Come to Worship the Lord in Jerusalem

[bbyrd009]

I do understand about posting beliefs.

you have just stated an Absolute Truth here, that i now cannot...even interact with on any level that matters, see, i am now called to agree or disagree, period.
I am making something out of nothing for an example tho, ok

Except for those specific statements that I made, I figure that's what I have been doing.

you have just stated a postulate here, a theorem, by the simple addition of the word "figure," and now we are on a whole diff level, see, now we can talk, now we can reason

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you a Yahushaic Covenant guy?

nope, not fam with them; are there more than 3 ppl in the movement?
but i bet they prolly have some bit of truth, sounds like GE maybe?
a brief look shows me that imo they have just found another way to maybe become immortals,
and worshippers of Jesus rather than partakers in Christ, but this is strictly my opinion.
i might be a Yahwist, but not of the established kind there either i guess...yikes, i gotta answer a questionnaire to even get access to their site, and apparently i gotta literally keep milk and meat on separate shelves to be one of them lol...so cute innit, when earnest little kids misunderstand? Which i guess they would not appreciate much, huh.

for this i would explore our def of Hebrew, which i'm pretty sure we got whacked now,
"
Etymology of the name Hebrew

The name Hebrew comes from the verb אבר (abar), meaning to pass over or through:..."

thus,
"Hebrew meaning

To us moderns the name Hebrew has a unique and exclusive (and even religious) ring to it, but it should be noted with some stress that this is not at all the case in the narrative of the Bible. The "name" Hebrew isn't an abstract label but much rather an ordinary word used as an appellative, like a nickname or even a signature quality. It means Passed Over or Passer Over or Transition or One Who Transits or One From The Other [Dry] Side or even Flower Forth or Deducer or He Who Looks At Something From All Sides." The amazing name Hebrew: meaning and etymology

"page 7, bbyrd009" lol, sorry Keraz

 

[Blueberry]

you have just stated an Absolute Truth here, that i now cannot...even interact with on any level that matters, see, i am now called to agree or disagree, period.
I am making something out of nothing for an example tho, ok
you have just stated a postulate here, a theorem, by the simple addition of the word "figure," and now we are on a whole diff level, see, now we can talk, now we can reason

Meant all of this except for the "God is" declarations was figuring. The rest were just questions. Straining to follow all of this. Sadly, I understand a disappointingly quite low percentage of it. And that is the absolute truth.

The Yahushaic Covenant was something I ran into once I was chasing The Cult of Sol Invictus info. Seemed to be the closest matching thing that I could find to what I can understand what you are saying. Thought maybe such a source might help me follow this much better?

Really do appreciate all this time and effort on your part. But I just can't follow it. I have tried very hard to do so. Thanks, bro.

 

[bbyrd009]

Meant all of this except for the "God is" declarations was figuring. The rest were just questions. Straining to follow all of this. Sadly, I understand a disappointingly quite low percentage of it. And that is the absolute truth.

oh that is mostly my fault i guess, but also we are talking about something that we take for granted, and so i am trying to talk about something that essentially makes no sense, if you will. Also i only meant to use you as an example there, you aren't really that guy. Plus i prolly chose a poor (great) example, wherein you make a statement of truth about your understanding of "posting beliefs," so iow an oxymoron there, simply bc there is no "...i think" or "i'm fairly sure..." included.

Having been raised "Hegelian"--as we virtually all are in the West; go team--we find it natural to make statements of belief as though they were truth, is the point i meant to make there. So iow even a simple statement like "I do understand about posting beliefs" we are...trained to not take at face value, see, i know to "qualify" that as to what you meant, the burden is on me.
Iow you will not be stoned to death for lying this morning, as might have happened 0ad, as soon as you followed that up with "Sadly, I understand a disappointingly quite low percentage of it."

ok and pls remember that this is completely inconsequential, i chose this example to blow up precisely bc it is...functionally irrelevant? ah no, emotionally irrelevant.

 

[bbyrd009]

I did. "God is" is absolute Truth. I believe "God is Love" is also absolute truth.

see, we can both agree here to the moon, but these are still beliefs, not ATs. For example if i were to say
"Allah is; that is Absolute Truth" would you still agree?


and note that regardless of our shared beliefs there will be no Duelling Absolute Truths today, or any other day right

Meant all of this except for the "God is" declarations was figuring.

so oops

 

[bbyrd009]

The Yahushaic Covenant was something I ran into once I was chasing The Cult of Sol Invictus info. Seemed to be the closest matching thing that I could find to what I can understand what you are saying. Thought maybe such a source might help me follow this much better?

ya, that has gotten harder to search by the year, i notice. But it still appears in any critical treatise of Constantine or the Roman Empire i guess, the attempt to broaden the appeal of Christianity is pretty well documented.

But now this is a diff subject, from the Hegelian thing, so to like tie them together, if that is desirable here, Jesus can be perceived as coming at the rise of Greek or Logical ("Hegelian" derived later) thought--basically an implied Winner and Loser in every human transaction (go team!)--and at the Fall of the Roman Empire (the only Fall you will ever find, but nevermind), whose subjects were mostly Mithraists, only that is strictly for men, so the Cult of Sol Invictus had emerged, which you are already quite fam with the characters there, Mercury/Apollo/(Jesus) and Zeus/Jupiter/(God), and Valhalla/i don't know/(Heaven), depending on whether you speak Roman, Greek, or English. But of course helpful Christians abolished the teaching of the classics in HS, so we are not near as fam as we should be, but whatever

i put ours in parenthesis bc assumably this is still not established here, for most Christian believers anyway, but i could lead you to "Jupiter/Zeus is our Father" in the Bible, depending upon which tranny you use...which is not searching too good either, but we have an instance of (i thought) Paul equating "God" to "Zeus" for some crowd, other than the Acts refs i thought, but i could make the point other ways anyway, "Unknown God" by Jonah @ the Ninevites, etc. Christ is inclusive, iow

 

[Blueberry]

oh that is mostly my fault i guess, but also we are talking about something that we take for granted, and so i am trying to talk about something that essentially makes no sense, if you will. Also i only meant to use you as an example there, you aren't really that guy. Plus i prolly chose a poor (great) example, wherein you make a statement of truth about your understanding of "posting beliefs," so iow an oxymoron there, simply bc there is no "...i think" or "i'm fairly sure..." included.

Having been raised "Hegelian"--as we virtually all are in the West; go team--we find it natural to make statements of belief as though they were truth, is the point i meant to make there. So iow even a simple statement like "I do understand about posting beliefs" we are...trained to not take at face value, see, i know to "qualify" that as to what you meant, the burden is on me. Iow you will not be stoned to death for lying this morning, as might have happened 0ad, as soon as you followed that up with "Sadly, I understand a disappointingly quite low percentage of it."

make sense so far?

Sorta, kinda. I do not mind being used as an example. I tried to lay myself out there to be critiqued, corrected or whatever was needed to illustrate the concepts. Rip my assertions to shreds if it helps.

Actually, I believe that "in my opinion" is implied unless one states some sort of clear attempt to insist upon absolute truth such as "The fact of the matter is..." or "the truth is..." and so on. Its always someone's opinion. The problem with this 'nobody can know for sure' is that it really never gets us anywhere.

It is self defeating when I try to press forward about this 'no Heaven, No Hell' (for example) but we can never seem to know anything for certain. Its frustrating, fatiguing, and worst of all, fruitless. I feel no more in tune with what you believe except that I can't really believe anything without being presumptuous. Apparently, I don't even listen correctly.

How can you know that it is an absolute truth that we can't know absolute truths?

.
so if you ever start posting beliefs, my whole approach here changes ok

I do understand about posting beliefs. Except for those specific statements that I made (ie "God is"), I figure that's what I have been doing.

added

Ironically this is what I thought that I was showing that I was getting.

But here is the same old Hegelian lecture again and again and again. It gets old, bro. I do not see any change in approach.

 

[amadeus]

Sorta, kinda. I do not mind being used as an example. I tried to lay myself out there to be critiqued, corrected or whatever was needed to illustrate the concepts. Rip my assertions to shreds if it helps.

Actually, I believe that "in my opinion" is implied unless one states some sort of clear attempt to insist upon absolute truth such as "The fact of the matter is..." or "the truth is..." and so on. Its always someone's opinion. The problem with this 'nobody can know for sure' is that it really never gets us anywhere.

Some people will insist that they know for sure... and if God really put the absolute truth in them then they are correct, but how is the other guy to know that unless God told him that the first guy really does have the AT?

It is self defeating when I try to press forward about this 'no Heaven, No Hell' (for example) but we can never seem to know anything for certain. Its frustrating, fatiguing, and worst of all, fruitless. I feel no more in tune with what you believe except that I can't really believe anything without being presumptuous. Apparently, I don't even listen correctly.

How can you know that it is an absolute truth that we can't know absolute truths?

What is it that God wants us to live by... AT or by faith? Consider...

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Was not Jesus saying it is better to go according to belief than by knowledge... at least according to the blessing received?

Remember Gideon did in the OT? He double checked God before he would accept what he was told:

"And Gideon said unto God, If thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said,
Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said.
And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.
And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground." Judges 6:36-40

He received two signs. So then was that AT for him?

Then consider also this:

"And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.' Gen 41:32

"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Deut 19:15

So then if we have at least two witnesses to something, is it so established?

Ah, but then consider what Jezebel to did to Naboth in I Kings 21. She used the law God gave to Moses [Deut 19:15 above] against Naboth to accomplish the desire of Ahab...

Where does that leave us? How reliable must our two or three witnesses be? One of them surely needs to be God.

 

[bbyrd009]

How can you know that it is an absolute truth that we can't know absolute truths?

ah, good Q, tbh i do not apply that standard to these matters, and the whole point there was to illustrate how making statements of Belief as though they were Absolute Truth will still kill us, which again i don't perceive you to be doing at all as a rule

 

[bbyrd009]

It is self defeating when I try to press forward about this 'no Heaven, No Hell' (for example) but we can never seem to know anything for certain. Its frustrating, fatiguing, and worst of all, fruitless. I feel no more in tune with what you believe except that I can't really believe anything without being presumptuous.

sorry if i gave that impression, my fault. Actually considering someone's "beliefs" in here would be quite refreshing imo, and you are a welcome addition! Working up in your post, yes it might seem fruitless, but that is only bc...i submit that that is only bc we have an overwhelming desire to know things for certain, and (by extension) to be able to say that we know.

So we disregard where Jesus--our supposed God, right--plainly says heaven is, and plainly says Gehenna is, and we disregard when we are supposed to spiritually die--which is the only dying God cares about, the other being completely irrelevant to God, only relevant to "us," (our egos iow)--and before you know it see we find ourselves surrounded by friends and family all singing
"When We All Get to Heaven."

narrow is the path, and few there are who find it
we do not yet know what we will become

so anyway i guess it seems like i am maybe ruling out the possibility of an "afterlife" in a place called "heaven," which is strictly true, yes, but that is bc imo God has a better idea than even that, although that maybe sounds hard to believe right now, bc of course getting the part of me that i consider me--that is coincidentally the part that has separated from God, oops--into immortality is certainly what i would love too ok.

 

[bbyrd009]

But here is the same old Hegelian lecture again and again and again. It gets old, bro. I do not see any change in approach.

me neither,

I did. "God is" is absolute Truth.

so i take it you are prepared to prove the existence of God to a jury of your peers?

ha but srsly i am a Unit ok, you have a better person to ask herenow in Amadeus

 

[bbyrd009]

What's wrong with singing "When we all get to heaven?"

absolutely nothing, as long as we all understand that we can go there today!

 

[Keraz]

Been away a few days, family business.
Reading thru the posts above, I despair of ever getting the message through of what God has planned for His people in the end times.
But I realize that for most Christians, they have already made up their minds about what they want God to do for them, or simply don't care about it, so therefore Isaiah 29:9-12 applies. The Prophetic Word is a closed book to them.

Be assured; there must come a dramatic change to the world that we know. God has great patience: but as 1 Peter 3:1-7 tells us, He corrected the situation before and now as Jesus prophesied: civilization will be again as in the days of Noah when the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:37-44

absolutely nothing, as long as we all understand that we can go there today!

This is the sort of uninformed nonsense that that I am constantly up against.
No one goes to heaven, Jesus said so; John 3:13
Even before Judgment or any trials and testing? What absolute arrogance and unbelievable ignorance of Bible truths.
We WILL be tried and tested, make no mistake about that! If we avoid it, or worse; think we don't need it, then we are not God's children. Hebrews 12:7-8

 

[bbyrd009]

I despair of ever getting the message of what God has planned for His people in the end times.

ah, that just takes ears to hear?
Or if you want to be a prophet, then make a prophecy and record it somewhere, and point out when it comes to pass, etc?
a few of those and you will then be getting plenty of attention ok, you will not be able to avoid it even i bet

but yes, the struggle is real, huh Keraz

Be assured; there must come a dramatic change to the world that we know.

the world is passing away
leave the world, i say

This is the sort of uninformed nonsense that that I am constantly up against.

it's a Rock bro, it isn't going to move even a little bit, ever imo
the kingdom does not come by observation
the kingdom of heaven is within you
today is the day

Even before Judgment or any trials and testing? What absolute arrogance and unbelievable ignorance of Bible truths.
We WILL be tried and tested, make no mistake about that! If we avoid it, or worse; think we don't need it, then we are not God's children. Hebrews 12:7-8

well, at least before we found the world prolly?

Little children are still doing just fine without our help i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

μυω | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)

 

[amadeus]

Been away a few days, family business.
Reading thru the posts above, I despair of ever getting the message through of what God has planned for His people in the end times.
But I realize that for most Christians, they have already made up their minds about what they want God to do for them, or simply don't care about it, so therefore Isaiah 29:9-12 applies. The Prophetic Word is a closed book to them.

Well as long as you sincerely believe in what you are doing in a sincere and proper way and time, why should you despair? You simply do the work for God and for people that God assigned to you and will you not be blessed by Him? You would not be the first prophet or teacher sent by God who seemed to fail in spite of his obedience... Consider Jeremiah who God told ahead of time that the people would not hear him:

"Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee." Jerem 7:27

Jeremiah's assignment was to speak God's words to the people even though God told him ahead of time that they would not listen or obey. Jeremiah did what he was told out of obedience, not because they were going to listen. Unlike Jonah and he did not attempt to run away from the cup God gave him to drink.

Be assured; there must come a dramatic change to the world that we know. God has great patience: but as 1 Peter 3:1-7 tells us, He corrected the situation before and now as Jesus prophesied: civilization will be again as in the days of Noah when the Son of Man comes. Matthew 24:37-44

This is the sort of uninformed nonsense that that I am constantly up against.
No one goes to heaven, Jesus said so; John 3:13

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

Are they not all three of those heavens right here and right now wherever this is? Was Jesus not saying he alone was in [had been, would be?] all of them? But without "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" what can we perceive of that which to us is darkness and silence? Must "up" or "down" require physical motion of a physical body in a direction measurable by carnal men with their material devices?

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32

If we start always in the "lowest room" will we not be then lifted up by God to the very heavens from the hell where we started? [See Luke 14:8-11]. How perfect is our vision when we see the face of God clearly? Do we see it in the first or lowest of heavens? Was Jesus perhaps speaking of three heavens with the words of John 3:13?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

But what was it John wrote?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" I John 3:2

Even before Judgment or any trials and testing? What absolute arrogance and unbelievable ignorance of Bible truths.
We WILL be tried and tested, make no mistake about that! If we avoid it, or worse; think we don't need it, then we are not God's children. Hebrews 12:7-8

And where is this judgment to start? Has it not already begun? Is it not already underway? Where and how? How about within us?

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" I Peter 4:17

Where and what is the house of God? Is the house different than the Body?

Are we ready to provide Jesus with a place to lay his head?

If Jesus is the Head of the Body of Christ, where is the Body? [/quote][/QUOTE]