City of Seven Hills

[Father Jim]

And here is the mind which hath wisdom....

Wisdom speaks louder than preconceived ideas. And that's what the RRE is. The Revived Roman Empire.

Rome, and especially Vatican hill, IS NOT the city of seven hills or seven mountains mentioned in Revelation 17! Mountains not HILLS is the correct rendering of the text.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The word 'hills' is an incorrect translation. The word is 'oros' which is better translated 'mountains'! The only time the word 'oros' implies a hill is when the context does so. In Revelation 17:9 the passage in no way suggest 'hills.' Rome does not sit on seven mountains! It doesn't even sit on seven hills! There are seven hills on the East side of the Tiber. 'Vatican Hill' sits on the west side of the Tiber. THAT MAKES 8 HILLS TOTAL and they are too small to be designated as 'mountains. Ranging between 250 - 500 feet they appear as little nubs when viewed from a distance, you can hardly tell they are there!

The seven hills of Rome are...
Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
Capitoline Hill (Capitolium, Campidoglio)
Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds his people both now and forevermore, the psalmist writes. (Psalm 125:2)

The Seven mountains that surround Jerusalem are...

Mount Zion (southwest, 2558 ft.),
Mount Gareb (west, 2518 ft.),
Mount Scopus (north, 2724 ft.)
Mount of Olives (east, 2641 ft.
Mount of Offense (southeast, 2411 ft.)
Mount of Evil Counsel (south, 2548 ft.)

And at the center,

Mount Moriah (the temple mount, 2556 ft.)

A HILL is smaller than a mountain - hill - lower than a mountain - Strong's/Gesenius)

Mount Moriah is at the center of these 7 mountains. This is the site of Solomon's and Herod's temple and upon it sits an anti-Christ monument called the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque? This Dome "sits upon" God's "HOLY PLACE" in East Jerusalem. Muslims want to make this area their world capital.

I think to translate the word 'oros' as hill is misleading. Mountains are technically different than hills. Besides being smaller, another difference between a mountain and a hill is that a mountain is characterized by a summit and hill does not have a summit. The KJV properly translates the word 'oros' as mountain. John did have other options to use for the word hill other than 'oros' but he chose the one that signifies a mountain.

People have tried to tie Rome into Revelation 17 since the reformation. Problem is, not one verse or passage identifies Rome as the harlot or the beast.

Catholicism is not a false religion. Like every other Christian sect - it is heretical but NOT false. Rome has been stigmatized as the great harlot and end-time beast(s) because they crucified Christ, destroyed the Temple and persecuted Christians during the inquisition. Rome no longer persecutes people. Does bible prophecy support Rome, Italy and a European coalition of nations as the End-time Beast? Absolutely not! Every nation mentioned in bible prophecy is Arab, Persian, and Islamic today.

The term "Babylon the Great" simply implies A LARGE FALSE RELIGION. Rome is NOT a false religion! People believe it's Rome or a unification of world religions because that's what they're taught. I have asked hundreds of Christians over the last 15 years to produce ONE verse of prophecy that implicates Rome in any way and not ONE person has been able to do it. Not a shred of evidence yet they continue to believe Rome will emerge in the end as the beast. How foolish. Rome will have absolutely nothing to do with end-time prophecy.

"Come out of her MY people" commands all people to get out of Islam.

 

[Jay Ross]

In the Old Testament, hill/mountains are associated with religious practices and worship. As such the seven hills in Rev 17 represent seven different religious practices and as such they are not associated with Rome or Jerusalem. The Dragon being draped over these seven hills only represents that the religious practices are corrupt and under the influence of Satan.

This presents a very different picture to the one that you are painting.

Shalom

 

[Randy Kluth]

Rome, and especially Vatican hill, IS NOT the city of seven hills or seven mountains mentioned in Revelation 17! Mountains not HILLS is the correct rendering of the text.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The word 'hills' is an incorrect translation.

That appears to be a weak argument. "Hills" and "mountains" may be interchangeable, depending on who is speaking. Who better to look at this than someone who lived closer to the time, and someone closer to the writing of the Book of Revelation? This is from Victorinus' Commentary on the Revelation: CLICK

The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman sits. That is, the city of Rome.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And here is the mind which hath wisdom....

Wisdom speaks louder than preconceived ideas. And that's what the RRE is. The Revived Roman Empire.

Rome, and especially Vatican hill, IS NOT the city of seven hills or seven mountains mentioned in Revelation 17! Mountains not HILLS is the correct rendering of the text.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The word 'hills' is an incorrect translation. The word is 'oros' which is better translated 'mountains'! The only time the word 'oros' implies a hill is when the context does so. In Revelation 17:9 the passage in no way suggest 'hills.' Rome does not sit on seven mountains! It doesn't even sit on seven hills! There are seven hills on the East side of the Tiber. 'Vatican Hill' sits on the west side of the Tiber. THAT MAKES 8 HILLS TOTAL and they are too small to be designated as 'mountains. Ranging between 250 - 500 feet they appear as little nubs when viewed from a distance, you can hardly tell they are there!

The seven hills of Rome are...
Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
Capitoline Hill (Capitolium, Campidoglio)
Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds his people both now and forevermore, the psalmist writes. (Psalm 125:2)

The Seven mountains that surround Jerusalem are...

Mount Zion (southwest, 2558 ft.),
Mount Gareb (west, 2518 ft.),
Mount Scopus (north, 2724 ft.)
Mount of Olives (east, 2641 ft.
Mount of Offense (southeast, 2411 ft.)
Mount of Evil Counsel (south, 2548 ft.)

And at the center,

Mount Moriah (the temple mount, 2556 ft.)

A HILL is smaller than a mountain - hill - lower than a mountain - Strong's/Gesenius)

Mount Moriah is at the center of these 7 mountains. This is the site of Solomon's and Herod's temple and upon it sits an anti-Christ monument called the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque? This Dome "sits upon" God's "HOLY PLACE" in East Jerusalem. Muslims want to make this area their world capital.

I think to translate the word 'oros' as hill is misleading. Mountains are technically different than hills. Besides being smaller, another difference between a mountain and a hill is that a mountain is characterized by a summit and hill does not have a summit. The KJV properly translates the word 'oros' as mountain. John did have other options to use for the word hill other than 'oros' but he chose the one that signifies a mountain.

People have tried to tie Rome into Revelation 17 since the reformation. Problem is, not one verse or passage identifies Rome as the harlot or the beast.

Catholicism is not a false religion. Like every other Christian sect - it is heretical but NOT false. Rome has been stigmatized as the great harlot and end-time beast(s) because they crucified Christ, destroyed the Temple and persecuted Christians during the inquisition. Rome no longer persecutes people. Does bible prophecy support Rome, Italy and a European coalition of nations as the End-time Beast? Absolutely not! Every nation mentioned in bible prophecy is Arab, Persian, and Islamic today.

The term "Babylon the Great" simply implies A LARGE FALSE RELIGION. Rome is NOT a false religion! People believe it's Rome or a unification of world religions because that's what they're taught. I have asked hundreds of Christians over the last 15 years to produce ONE verse of prophecy that implicates Rome in any way and not ONE person has been able to do it. Not a shred of evidence yet they continue to believe Rome will emerge in the end as the beast. How foolish. Rome will have absolutely nothing to do with end-time prophecy.

"Come out of her MY people" commands all people to get out of Islam.

Well Rome is not the beast or even the false prophet! It is called jezebel in the seven letters of Revelation because it has committed spiritual fornication. the gospel is in the Roman church and there are many saved Catholics, but at best the roman church is a deeply heretical church. It has a grace plus works gospel which is a false gospel.

A pope can never be the antichrist. The most a religious leader can aspire to in the 70th week of Daniel is the false prophet.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Rome, and especially Vatican hill, IS NOT the city of seven hills or seven mountains mentioned in Revelation 17! Mountains not HILLS is the correct rendering of the text.

At least someone gets it. Mountains are figurative of kingdoms. If you make the hill/mountains literal, then the women is literal riding a literal beast. That’s a biblical oopsie!

 

[Father Jim]

At least someone gets it. Mountains are figurative of kingdoms. If you make the hill/mountains literal, then the women is literal riding a literal beast. That’s a biblical oopsie!

Mountains - just like the word TEMPLE - are sometimes used literally - and sometimes used figuratively.

 

[quietthinker]

And here is the mind which hath wisdom....

Wisdom speaks louder than preconceived ideas. And that's what the RRE is. The Revived Roman Empire.

Rome, and especially Vatican hill, IS NOT the city of seven hills or seven mountains mentioned in Revelation 17! Mountains not HILLS is the correct rendering of the text.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The word 'hills' is an incorrect translation. The word is 'oros' which is better translated 'mountains'! The only time the word 'oros' implies a hill is when the context does so. In Revelation 17:9 the passage in no way suggest 'hills.' Rome does not sit on seven mountains! It doesn't even sit on seven hills! There are seven hills on the East side of the Tiber. 'Vatican Hill' sits on the west side of the Tiber. THAT MAKES 8 HILLS TOTAL and they are too small to be designated as 'mountains. Ranging between 250 - 500 feet they appear as little nubs when viewed from a distance, you can hardly tell they are there!

The seven hills of Rome are...
Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
Capitoline Hill (Capitolium, Campidoglio)
Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds his people both now and forevermore, the psalmist writes. (Psalm 125:2)

The Seven mountains that surround Jerusalem are...

Mount Zion (southwest, 2558 ft.),
Mount Gareb (west, 2518 ft.),
Mount Scopus (north, 2724 ft.)
Mount of Olives (east, 2641 ft.
Mount of Offense (southeast, 2411 ft.)
Mount of Evil Counsel (south, 2548 ft.)

And at the center,

Mount Moriah (the temple mount, 2556 ft.)

A HILL is smaller than a mountain - hill - lower than a mountain - Strong's/Gesenius)

Mount Moriah is at the center of these 7 mountains. This is the site of Solomon's and Herod's temple and upon it sits an anti-Christ monument called the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque? This Dome "sits upon" God's "HOLY PLACE" in East Jerusalem. Muslims want to make this area their world capital.

I think to translate the word 'oros' as hill is misleading. Mountains are technically different than hills. Besides being smaller, another difference between a mountain and a hill is that a mountain is characterized by a summit and hill does not have a summit. The KJV properly translates the word 'oros' as mountain. John did have other options to use for the word hill other than 'oros' but he chose the one that signifies a mountain.

People have tried to tie Rome into Revelation 17 since the reformation. Problem is, not one verse or passage identifies Rome as the harlot or the beast.

Catholicism is not a false religion. Like every other Christian sect - it is heretical but NOT false. Rome has been stigmatized as the great harlot and end-time beast(s) because they crucified Christ, destroyed the Temple and persecuted Christians during the inquisition. Rome no longer persecutes people. Does bible prophecy support Rome, Italy and a European coalition of nations as the End-time Beast? Absolutely not! Every nation mentioned in bible prophecy is Arab, Persian, and Islamic today.

The term "Babylon the Great" simply implies A LARGE FALSE RELIGION. Rome is NOT a false religion! People believe it's Rome or a unification of world religions because that's what they're taught. I have asked hundreds of Christians over the last 15 years to produce ONE verse of prophecy that implicates Rome in any way and not ONE person has been able to do it. Not a shred of evidence yet they continue to believe Rome will emerge in the end as the beast. How foolish. Rome will have absolutely nothing to do with end-time prophecy.

"Come out of her MY people" commands all people to get out of Islam.

Has it been considered that the Woman in Revelation 12 has morphed into the Woman of Revelation 17?

The Roman argument that they are the original Church Jesus founded ie, the woman in Revelation 12. It has now been corrupted and become the whore of Revelation 17 who panders to the political powers of the World; the process involving the adoption of pagan teachings and practices into her repertoire.

She woos the whole world with her seductive methods.....quite a different arrangement to Islamic methods/ practices.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The woman is called the harlot of babylon

it is pagan religions with which Isreal commited fornication and adultry with.. this is the woman

it sits on 7 hills or mountains.. it is not jerusalem. Jerusalem was guilty of commiting adultry with her. But she is not the harlot..

 

[ewq1938]

At least someone gets it. Mountains are figurative of kingdoms. If you make the hill/mountains literal, then the women is literal riding a literal beast. That’s a biblical oopsie!

Wrong. Heads are the symbology but hill/mountain is the literal explanation, Rev 17. Mountain in the Greek is land that rises up, so any land mass is a mountain in the Greek. It can refer to mountains like the tall ones with snow on top, or it can refer to any type of land mass like an Island or continent.

 

[ewq1938]

Has it been considered that the Woman in Revelation 12 has morphed into the Woman of Revelation 17?

Yes! The same type of people think the man-child of Rev 12 (Jesus) morphs into the beast of Rev 13 (antichrist).

 

[quietthinker]

Yes! The same type of people think the man-child of Rev 12 (Jesus) morphs into the beast of Rev 13 (antichrist).

'type of people' ....ahhhhhh, a blanket is handy to cover a multitude of sins!

 

[ewq1938]

'type of people' ....ahhhhhh, a blanket is handy to cover a multitude of sins!

The point is that it makes as much sense. One person does not become another in Rev anymore than one city becomes another. Babylon is also destroyed while Jerusalem is not. Who cares about details like that? Use that blanket to hide all the details.

 

[quietthinker]

The point is that it makes as much sense. One person does not become another in Rev anymore than one city becomes another. Babylon is also destroyed while Jerusalem is not. Who cares about details like that? Use that blanket to hide all the details.

You say 'it makes as much sense'. I would say, you say, it makes this much sense to you because there are factors you don't yet understand.

 

[ewq1938]

You say 'it makes as much sense'. I would say, you say, it makes this much sense to you because there are factors you don't yet understand.

I understand that Babylon cannot be Jerusalem. It isn't even a literal city at all.

 

[quietthinker]

I understand that Babylon cannot be Jerusalem. It isn't even a literal city at all.

Babylon and Jerusalem are figurative for a counterfeit system/ understanding/ worship of God and a bone-fide understanding and worship, respectively.

There is a bewitching in process that lulls people into false worship. People are called to come out of Babylon (a corrupted understanding of God's character and worship)
They are called to come out individually into what is figuratively know as Jerusalem.

Collectively, the 'church' has been seduced and become a whore even while individually those not seduced are deemed 'Jerusalem'

One can see the process/ outcome, historically and individually

 

[ewq1938]

Babylon and Jerusalem are figurative for a counterfeit system/ understanding/ worship of God and a bone-fide understanding and worship, respectively.

There is a bewitching in process that lulls people into false worship. People are called to come out of Babylon (a corrupted understanding of God's character and worship)
They are called to come out individually into what is figuratively know as Jerusalem.

Collectively, the 'church' has been seduced and become a whore even while individually those not seduced are deemed 'Jerusalem'

One can see the process/ outcome, historically and individually

Jerusalem is still not Babylon.

Zec_2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

 

[quietthinker]

Jerusalem is still not Babylon.

Zec_2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

I don't think you understood the post.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I don't think you understood the post.

Here's something to help:

CEV Rev 17:9-11 Anyone with wisdom can figure this out. The seven heads that the woman is sitting on stand for seven hills. These heads are also seven kings. (10) Five of the kings are dead. One is ruling now, and the other one has not yet come. But when he does, he will rule for only a little while. (11) You also saw a beast that used to be and no longer is. That beast is one of the seven kings who will return as the eighth king, but only to be destroyed.

Kings have kingdoms, and the Seven Heads of the Beast symbolise these demonically controlled oppressors of God's People.
eg. Egypt + Assyria + Babylon + Medo-Persia + Greece + Political Rome + Papal Rome = PERDITIOUS ROME (led by the man of sin who deifies himself as did the emperors of Rome)

 

[No Pre-TB]

Mountains - just like the word TEMPLE - are sometimes used literally - and sometimes used figuratively.

Yes, that is true. And in this case, John was given a vision in the spirit and as you stated before your edit, context matters. I agree. if you take the mountain as literal, then the harlot is literal and the beast she rides is literal. Are we looking for a literal female who is a literal whore and rides a beast that will eat her flesh? No, obviously the entire theme is symbolic.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Wrong. Heads are the symbology but hill/mountain is the literal explanation, Rev 17. Mountain in the Greek is land that rises up, so any land mass is a mountain in the Greek. It can refer to mountains like the tall ones with snow on top, or it can refer to any type of land mass like an Island or continent.

It would be nice to have discourse without starting a reply in the negative.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

If you take the mountains literally, then you are required to interpret the entire passage literally: a physical women sitting on 7 physical mountains. You cannot separate one from the other and choose what you think is symbolic over what is literal.

The 7 heads which are 7 mountains previously wore crowns (Rev 12:3). Do literal mountains wear crowns? or have authority?