Church Bashing

[stunnedbygrace]

How will Sodoms torment for eternity be more tolerable than some others torment for eternity?
Are there good neighborhoods and ghettos in the LOF?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Mar 1:24 - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

DESTROY them. Destroy means torment forever, right?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Eze 28:18 - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Eze 28:19 - All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

A heap of ashes, devoured, never shalt thou be anymore.

Yep, tortured for eternity, right?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

2Th 2:8 - And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Destroy.
It means torture forever, right?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And all of the clinging for dear life to Eternal Torment For Eternity despite the fact that there is only one way to eternal life, and it isn't wickedness.

 

[Wrangler]

But there most certainly is a "doctrinal Purity test".

No. There is no doctrinal purity test for salvation. Sanctification, different story. There be the divisiveness.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jde 1:5 - I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Destroyed them that believed not. But only until He raises them for judgement after which they will not be destroyed/die again but will be given eternal life so they can be tormented for eternity.

 

[JohnPaul]

If you are not defending church bashing, my mistake. My apologies.

No I am not bashing churches where did you get that idea?

Edit: Only churches who promote the acceptance of unrepentant homosexuals and the LGTB movement.

P.S. I want to make this clear @Wrangler

 

[BarneyFife]

IF.

I invoke the word to reinforce the pathway to destruction of the 1st sinner, Satan. His sin was pride, leading to a God complex. Who the hell did Satan think he is? God.

This led to his separation from God. Some say that is what hell is. What do you say?

I say: "Good show."

And, you should probably be advised that if you insist on using expressions that most Christians consider profanity, it's likely to be harder to reach the people I assume you're trying to reach. Up to you, entirely, though.

Judging doctrine is not what this thread is about.

It may not have been the intent of the OP, but why pretend that's not what it always becomes? We never seem to be able to collectively agree where the fine line is between reproval and condemnation. One could argue that this issue alone largely fuels the majority of discussion forum-wide. Otherwise, we'd all be extolling the matchless charms of The LORD Jesus. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

Death means SEPARATION. Physical death = separation of soul and spirit from the body. Second death = eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire.

Death means cessation of life—even in the Bible. :)

 

[Enoch111]

Death means cessation of life—even in the Bible.

And cessation of life occurs when the soul and spirit depart from the body. This is elementary Bible knowledge: And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. (Gen 35:18,19)

Cessation of life means that the soul departs from -- separates from -- the body. If you really want the truth (instead of trying to defend your false beliefs) please go to my thread in the theology forum and study the matter properly.
Why are so many Christians still so confused about the afterlife?

 

[Taken]

It is not his place to judge other believers and certainly not to bash churches under any pretext. That is his trespass. It gives Christians a bad name.

Who the hell does he think he is?

JohnPaul has already revealed WHO he is.
JohnPaul has already revealed WHO he is in Agreement WITH.

Maybe you should take up your complaint WITH Jesus whom JohnPaul Stands WITH.
Lecture Jesus about what He DID.

Matt 23:
[1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

(Hint...
The Pharisees were ANY men who SIT teaching and preaching in a House dedicated to God.
The Scribes were ANY men who HEAR what the Clerics teach and preach and REPEAT what they SAY in Agreement.)

[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[18] And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[20] Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
[21] And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
[22] And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Ya think Jesus was a Trespasser?....a Basher?....Gave the Temple or Temple attenders a bad name?

 

[Lambano]

And all of the clinging for dear life to Eternal Torment For Eternity despite the fact that there is only one way to eternal life, and it isn't wickedness.

Keep going, my friend. You're doing fine.

 

[BarneyFife]

And cessation of life occurs when the soul and spirit depart from the body. This is elementary Bible knowledge: And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. (Gen 35:18,19)

Cessation of life means that the soul departs from -- separates from -- the body. If you really want the truth (instead of trying to defend your false beliefs) please go to my thread in the theology forum and study the matter properly.
Why are so many Christians still so confused about the afterlife?

I'm sure the thread is very substantial and quite lively, but I tend to lean towards Bible Study rather than Hellenistic Duality-driven Theological hobby horsemanship, notwithstanding its immense popularity. I used to believe the same way as you, and was "reformed" from it 31 years ago. I found a truly systematic Theology that I can wrap my head around, you know? I'm very much at peace with it--more than I can say, actually. I'm glad you are so strong and satisfied with your own belief system. I believe you have a heart for God. And I've come to value your input in other matters, especially, very much here. :)

In all sincerity, though, how do you know for sure that you're not, conscientiously and with a pure heart, trying to defend beliefs that are false in this case? Is it completely impossible? Good, conscientious Christians do it every day.

Body plus breath equals soul.

Genesis 2:7 Parallel: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When it comes to deciding on matters that seem to have ample evidence for two or more positions, I usually favor the one that supports the overall theme of the Bible that God is Love. It seems to make them harmonize most orderly and beautifully. :)

Peace to you

 

[David H.]

No. There is no doctrinal purity test for salvation. Sanctification, different story. There be the divisiveness.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (Galatians 1:6)

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (1 John 5:12)

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (Ephesians 4:5)

You either got the right Jesus and the right Gospel, or the wrong Jesus and the wrong Gospel. Simple as that.

 

[Lambano]

I don’t think a holy person, a person actually walking IN the Spirit, would say someone who cast out demons was working by satans power. I wouldn’t call those men holy…

I shouldn't have sassed you, my friend, even though you don't (yet) understand how broken women and men like you and me can also be holy, set apart for God's purposes. Like so, so many, I think your friend only sees in the glass darkly. Not his fault; it's the human condition, which is why I extend grace and hope to have grace extended to me. I gave you some scriptures to ponder.

Later, I may want to take up again whether Father withholds the medicine from the children, or whether the children refuse the medicine that could heal them. Right now, you have your hands full. I can only pray you persuade some to take, eat the Matzoh. And if God is using you now to tell the truth about His character, is that not a Holy purpose? If you are now walking in the Spirit, does that not make you in a sense, Holy?

(Mrs. Carlson, my high school English Composition teacher, would be appalled at how many metaphors I mixed in this post. I count three, maybe four, possibly five.)

 

[Brakelite]

But I am disturbed by the Christians on this forum who put themselves as judge - over people and doctrine.

KJV Romans 16:17
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
How do we mark some whose doctrine is contrary to scripture, without judging their doctrine?

Church bashing ≠ rebuking those you love in Christ.

No. But what about exposing the gross doctrinal errors of churches that leads to sin? Like with these guys...

It was their personal, moral behavior that got them in trouble, not their doctrine.

...whose doctrines clearly affected their personal moral values, and likely in their teachings passing on those human devised moral benchmark to their congregations.

Second death = eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire.

You are advocating some form of life in eternity...a life that communicates, feels pain, anguish, suffering, despair. What you are doing is granting an attribute of God...
KJV 1 Timothy 6:16
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
...to man. Again, you are publishing the lies of Satan to the world.KJV Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The knowing good and evil means deciding without God our moral benchmark. In other words, doing away with scripture, with his Commandments, and dictating compromise and lawlessness. 3 satanic lies preached from pulpits since the fall. You're 2 for 2. That 3rd one applies to those preachers mentioned above. Abd all 3 to the Vatican.

 

[Brakelite]

@Enoch111
I would add to this....

You are advocating some form of life in eternity...a life that communicates, feels pain, anguish, suffering, despair. What you are doing is granting an attribute of God...
KJV 1 Timothy 6:16
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
...to man. Again, you are publishing the lies of Satan to the world.KJV Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The knowing good and evil means deciding without God our moral benchmark. In other words, doing away with scripture, with his Commandments, and dictating compromise and lawlessness. 3 satanic lies preached from pulpits since the fall. You're 2 for 2. That 3rd one applies to those preachers mentioned above. And all 3 to the Vatican.

That you are proposing that death is separation from God. In a sense I agree, but you do not appreciate how reliant on God we are for life. All life. If we are completely separated from God, as Jesus was from His Father at Calvary, then death is certainly the only inevitable result. But unless man is naturally immortal, which the scripture absolutely contradicts, then God is actively sustaining life for those in torment...an idea that if the character of God is taken into consideration, is utterly unsustainable. God giving life in order to torment? Where then is the separation?

 

[Lambano]

I would add to @Backlit's comment that even if human souls were naturally immortal (which Backlit has demonstrated that scripturally they do not), a God who can whip up a universe from scratch ex nihilo can also return a soul back to the nothingness. (Matthew 10:28)

 

[Wrangler]

KJV Romans 16:17
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
How do we mark some whose doctrine is contrary to scripture, without judging their doctrine?

I reject the premise of your question. Scripture talks about offenses contrary to doctrine, not contrary doctrine. Scripture talks about judging action and choices - not beliefs - as the basis for marking.

In addition, Scripture is talking about marking individuals, not whole churches. Finally, Scripture is not condoning church bashing.

The repeated diluting of the topic reveals man's deep seated desire to judge others even when Scripture explicitly tells you not to do it.

Church Bashing > Judging doctrine > Judging individual bad behavior