of men even began, and all who are His with Him. Meaning that the timing by which you base your accusations, is of no bearing on one's salvation. But you are a prisoner of time and therefore preach a false gospel for lack of understanding. Fortunately, God who saves is not a prisoner of time and does not keep it as you do.

But now you have been told. Stop preaching what you do not understand. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Ghada]

You misunderstand.

It is not Christ's own sin that He carried or carries in His body, but rather as it is written, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Though this is a fair point, it has nothing to do with the argument at hand. 1 John 3 says that there is no sin in Him, which is now after His death, burial, and resurrection. And so there is no sin in His body now, that is crucified with Him to sin and raised in newness of His life of righteousness and true holiness.

This is not only for them in His presence above, but also is the same for the members of His body on earth, which are our souls, spirits, and bodies that are now God's.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Our bodies are now Christ's on earth and of God, not of the world nor of sin nor of Satan.

But when did the sin that Christ became end?

He became sin on the cross by the Father forsaking His soul, and was no more sin when the Spirit revived Him on the cross.

After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

This is when the Spirit departed Him, and He became sin by separation from God.

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

This is when He paid the full price for all sins of the world, and He revived in the Spirit, and so said it was finished.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

His soul was revived on the cross, and His body was revived on the third day.

When the Holy Spirit descended and remained on Him...or when He died?

As though He was made to be sin before the Spirit descend on Him? Who would even suggest such a thing?

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus never 'became sin' as you say, nor a sinner, which is only by sinning. As with Adam men only become sin to God and sinners separated from God by sinning. (Rom 5:12)

He was made to be sin for us by paying the price for sin. For our sakes He suffered the price of sin in separation from the Father.

He did not become sin, nor have sin, nor knew sin, because He never sinned Himself.

What He knew was what it was like to be a sinner separated from God, not what it was to be a sinner that knows sin by doing it.

And He also bore the world's sins in His body only by dying.

Jesus did not become a sinner on the cross, because He never sinned on earth. Men become sinners only by sinning, even as Adam. All men have indeed become sinners of the devil, because all men have sinned against God.

But Jesus the 2nd Adam never sinned and so was never a sinner nor had sin.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

This includes His whole life in the flesh from cradle to grave.

He cam in flesh of men that sin, and also knew the separation from God of men that sin, but He did not sin like sinful men.

Even during His soul's separation from the Spirit of Life on the cross, He still did not sin by falling to the temptation of the devil, which was to come down prematurely from the cross in sight of men, and to revile them reviling Him.

And if our sin on Him did not end until He died on the cross,

Once again, our sin was not on Him, but only borne in His body by death. It's a distinction with a very real difference, because He did not sin and so did no have sin in Himself, that is in His soul and life, as sinners.

when shall it also end in us who follow Him?

Before repenting and following Him of course. No unrepented sinner is following the sinless Christ Jesus. They are following blind christs and guides into the ditch.

Sin ends in any man that repents of lust and sin, and believe God's gospel to be made a whole new creature in Christ Jesus, so that even as He, all things are now of God with nothing remaining of sin and Satan.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

No sinner is in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin.

I submit that just as Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world, the enactment of which came later, that we also who's sin was paid for on the cross which for many came even before our time, does not end until the death of the flesh,

Then having sin unto death of the body, you are preaching sinful members of another head and body, than that of Jesus Christ.

Is Jesus Christ the Head sinless with His own body full of sin? God forbid. Is the sinless Head separated by sin from His own body? God forbid.

 

[Ghada]

Sorry in advance for being harsh, but you are in need of correction.

Is Jesus Christ the Head sinless with His own body full of sin? God forbid. Is the sinless Head separated by sin from His own body? God forbid.

This needs no correction nor arguing for. It's self explanatory from the Bible.

You are stumbling over the timing...which does not actually exist, and yet it has become your reasoning and your gospel. Which is to say, you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth for not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

I don't go into unreal things. The time Jesus hung on the cross, was the time He did so. The time I repented of sinning to believe His gospel, was the time I did so.

Right now, the time is 3:45 pm, my time. And I am still repented of sinning to believe and body Jesus.

And at no time in heaven nor on earth does the sinless Head Jesus Christ ever have any sinning member of His body, not in His presence in heaven nor in His church on earth.

In other words, you know that we who are Christ's "were" crucified with Him, meaning that there is actually (biblically) no notation of time regarding being "in Christ" and sinless.

It's called being in Christ then and now. First by repenting of sinning, being made wholly new and pure as Himself, and continuing therein by keeping ourselves clean and unspotted from the world.

Including at this time for me at least: 3:48 pm local time, and counting...

Thus, it is written: "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation"--again without any notation of time other than "now."

Now, this I do agree with, in that the past is gone as of 1 second ago, and tomorrow may not come.

Now is the only time that matters to God, whereby He is judging our works. And our last work in this life is judged by the Father, without respect of persons. (1 Peter 1)

And yet you preach that many of those who come to believe in Christ and answering His knock on the door continue to sin

The unrepentant haven't yet opened the door to His gospel voice and knock. Repenting of sinning in obedience to God's commandment to all men, and believing His gospel is opening the door to Him.

as if they would have had to be born, lived, and died with Him

We can be be born and live with Him, but not die with Him. All sinning of angels and me is done without Him.

Which is why there is no sinning member of His body, wherein is no sin in Him.

and therefore preach a false gospel for lack of understanding.

I certainly don't preach yours, if yours includes the sinless Head of Christ having at any time any sinful bone in His body.

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

That includes all the time in His own flesh and blood on earth, which includes while on the cross.

 

[Ghada]

during His time in order to be saved "with" Him as His body, even though most were not even born then, but nonetheless "were" saved in spite of your not reconciling the times, which you do by leaning on your own understanding.

How can anyone be saved without hearing Jesus' gospel?

I know there are some Christian sinners so zealous of ensuring they enter into His kingdom while sinning through faith alone, so that they say all men will enter therein.

And what of those who lived and died before salvation came, are their sins counted against them because they too continued to sin in the flesh until death?

You condemn them--but God has not.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

You'll have to take that up with God and Jesus Christ.

I don't get into vain questions about 'what of those never heard'.

They are "the dead in Christ" who died in their sin and were not saved until "in Christ" as they too "were" crucified with Christ--without regard to the times according to the keeping of it by men, just as you are now doing.

Your gospel has gone off the rails here. The dead in Christ are the righteous that left this world in favor with God. The first man, so far as we can tell in the Bible, being righteous Abel.

Even so, against what you preach, Christ was actually crucified before the times of men even began,

The Lamb of God was not slain on a cross, until the Word was made flesh, and died on a cross.

Foreordained planning of God is sure and steadfast, that it would happen 0on earth as He prophesies before the world began.

and all who are His with Him. Meaning that the timing by which you base your accusations, is of no bearing on one's salvation.

I think you are trying to preach all men will be saved in the end.

But you are a prisoner of time

My body certainly is, and so is my soul and life in this world, so long as my body lives.

But I am no more a prisoner in this life to the world, but a prisoner of Christ Jesus to do His will only.

Fortunately, God who saves is not a prisoner of time and does not keep it as you do.

Your preaching of repenting and being saved after the grave, goes along with the Christian sinners that preach being born anew with all things of God, only after the grave.

If you are trying to eliminate the timeline on earth to repent, then I see what you are saying, and of course disagree with it as having anything to do with the Bible.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Now and today means now and today on earth. Space to repent is now and today, since tomorrow may not come. There is no acceptable time to repent of sinning after the grave, and I might add any need of repentance in and from the womb.

Man being created and made sinners from the womb by the devil is not Bible. And Christ certainly isn't the one doing it.

Nor is there any need of repenting for the holy members of His body, who now have no sin in Him to repent of.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Tomorrow may not come at all, but we can ensure it will be no different, so long as what we are doing now today does not change for the worse to lust and sin again.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

But now you have been told.

Right. Still mostly disagree.

Your effort to have every man saved in the end is a little unique, but just as Bibleless as that of others.

God's space now and today to repent of sinning and believe His gospel, is not lifted from time on earth beyond the grave, to an eternal aetherville, until every man repents.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Nor do I see any Hindu reincarnation in the Bible, until the soul finally gets it right.

My advice to you, if you want to be understood more quickly and clearly, is to first write a brief thesis statement. And then go on with all your doctrinal phraseology afterward.

That's what I do. I first say what I mean, and then go on to proving it by the Bible. And I try to do that by simply saying what the Bible means in it's own words.

 

[GracePeace]

The Bible declares there is no sin in the man Christ Jesus, which must include His own body members, else the Head be separated from His body, and His body be decapitated from the Head.

The Christian gospel of unrepented sinners with a Christ whose body is full of sinful members, is a gospel separated the sinless Head Jesus Christ.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Such Christian sinners that say they shall have, or must have, or it is impossible not to have sin in them, also have for themselves a gospel and head, that is more than glad to have sin in him and his own body.

I say, let's dispense with all the doctrinal airs and say it like it is: There is no sin in the man Christ Jesus, which includes His own body.

That is not only a Biblical fact, but a huge duh! for any sensible person, that does not believe in headless bodies nor horsemen. Nor in a Frankenstein monster with a different head sewn onto another body.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

This is not talking about sinful members of a body on earth, that is separated by sin from the sinless Head in heaven, until resurrected into that Head Christ Jesus after the grave.

The man and Head Christ Jesus has His body of His flesh and of His bones, whose only members are repented Christian saints. Only them that now have the sins of the world washed and taken away from our hearts and lives, are members of the body of Jesus Christ, in whom is no sin.

Some Christians also preach that being sons of God pure and newborn as His Son Jesus, with all things now being of God, and nothing of sin and Satan remaining in them, does not happen until after the grave.

Unfortunately then, in the Bible there is no repenting of sinning granted in the grave, but only judgment of our works we lived by unto the end.

If Christians sinners want to prophecy their own fate of sinful dead works unto death, and in the meantime congregate as sinful members of a body of sin on earth, then that is their right as free will creatures created by God.

But claiming to also be sinful members of the sinless Head Jesus Christ, in whom is no sin, makes no sense on earth, whether spiritual or religious. The Spirit of Christ and of the truth of God, is not dysfunctionally operating Jesus' way sinlessly in the mind and Head of Christ, while operating the world's way sinfully in His own body members.

The Head Jesus Christ having no sin does not have a worldly body with sin. The only head for a sinful worldly body is the head of this world, that does certainly have sin in him.

It's a good point, actually.

You will undoubtedly hear the retort, "Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus! Romans 8:1!"

Unfortunately, virtually no one is serious in their Bible reading. An elementary school student could look at the word "therefore", and understand that what ever came before is going to be important in understanding this.

What came before?
He described life under the rule of Sin, which was a slave master (Ro 6:14), when he was "in the flesh" and "under Law", and how he cried out for a deliverer, and found this in the person of Christ. THEREFORE, those who are walking after the Spirit, who are remaining in Christ, are not condemned, because they are no longer slaves of sin, but fulfilling the Law's righteous requirements (Ro 8:4)!

And what about Christians who do not walk after the Spirit, but who sin by doing things they do not believe are correct?
They are "condemned" (Ro 14:23).
"Condemned" is the opposite of "justified".

Now, how can there be both "no condemnation", but, also, "condemnation"?
It seems the answer is this: there is no condemnation for those who abide in Him, but they are not abiding in Christ when they are not acting in faith.
"So, now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears
we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at his coming." 1 Jn 2:28
So, it seems like actions must be in faith. Just the same as James teaches.
Revelation 3 warns the Laodiceans they are "naked".
Revelation 16 says if you are "naked" you will be ashamed.
Revelation 19 says the "clothing" is good deeds.

I'm not saying I understand all of these things, but it really seems like we must walk after the Spirit to qualify as abiding in Christ and have no condemnation. If we sin, God forgives, yes, but it seems good deeds are one of the qualifications for abiding in Christ. The other is faith, yes, but I think after faith, works done in faith are expected. If not, you will be naked, and you will be ashamed at His appearance, because you were not abiding in Him, but led away by idolatry (1 Jn 5:21).

If I am wrong, I am wrong, but show me a better interpretation of these things if you have one.

 

[ScottA]

Though this is a fair point, it has nothing to do with the argument at hand. 1 John 3 says that there is no sin in Him, which is now after His death, burial, and resurrection. And so there is no sin in His body now, that is crucified with Him to sin and raised in newness of His life of righteousness and true holiness.

This is not only for them in His presence above, but also is the same for the members of His body on earth, which are our souls, spirits, and bodies that are now God's.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Our bodies are now Christ's on earth and of God, not of the world nor of sin nor of Satan.

I deny none of that. The problem is that you have denied that those saved do not continue in the flesh to sin...which is not represented by what Jesus did (by example) between rising from the dead and ascending, during which time He was not guilty of any sin but still showed the signs of sin in His flesh. The same is true of us who are "in Him"-- we are crucified, dead to sin, born again of the spirit of God, but continue to carry the signs of sin in our flesh until we also ascend to the Father.

He became sin on the cross by the Father forsaking His soul, and was no more sin when the Spirit revived Him on the cross.

After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

This is when the Spirit departed Him, and He became sin by separation from God.

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

This is when He paid the full price for all sins of the world, and He revived in the Spirit, and so said it was finished.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

His soul was revived on the cross, and His body was revived on the third day.

Here your timing is off. Jesus did not "revive" on the cross. He died and rose/revived from the dead the third day.

 

[ScottA]

As though He was made to be sin before the Spirit descend on Him? Who would even suggest such a thing?

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus never 'became sin' as you say, nor a sinner, which is only by sinning. As with Adam men only become sin to God and sinners separated from God by sinning. (Rom 5:12)

He was made to be sin for us by paying the price for sin. For our sakes He suffered the price of sin in separation from the Father.

He did not become sin, nor have sin, nor knew sin, because He never sinned Himself.

What He knew was what it was like to be a sinner separated from God, not what it was to be a sinner that knows sin by doing it.

And He also bore the world's sins in His body only by dying.

Jesus did not become a sinner on the cross, because He never sinned on earth. Men become sinners only by sinning, even as Adam. All men have indeed become sinners of the devil, because all men have sinned against God.

But Jesus the 2nd Adam never sinned and so was never a sinner nor had sin.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

This includes His whole life in the flesh from cradle to grave.

He cam in flesh of men that sin, and also knew the separation from God of men that sin, but He did not sin like sinful men.

Even during His soul's separation from the Spirit of Life on the cross, He still did not sin by falling to the temptation of the devil, which was to come down prematurely from the cross in sight of men, and to revile them reviling Him.

I was not suggesting, but asked a two-part question-- which yes, wouldn't make any since if you spilt them up as you have.

Next.

 

[ScottA]

Once again, our sin was not on Him, but only borne in His body by death. It's a distinction with a very real difference, because He did not sin and so did no have sin in Himself, that is in His soul and life, as sinners.


Before repenting and following Him of course. No unrepented sinner is following the sinless Christ Jesus. They are following blind christs and guides into the ditch.

Sin ends in any man that repents of lust and sin, and believe God's gospel to be made a whole new creature in Christ Jesus, so that even as He, all things are now of God with nothing remaining of sin and Satan.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

No sinner is in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin.

Once again you are splitting up points that were given to you together as one point. In which case it is no wonder that you error.

Yes, it is an error to say that Jesus did not take our sin upon Himself...as He drank the cup (which was our sin) placed upon Him by the Father.

As for not repenting of sins, I have said nothing of the sort.

As for your repeated statement: "No sinner is in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin"-- This is your error and misunderstanding, as you have not factored in Jesus carrying the signs of sin from the cross to His ascension, which being "40 days" is no coincidence--because it represents the lifetime of all men by their generation. The words are spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Is Jesus Christ the Head sinless with His own body full of sin? God forbid. Is the sinless Head separated by sin from His own body? God forbid.

This needs no correction nor arguing for. It's self explanatory from the Bible.

Yes, it does indeed need correction, and I just did in the last post.

 

[ScottA]

Is Jesus Christ the Head sinless with His own body full of sin? God forbid. Is the sinless Head separated by sin from His own body? God forbid.

This needs no correction nor arguing for. It's self explanatory from the Bible.

Yes, it does indeed need correction, and I just did in the last post.

I don't go into unreal things. The time Jesus hung on the cross, was the time He did so. The time I repented of sinning to believe His gospel, was the time I did so.

Right now, the time is 3:45 pm, my time. And I am still repented of sinning to believe and body Jesus.

And at no time in heaven nor on earth does the sinless Head Jesus Christ ever have any sinning member of His body, not in His presence in heaven nor in His church on earth.

One the contrary, you just did ("go into unreal things") by giving the time, which does not exist within God, as He "is the same, yesterday, today, and forever." It is God which is real, while created things are merely created.

 

[ScottA]

It's called being in Christ then and now. First by repenting of sinning, being made wholly new and pure as Himself, and continuing therein by keeping ourselves clean and unspotted from the world.

Including at this time for me at least: 3:48 pm local time, and counting...


Now, this I do agree with, in that the past is gone as of 1 second ago, and tomorrow may not come.

Now is the only time that matters to God, whereby He is judging our works. And our last work in this life is judged by the Father, without respect of persons. (1 Peter 1)


The unrepentant haven't yet opened the door to His gospel voice and knock. Repenting of sinning in obedience to God's commandment to all men, and believing His gospel is opening the door to Him.

We can be be born and live with Him, but not die with Him. All sinning of angels and me is done without Him.

Which is why there is no sinning member of His body, wherein is no sin in Him.


I certainly don't preach yours, if yours includes the sinless Head of Christ having at any time any sinful bone in His body.

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

That includes all the time in His own flesh and blood on earth, which includes while on the cross.

You are not getting the reality of God and the things of God being without time. As I said, you are stumbling over the timing, when time doesn't actually tick within God or the things of God.

In which case, you are trying to translate the higher truth of God into the lower untruth and terms of man and this world to suit your own lesser understanding...and you have failed. You can't piece God's actual truth together with the fragments you have gather from this world...without just ending up with a ball of clay...and that is what you have done.

Which means you either continue with your bits of clay and your own understanding, or humble yourself and realize that the revelation of His actual truth is not going to agree with what you have imagined. You would do better to be asking questions, than making statements. Either way, I am not going to say what is untrue regardless of how much clay you mound up.

 

[ScottA]

How can anyone be saved without hearing Jesus' gospel?

I know there are some Christian sinners so zealous of ensuring they enter into His kingdom while sinning through faith alone, so that they say all men will enter therein.

Now that's a question. Good.

The saved of all Israel were saved before the gospel of Jesus...by believing the promises of God about His coming. Conversely, after His coming we too are saved by believing--not by believing that He is coming, but that He came. In both cases, one hears from God and if they believe, they shall be saved.

All will not enter in. But you are referring rather to those who walk the walk but have never actually come to know God, are not born of God but walk in the world believing in the things of this world. Incidentally, one of the things of this world that many who do not know God and are not of God believe in, is time...as if the things of this world were the makings of heaven when they are not, but are only manifestations like fool's gold, before the Judgement.

 

[ScottA]

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

You'll have to take that up with God and Jesus Christ.

I don't get into vain questions about 'what of those never heard'.

Read each thought in full. You are braking paragraphs up into fragments and loosing the point.

That was not a "vain question" but a question to prompt you to think and see that your knowledge is not complete and does not reconcile with God complete plan of salvation and all who are in Christ. Much of the accounts of Israel foreshadow the things concerning the salvation of the Gentiles...as it is written, "I will keep you and give you as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles."

 

[ScottA]

Your gospel has gone off the rails here. The dead in Christ are the righteous that left this world in favor with God. The first man, so far as we can tell in the Bible, being righteous Abel.

It is not my gospel that Christ died for those to whom Messiah was promised but died before His coming. That is the gospel of all who are in Christ, both the dead and the living.

As it is written, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

 

[ScottA]

The Lamb of God was not slain on a cross, until the Word was made flesh, and died on a cross.

Foreordained planning of God is sure and steadfast, that it would happen 0on earth as He prophesies before the world began.

That is the thinking of time-bound men, but the things of God are "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Even a man can conceive in his mind an image and then paint it or write of it, but it is not the image or the words that are real. You have not given God credit for being God and have only imagined Him to do according to what your limited understanding can conceive. But no, what is written in the Word of God was first "the same yesterday, today, and forever" before it ever began to be made manifest to men. That is why from the beginning God referred to the creation of mankind as a mere "image."

Stop drawing conclusions based on your finite understanding.

 

[ScottA]

I think you are trying to preach all men will be saved in the end.

I have told you differently.

 

[ScottA]

My body certainly is, and so is my soul and life in this world, so long as my body lives.

But I am no more a prisoner in this life to the world, but a prisoner of Christ Jesus to do His will only.

That is a start. But do you expect to do His will according to your own understanding and making claims about of God based on the things of men and this world?

You can't.

But as it is written, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth." That is--if you can be guided. So far you are not doing so well.

 

[ScottA]

Your preaching of repenting and being saved after the grave, goes along with the Christian sinners that preach being born anew with all things of God, only after the grave.

If you are trying to eliminate the timeline on earth to repent, then I see what you are saying, and of course disagree with it as having anything to do with the Bible.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Now and today means now and today on earth. Space to repent is now and today, since tomorrow may not come. There is no acceptable time to repent of sinning after the grave, and I might add any need of repentance in and from the womb.

Man being created and made sinners from the womb by the devil is not Bible. And Christ certainly isn't the one doing it.

Nor is there any need of repenting for the holy members of His body, who now have no sin in Him to repent of.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Tomorrow may not come at all, but we can ensure it will be no different, so long as what we are doing now today does not change for the worse to lust and sin again.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I have not preached "repenting and being saved after the grave." Wrong from the first sentence.

 

[amadeus]

Joh 3:30

He must increase, but I must decrease.

The Baptist realized that he needed a new head as his own head like all of the carnal heads of men could not lead him to the Life that Jesus was bringing.

Jer 10:23

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Remember what Jesus said about his own head?

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

At that point there was no Body ready with all perfected parts upon which the perfect Head [Jesus] was able to lay down to rest... no place fitting to abide. No man had been redeemed. No man was properly attired. Is anyone today ready to be part of the Body?

The Baptist likely did not know that he would provide a type or shadow for the followers for Christ when his own stand for God caused him to lose his own carnal head to an executioner's axe. Do we need to lose our head so that it may be replaced with Jesus?

The Baptist spoke the words God gave him to speak in the above cited verse perhaps without complete understanding of it.

See here Paul's words;

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; ..." I Cor 11:3

When Christ is our Head and it is all "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." [I Cor 1:10], then will He have a place to lay his Head and the Body of Christ might become complete.

Did not David write about the same thing centuries before Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem?

"Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:3-5

And God revealed the answer to him in that same Psalm:

For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

"Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house [body?] will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?" Acts 7:49

The place to rest His Head is Zion, which is the "highest place" or even the once "dry and desert place"... to be watered and full of Life, which is the Body of Christ, which may be all of us who believe and follow God... if we are no longer a dry and desert place but a fertile place or "good ground, properly watered and nourished.

Mt 13:8	But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mt 13:9	Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The Body of Christ:

"For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." Rom 12:4-5

So then with this Body of Christ will not Jesus have a place to lay his Head?

 

[GracePeace]

The saved of all Israel were saved before the gospel of Jesus...by believing the promises of God about His coming. Conversely, after His coming we too are saved by believing--not by believing that He is coming, but that He came. In both cases, one hears from God and if they believe, they shall be saved.

With all respect, one clarification: They weren't "saved" in the same way that we are "saved".

Hebrews 11:40
39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive [aa]what was promised, 40because God had [ab]provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

They were "righteous" by faith, but this did not constitute the "perfection" that came through the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 12:23
23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood...

Hebrews 10:11-14
11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.