Colossians 2:14-16 - The Law That Was Against Us

[Tong2020]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

religion
θρησκεία (thrēskeia)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 2356: From a derivative of threskos; ceremonial observance.

It would be good if Christians avoided making sweeping statements that just aren't true.

Agree. However, I’d just like to add. Religion here is not of the sense as being a ritualistic or ceremonial, but of the sense as being demonstrative in actual good works.

Tong
R1625

 

[Tong2020]

Question: "Some people I know tell me that the Ten Commandments are part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that as Christians we are free from the law. Is that right?"

Answer: "No, it is not right. And I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is very important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they're free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin."

Noted world evangelist, Billy Graham, taken from his MY ANSWER column in the newspaper

I agree that when the New Testament says that Christians are free from the law, it certainly does not mean that they are at liberty to sin. To keep it simple, the Christian is no longer bound by and under the law of the old covenant but now is bound by and under the law of the new covenant.

Tong
R1626

 

[Tong2020]

And yet not one word of contention. It was customary to hold prayer meetings, public meetings, and to preach, upon that day. (Acts 16:13; Acts 17:1,2). The book of Acts details no less than 84 distinct meetings being held on the Sabbath (See Acts 13:14, 42,44,; 16:13; 17:1,2; 18:4) The fact is that there was never any dispute between Chrstians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. In all their accusations against Paul, not once was the Sabbath ever mentioned. IT is your personal opinion that Paul was only going to the Jewish meetings for the purpose of using guile in order to convert Jews, the inference being that the next day, Paul met with his fellow Christians for worship....yet not one single meeting is recorded for the first day of the week, Sunday, other than a meeting which was held on what we would call Saturday night, with Paul preaching all night before leaving in the morning on a journey. (Which of itself would have raised the ire of the Jews if done on the Sabbath, yet here Paul is doing it on Sunday...so much for the observance of the so called "Lord's Day". And even more importantly, Paul declared in front of the Festus and the Jewish hierarchy, that "neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended anything at all...to the Jews I have done no wrong, as well you know". Acts 25:8,10)
The Sabbath is mentioned in the NT 59 times, and not once in any context of it being no longer relevant to Christian faith and practice.

Do Gentiles have this Sabbath rest of the Jews? They don’t, right? We know that because the Gentiles are not under the Law, the Law of Moses which have the Ten Commandments and the laws concerning the Sabbath. If ever there was a day of rest for the Gentiles, it was not the same as the Sabbath of the Law of Moses.

Now, consider Paul, the Christian and apostle of Jesus Christ.

Paul at one time rebuked Peter saying “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?”. We have there Peter as living in the manner of Gentile Christians. That was no problem at all, right? Right. Now what would be it like to live as Gentiles? Would that not mean even without the matter of the Sabbath day? We also have there the compelling of the Gentiles to live as Jews. That was the problem. Now, what would be it like to live as Jews? Would that not mean to do the works of the law which includes those concerning the Sabbath, as do the Jews? According to Paul that should not be, for a man, Jew or Gentile, is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ.

Paul, in going about his ministry, to the Jews he became as a Jew, that he might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that he might win those who are under the law; those who are without law, as without law, that he might win those who are without law. We can see that there is no problem with Paul becoming as those who are without law, who are the Gentiles.

Then there was also the matter of circumcision, whether the Gentile Christians must be circumcised or not. If they must, that would mean that they are required to observe the law, which includes that of the Sabbath. If not, then it follows that they are not required to observe the law. And we know that they were not required to be circumcised.

Tong
R1627

 

[Tong2020]

Question. Please return an honest answer.
If we Sabbath keepers taught that Christians ought not be in adulterous relationships, that Christians would be offending God and man if they helped themselves to their neighbor's vegetable patch, that Christians would do well to refrain from cursing and abusing those they didn't like, or even that Christians ought to refuse to dishonor their parents, would we be met with disagreement or be admonished that such laws and ideas are not applicable to Christians?

No.

But if one teaches that to be saved, one must keep the Sabbath only on the 7th day, or that those who does not keep the Sabbath on the 7th day, that is, not from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, will not be saved, I would meet him with disagreement.

Question: What is the purpose of the Sabbath day commandment, or what does it really tells us to do? Please return an honest answer.

Tong
R1628

 

[Tong2020]

Jesus was born under the Law, and died under the Law, to redeem those who always have been - not once upon a time <were> as though only in the past - "under the law". He was under the law and "was made sin for us .. under the Law". Now do you say those who by their SINS DESERVE to be under the Law but are redeemed from under the Law are not under it? The SCIPTURES SAY YOU and every one else the SAME: ARE, "UNDER THE LAW FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE or will ever live". And that now, is the Truth and the only Truth and everything NOT THAT, is satanic LIE!

<<<Now do you say those who by their SINS DESERVE to be under the Law but are redeemed from under the Law are not under it?>>>

This is what became of those who were redeemed by Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Tong
R1629

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus was born of a woman, born under the law. He was circumcised. Had he not he would be judged by the law as a sinner. He was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Tong
R1623

Yes, Jesus was born under the *era* of the Law. He was not, however, under the Law in the sense that God gave sinful Israel the Law to cover their sins with animal sacrifices. Jesus had no such need for animal sacrifices!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Regarding the giving of the law to the children of Israel, when God took them out from Egypt through Moses, consider:

Exodus 19:3 And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 4 ‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

We see the purpose of God concerning Israel there.

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. ........... 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Here we see the Law was given to bring them to Christ that they might be justified by faith. And that now that faith had come, those who were justified by faith, are no longer under the Law and are now in a new covenant with God, wherein the purpose of God spoken in Exodus 19:6 concerning Israel is being accomplished by God. For in the new covenant, having justified them through faith that has came, that is, Jesus Christ, God will transform them to the image of Jesus Christ, who is their High priest, and make them a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Tong
R1624

I don't think Paul is understood by many because as Peter said, he is sometimes hard to understand. Paul uses "shortcuts," or abbreviated terms, to avoid becoming too long-winded. In this case, he used the word "Faith" to depict a special kind of faith, namely Saving Faith.

Paul was not saying that faith didn't exist under the Law. He was saying just what I was saying, that faith under the Law fell short of Salvation, but did keep Israel in covenant relationship until that Salvation could be revealed.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes you should take note of that very quote.

Something to do with men subverting the souls of men as you do.

Thanks, exactly the verdict I expected -- from you, smug judge.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

I guess you affinity with the law ,is all the evidence you do not have the new wine, you have proved it by your own words over and over, you prefer teh old. You need to try that new wine Christ has to offer.

I guess it's your affinity with wine making the noises.
"O how I love your Law o God!" David, man to God's heart.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You would have to give up you husband which is Christ to marry another which is the law, if not for Israel being divorced from the law to be married to Christ, you would be an adulterer, but you just chose the wrong husband, teh Curse of teh law you chose for yourself.

God is not cursed, not by the best of the best of the bigots.

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't think Paul is understood by many because as Peter said, he is sometimes hard to understand. Paul uses "shortcuts," or abbreviated terms, to avoid becoming too long-winded. In this case, he used the word "Faith" to depict a special kind of faith, namely Saving Faith.

No offense, honestly, but it's been my experience that in the extremely rare case that someone even recognizes the warning in 2 Peter 3:16, it's usually followed by an implication that they, themselves are not lacking understanding of Paul's words.

I personally believe there is much of what Paul writes that I do not understand. This occurs to me when I hear an excellent explanation of a Pauline passage only to hear a different, but seemingly better one later on. We see through a glass, darkly...

And if anyone thinks that he knows anything,
he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1 Corinthians 8:2)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And yet not one word of contention. It was customary to hold prayer meetings, public meetings, and to preach, upon that day. (Acts 16:13; Acts 17:1,2). The book of Acts details no less than 84 distinct meetings being held on the Sabbath (See Acts 13:14, 42,44,; 16:13; 17:1,2; 18:4) The fact is that there was never any dispute between Chrstians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. In all their accusations against Paul, not once was the Sabbath ever mentioned. IT is your personal opinion that Paul was only going to the Jewish meetings for the purpose of using guile in order to convert Jews, the inference being that the next day, Paul met with his fellow Christians for worship....yet not one single meeting is recorded for the first day of the week, Sunday, other than a meeting which was held on what we would call Saturday night, with Paul preaching all night before leaving in the morning on a journey. (Which of itself would have raised the ire of the Jews if done on the Sabbath, yet here Paul is doing it on Sunday...so much for the observance of the so called "Lord's Day". And even more importantly, Paul declared in front of the Festus and the Jewish hierarchy, that "neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended anything at all...to the Jews I have done no wrong, as well you know". Acts 25:8,10)
The Sabbath is mentioned in the NT 59 times, and not once in any context of it being no longer relevant to Christian faith and practice.

A good, Christian, answer. To guile. God knows, brother.

 

[Tong2020]

Yes, Jesus was born under the *era* of the Law. He was not, however, under the Law in the sense that God gave sinful Israel the Law to cover their sins with animal sacrifices. Jesus had no such need for animal sacrifices!

Jesus was not born by accident under the law. And as I said, he was circumcised, was he not? He was a Jew according to the flesh. And you know what it means to be a Jew and of the circumcision, right? That He is to keep and observe the Law. In other words, if he sins, he is condemned and will be judged by the Law. But then He did not transgress any and have kept perfectly the law. That he needs no animal sacrifice for sin is not because he was not under the law, but because He sinned not and have not transgressed the law. As such one can say that Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirement of the Law.

Tong
R1632

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Question: What is the purpose of the Sabbath day commandment, or what does it really tells us to do? Please return an honest answer.

"REMEMBER the Sabbath to keep it separate because the LORD BROUGHT YOU UP, OUT OF EGYPT" -- in the OT.
"REMEMBER the Sabbath to not exchange it" with a false day, because the LORD BROUGHT CHRIST UP, OUT OF THE GRAVE "ON THE SABBATH of the week .. the day after the Preparation for the Sabbath .. the third day He said He would rise from the dead .... before the First Day of the week".

That is the purpose of the Sabbath Day Commandment, for that is the reality it tells us about Jesus Christ and the Power of His Resurrection, TO RESURRECT THE DEAD like us from eternal death. Please be honest, and two things more, please stay with Scripture and keep it simple when you seek an answer in truth.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

This is what became of those who were redeemed by Jesus Christ.

Exactly. You desire to be saved by Christ, then go under the Law. That's the only place He will be looking for you because He came to save sinners, not righteous. It's not what you become, it's what you are, for God, to bring you into Christ where you will be, saved.

 

[Tong2020]

I don't think Paul is understood by many because as Peter said, he is sometimes hard to understand. Paul uses "shortcuts," or abbreviated terms, to avoid becoming too long-winded. In this case, he used the word "Faith" to depict a special kind of faith, namely Saving Faith.

Paul was not saying that faith didn't exist under the Law. He was saying just what I was saying, that faith under the Law fell short of Salvation, but did keep Israel in covenant relationship until that Salvation could be revealed.

Yes, I agree that Paul was not saying that faith did not exist before Christ.

Now, consider this passage:

Gal. 3: 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

What is your understanding of that?

Also,

Gal.3:25 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

What do you understand by that? What did Paul mean in saying “we are no longer under a tutor”? What has that got to do with the matter that faith has come?

Tong
R1633

 

[Tong2020]

No offense, honestly, but it's been my experience that in the extremely rare case that someone even recognizes the warning in 2 Peter 3:16, it's usually followed by an implication that they, themselves are not lacking understanding of Paul's words.

I personally believe there is much of what Paul writes that I do not understand. This occurs to me when I hear an excellent explanation of a Pauline passage only to hear a different, but seemingly better one later on. We see through a glass, darkly...

And if anyone thinks that he knows anything,
he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1 Corinthians 8:2)

And @Randy Kluth too, regarding 2 Peter 3:16

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Have you tried to find out what “these things” refer to? Look in the context. And what is clear is that, Peter was not saying that all of what Paul had written are things hard to understand. Peter was specifically referring to Paul’s writing about “these things”.

Tong
R1634

 

[Tong2020]

Exactly. You desire to be saved by Christ, then go under the Law. That's the only place He will be looking for you because He came to save sinners, not righteous. It's not what you become, it's what you are, for God, to bring you into Christ where you will be, saved.

<<<You desire to be saved by Christ, then go under the Law.>>>

Please explain what you meant by that.

Tong
R1635

 

[Tong2020]

"REMEMBER the Sabbath to keep it separate because the LORD BROUGHT YOU UP, OUT OF EGYPT" -- in the OT.
"REMEMBER the Sabbath to not exchange it" with a false day, because the LORD BROUGHT CHRIST UP, OUT OF THE GRAVE "ON THE SABBATH of the week .. the day after the Preparation for the Sabbath .. the third day He said He would rise from the dead .... before the First Day of the week".

That is the purpose of the Sabbath Day Commandment, for that is the reality it tells us about Jesus Christ and the Power of His Resurrection, TO RESURRECT THE DEAD like us from eternal death. Please be honest, and two things more, please stay with Scripture and keep it simple when you seek an answer in truth.

That question was really for @Backlit. So, pardon me for not commenting on this, as I will wait for his answer. WADR.

Tong
R1636

 

[Randy Kluth]

No offense, honestly, but it's been my experience that in the extremely rare case that someone even recognizes the warning in 2 Peter 3:16, it's usually followed by an implication that they, themselves are not lacking understanding of Paul's words.

I personally believe there is much of what Paul writes that I do not understand. This occurs to me when I hear an excellent explanation of a Pauline passage only to hear a different, but seemingly better one later on. We see through a glass, darkly...

And if anyone thinks that he knows anything,
he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1 Corinthians 8:2)

I've had a life-long burden to know the source of Paul's doctrines--at least from young adulthood. Usually I know where somebody's beliefs come from, but Paul has eluded me more than nearly all others. I think God's heard my prayer because over the last few decades I've grown in understanding Paul. I won't say I have his number--I don't. I just have a much better appreciation for where his ideas came from, biblically, as opposed to what came to him directly from God.

One thing that has come to me in more recent times is the fact that Paul abbreviated things. That's why he's so hard to understand at times. He doesn't provide a glossary, so you just have to sort of read through his material, and much of the truth comes through as if by osmosis.

A perfect example of this is his use of language in Romans, where all seems to be contradictory until one realizes that he is not making any attempt to resolve the lack of consistency in word use. He is expecting the reader understands how he uses words by their context, and then apply different definitions to the same words.

"Faith" is a word that is used in different contexts to mean different things. For Paul, it can mean Saving Faith or simply OT faith. As always, context rules in defining what words mean.