Church Bashing

[BarneyFife]

In physical death, our body is separated from our breath.

Genesis 2:7 Parallel: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[marks]

In physical death, our body is separated from our breath.

Genesis 2:7 Parallel: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

In physical death, our soul separates from our body.

Genesis 35:18 YLT
And it cometh to pass in the going out of her soul (for she died), that she calleth his name Ben-Oni; and his father called him Benjamin;

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Such drama!

Such helpful posts!

 

[marks]

Such helpful posts!

That's kinda my point . . .

 

[marks]

Mischaracterizations to embue someone else's ideas with your own derision of those ideas is a vanity that amuses one's self.

 

[BarneyFife]

In physical death, our soul separates from our body.

Genesis 35:18 YLT
And it cometh to pass in the going out of her soul (for she died), that she calleth his name Ben-Oni; and his father called him Benjamin;

Much love!

When a light goeth out, there is no separation. It simply stops working. :)

 

[Lambano]

The await their judgment in sheol, not annihilated, dead, but not non-existent.

You need a definition of death that works everywhere.

Much love!

Is there consciousness in Sheol?

 

[BarneyFife]

So then you hold to the idea that after they died, they ceased to exist, but will be "reconstituted" for judgment, after which they will cease to exist? Why bother?

Much love!

The lost will suffer commensurately with the exact measure of their contribution to the rebellion against God before their life finally ends.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So then you hold to the idea that after they died, they ceased to exist, but will be "reconstituted" for judgment, after which they will cease to exist? Why bother?

Much love!

I don’t understand your question.

 

[BarneyFife]

The same wording for everlasting life is used for everlasting torment. If it doesn't mean everlasting torment, why would it mean everlasting life?

Much love!

Probably for the same reason that many English words have more than one meaning. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

So then you hold to the idea that after they died, they ceased to exist, but will be "reconstituted" for judgment, after which they will cease to exist? Why bother?

Much love!

He allows the rain and sun to fall on the just and the unjust in this life. They have to be resurrected in order to suffer their deserved punishment which will end their life (eternally). :)

 

[marks]

I don’t understand your question.

Is it your thinking that when someone dies in this world, they cease to exist?

Much love!

 

[marks]

He allows the rain and sun to fall on the just and the unjust in this life. They have to be resurrected in order to suffer their deserved punishment which will end their life (eternally). :)

Revelation 20:12 YLT
12) and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;

They will not be alive to then have a life to end. They are the dead. John saw the dead, small and great, but not the living. The dead were judged . . .

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

Jesus said the torment would be everlasting. Won't you take His word?

Much love!

Kolasis can mean "punishment". A punishment of final death would be everlasting. But I am eisegeting, which is poor form. I read what I want to read. Why am I doing that? Because I cannot say, "Credo in un Deo crudel", ("I believe in a cruel God").

I asked what the purpose of eternal torment is. It is not rehabilitative. It is not a deterrent, especially if one believes that Man has not the capability of not sinning or of believing in a savior. It is punishment for its own sake. After how many years until justice becomes cruelty? 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? Remember also, that some of your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, et. al. will not be saved. Can you watch them be tortured and remain sane? God gave me the ability to empathize, and I can't just turn it off. I remember what it was like to be lost. I can't just say, "They can all go to Hell for all I care, as long as I'm saved". This is what we're defending in the name of doctrinal purity.

 

[marks]

When a light goeth out, there is no separation. It simply stops working. :)

Not that kind of goeth. Departing, rather.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

So then you hold to the idea that after they died, they ceased to exist, but will be "reconstituted" for judgment, after which they will cease to exist? Why bother?

Much love!

28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28-29)

I don't doubt there must be accountability. But not eternal torture.

 

[marks]

Kolasis can mean "punishment". A punishment of final death would be everlasting. But I am eisegeting, which is poor form. I read what I want to read. Why am I doing that? Because I cannot say, "Credo in un Deo crudel", ("I believe in a cruel God").

I asked what the purpose of eternal torment is. It is not rehabilitative. It is not a deterrent, especially if one believes that Man ha not the capability of not sinning and not believing in a savior. It is punishment for its own sake. After how many years until justice becomes cruelty? 100? 1,000? 1,000,000? Remember also, that some of your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, et. al. will not be saved. Can you watch them be tortured and remain sane? God gave me the ability to empathize, and I can't just turn it off. I remember what it was like to be lost. I can't just say, "They can all go to Hell for all I care, as long as I'm saved". This is what we're defending in the name of doctrinal purity.

Eternal torment offends you? So it can't be right? Is that what you are saying?

Let's say for the moment that the Lake of Fire will bring eternal torment to those cast into it. If that were so, would God be wrong to do that? Are we the ones to say? So far, my sister remains against the faith. My son simply has no regard for it. Yes, I get that this is personal.

Peter wrote that the one who has suffered has ceased from sin. Maybe there is a correlation there?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is it your thinking that when someone dies in this world, they cease to exist?

Much love!

Im not sure. I think…no. Whether they are capable of thought before the first and then the second resurrections, I don’t know.
I am saying if a person is thrown into the lake of fire, they cease to exist.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Kolasis can mean "punishment". A punishment of final death would be everlasting. But I am eisegeting, which is poor form. I read what I want to read. Why am I doing that? Because I cannot say, "Credo in un Deo crudel", ("I believe in a cruel God").

You are making sense to me. To be eternally alive is to live forever. To be eternally dead is to be dead forever.

 

[marks]

Im not sure. I think…no. Whether they are capable of thought before the first and then the second resurrections, I don’t know.
I am saying if a person is thrown into the lake of fire, they cease to exist.

OK. I was wondering if your definition of "death" was consistent.

Much love!