Church

[BreadOfLife]

It's worse with you than I thought. Not only have you misinterpreted Matthew 16, but also Isaiah who spoke of "Eliakim the son of Hilkiah", meaning "Raised of God."

First you follow those who follow men instead of God, and then you steal His prophetic word which points to Christ.

Spoken like a person who doesn't understand that the New Testament lies hidden in the Old Testamtne - and the Old is revealed in the New.

In other words - you wouldn't know a type or fulfillment if it came up and bit you on the rear . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I dont need to you do it every 5 minutes, I bow to your expertise on teh matter. Apparently we are all hypocrits according to you.

No - just people like YOU who quote Scripture - then compare others to Satan for doing the same thing.
Sheer hypocrisy . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus warned that bad people would come from inside His Church (Matt. 7:15-20). so I don't know why people are surprised.

because there is no mention of them coming from the Church there, so it is a difference of perspective.

 

[BreadOfLife]

because there is no mention of them coming from the Church there, so it is a difference of perspective.

That's because, as an anti-Catholic, you're so used to cherry-picking the Scriptures that you don't understand how to read the Bible in CONTEXT.
Matt. 7:15-20 goes hand-in-hand with John 15:5-8 . . .

“I am the vine; you are the branches. IF YOU REMAIN IN ME and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. IF YOU DO NOT REMAIN IN ME, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Here, Jesus is talking about rotten branches on HIS VINE.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's because, as an anti-Catholic, you're so used to cherry-picking the Scriptures that you don't understand how to read the Bible in CONTEXT.
Matt. 7:15-20 goes hand-in-hand with John 15:5-8 . . .

“I am the vine; you are the branches. IF YOU REMAIN IN ME and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. IF YOU DO NOT REMAIN IN ME, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Here, Jesus is talking about rotten branches on HIS VINE.

yikes, rotten branches on Christ's vine now, what next. You might entertain that "like" means a simile (or is that a metaphor? lol), and what is being asserted there is that there are no rotten branches in Christ, not that rotten branches are somehow allowed or tolerated and then cut off

 

[bbyrd009]

it is remarked that travel broadens the mind, and it seems to me that cloistering or being clannish is anathema to this concept.
you pretty much maintain that only Catholics will be saved, right.

 

[BreadOfLife]

yikes, rotten branches on Christ's vine now, what next. You might entertain that "like" means a simile (or is that a metaphor? lol), and what is being asserted there is that there are no rotten branches in Christ, not that rotten branches are somehow allowed or tolerated and then cut off

Wrong.
They came FROM the Vine - and rotted and withered away.
They didn't grow rotten and withered - separately from the Vine.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wrong.
They came FROM the Vine - and rotted and withered away.
They didn't grow rotten and withered - separately from the Vine.

so you say, yes

 

[BreadOfLife]

so you say, yes

No - so Scripture says.
Pay attention . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

No - so Scripture says.
Pay attention . . .

no other interpretation is possible for you then? Is that what you are saying?

 

[mjrhealth]

No - just people like YOU who quote Scripture - then compare others to Satan for doing the same thing.
Sheer hypocrisy . . .

I am not the one "demanding" scripture, can God help it that His best, the Holy Spirit gets chucked under the carpet like a piece of dirt by men, who would rather earn there own way to heaven, and who would rather follow men to their graves than follwo Christ into heaven. As for hypocrisy, you are teh subject expert since thats all you speak of, you know nothing else.

Have a lovely day with your religion.

 

[theQuestion]

Read the context.
Jesus wasn't talking about the meaning of the name "Peter".
If you choose foul tradition over scripture- I pity you.

 

[theQuestion]

Matt 16:13- Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare′a Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?”
14- And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli′jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15- He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16- Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17- And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18- And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19- I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
20- Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

 

[epostle1]

Cephas is the Greek form of the Aramaic "Kepha".

Jesus spoke in Aramaic in Matthew 16:18, not Greek, and not Hebrew. Paul uses the Aramaic name rather than the Greek name for Simon Peter when he writes to the churches in Galatia and Corinth, because everybody understood what ROCK meant.

Q: A Jehovah's Witness told me that Pope Pius XI signed document endorsing Nazi Germany and that he thus gave the Church's stamp of approval to Hitler and his group.

A: Pope Pius XI signed a concord with Germany to secure the rights of Christians in the country, because the Vatican recognized what a threat Hitler and his henchmen were to religious liberty. This was not an endorsement of the Nazi Party or its philosophy (it may be remembered that America also had treaties with Germany before the war broke out).

When Hitler went back on the deal and began abrogating the civil rights of Christians, the Vatican responded by issuing the only encyclical ever written in German (c or "With Burning Anxiety"), concerning the horrors of the National Socialist German state. This encyclical was smuggled into Germany (it would never have been allowed in, had the Nazis known it was coming) and read at all the parishes on the same day.

The Encyclopedia of Catholic History (by Matthew Bunson) notes: "the encyclical was a strong denunciation of Nazism, noting that the Nazis had broken several points of the concordat and were actively involved in anti-Catholic and anti-Christian programs, such as the removal of the OT [Old Testament] from schools and the promotion of the so-called German National Church. The encyclical was read from the pulpit of every German church on March 21, 1937" (p. 563).

Your pictures are a gross misrepresentation.

HITLER’S PLAN TO KIDNAP OR KILL THE POPE

More Proof of Hitler’s Plan to Kill Pius XII

The Vatican & the Holocaust: 860,000 Lives Saved - The Truth About Pius XII & the Jews

That's from the Jewish Virtual Library, but you won't bash Jews for it, that would be politically incorrect.

 

[epostle1]

Read the context.
Jesus wasn't talking about the meaning of the name "Peter".
If you choose foul tradition over scripture- I pity you.

How to deal with psychotic hatred.

 

[epostle1]

It's worse with you than I thought. Not only have you misinterpreted Matthew 16, but also Isaiah who spoke of "Eliakim the son of Hilkiah", meaning "Raised of God."

First you follow those who follow men instead of God, and then you steal His prophetic word which points to Christ.

Isa. 22: 19-25

Isa. 22: 19 I will thrust you from your office, and you will be pulled down from your station.

Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required.

This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isa.22:20 In that day I will call my servant Eli'akim the son of Hilki'ah,

Isa. 22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isa.22:21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.

Isa. 22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isa.22:22 And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 16:19 - whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.

Jer. 33:17 For thus saith the Lord: There shall not be cut off from David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.

Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever.

Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

 

[bbyrd009]

online for 13 years . . .

what is currently true will shortly be false

 

[bbyrd009]

Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

and you're sure those are the only two choices

 

[Helen]

Lord spare us! ANOTHER thread turned into a Catholic v Protestant debate.
Can we never remember that we have a common Enemy...and it is NOT each other!

As Scott already said so well ....The Church is spiritual....it is all of us in the Spirit together.
We ALL are the body of Christ...His Church .

 

[ScottA]

Isa. 22: 19-25

Isa. 22: 19 I will thrust you from your office, and you will be pulled down from your station.

Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required.

This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isa.22:20 In that day I will call my servant Eli'akim the son of Hilki'ah,

Isa. 22:20 - in the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isa.22:21 and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.

Isa. 22:21 - Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isa.22:22 And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Isa. 22:22 - we see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1 - Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority. By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant reformation 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 16:19 - whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.

Jer. 33:17 For thus saith the Lord: There shall not be cut off from David a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.

Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever.

Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

David's kingdom was given to Him (meaning Christ the Son)...not any others.

The earthly kingdom, was Christ (not Peter) overcoming the world...but it is not of "this" world.