Come to Worship the Lord in Jerusalem

[bbyrd009]

I certainly do like to stay in the world; it is the place I was made to live in.

ok, ty. Imo Scripture says otherwise

Hegel declared: The end of History. I totally reject that statement.

ah, i have no idea who Hegel was myself; i meant to refer to the dialectic that bears his name, which is why i asked about Hegelian and not Hegel

 

[bbyrd009]

Then I asked myself one day, "How can I be so absolutely sure that there are no absolutes??" :

?
all circles are still round i guess

Why pick up my cross if my eternal fate is security? From gratitude.

well sure; not saying that that can't happen, just that see how that has now been made into an optional thing, if i'm not feeling gratitude in some moment i can pass now, tra-la

I see that abundant death as a seed falling to the groundand producing abundant life.

Living Sacrifice and Death More Abundantly are both established concepts, and our perceptions about one don't change the other much i guess?

I want to earn crowns and treasure to lay at Jesus feet.

imo that is not what those are about, and your will is apparent in this statement?

I want to see people come to Jesus.

well, generally speaking those also want to become immortal and go to heaven when they die too i guess? I don't mean to say that what you have said is a bad thing, necessarily, but see...the place you have sat in there? I mean the words are fine, but many of the inferences that can/will be made from them might be troubling at least?

i mean...not to be unkind here, but Keraz wants ppl to come and worship the Lord in Jerusalem, too, and look what happens there in post 1! yikes?

 

[Blueberry]

well sure; not saying that that can't happen, just that see how that has now been made into an optional thing, if i'm not feeling gratitude in some moment i can pass now, tra-la

I do understand what you are saying. And, yes, this definitely does happen.

Living Sacrifice and Death More Abundantly are both established concepts, and our perceptions about one don't change the other much i guess?

I may not be fully following this? I do agree that any absolute truths are not changed by my perception, will or anything. If they exist, I do not influence them, but they may well influence me.

imo that is not what those are about, and your will is apparent in this statement?

Okay. And I do see my will in this statement.

well, generally speaking those also want to become immortal and go to heaven when they die too i guess? I don't mean to say that what you have said is a bad thing, necessarily, but see...the place you have sat in there? I mean the words are fine, but many of the inferences that can/will be made from them might be troubling at least?

I've been gathering that you do not adhere to the common conventional thinking of 'if we are forgiven while in this life then we go to Heaven and if we are not then we go to Hell'? I would certainly agree that this life is not just about which fork in the Eternity Road that we take. That there is much to do, experience and accomplish here. Perhaps even to prove?

i mean...not to be unkind here, but Keraz wants ppl to come and worship the Lord in Jerusalem, too, and look what happens there in post 1! yikes?

Yeah, 'ground zero' so to speak. But then I have gathered from you that you are not with the negative things to come mindset. That things are as good as they have ever been. (In some ways I most definitely agree.) That disaster is not looming just ahead on the horizon. That things may even actually get better.

I remain less optimistic. Not because of news reports or a general thinking/feeling that people have or all the 'negative waves' (Kelley's Heros), but because of what I understand in regards to biblical prophecy. I expect global ramifications. Not sure if Keraz is saying this is only limited to Jerusalem.? I would certainly agree that the focus will be there. I did not follow everything in post #1.

I am still a more standard traditional Tribulation events guy. Even if some of that is more recent teaching or understanding relative to the Church. While I use to be more into those specifics, I one day just boiled it down to being ready (Right with God) at all times. In season, out of season. If it happens locally in Jerusalem, then I am ready. If it is global, then I am ready. If there is a Rapture and I escape the worst of it all, then I was ready. If there is no rapture and I have to endure it, possibly being beheaded for my faith and testimony, then I am ready. That outcome would not shake my faith or cause me to 'fall away'.

Mongo only pawn in game of life. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

I've been gathering that you do not adhere to the common conventional thinking of 'if we are forgiven while in this life then we go to Heaven and if we are not then we go to Hell'?

this is the definition of The Cult of Sol Invictus, that Constantine imported into Established Christianity, and can be easily shredded with Scripture, i mean they will not even be able to reply, will not be able to even acknowledge the post usually

I would certainly agree that this life is not just about which fork in the Eternity Road that we take.

ha, we can even note all the work that has been done to install our current bad def of "eternity," which is intrinsic to much of the rest of our concept of salvation imo. A good def of "eternity" destroys our Western Christian Salvation Model all by itself.

Enoch living to 969 years is not literal, it is to make a spiritual point imo, that goes along with a good definition of "eternal."

Not sure if Keraz is saying this is only limited to Jerusalem.?

it is a literal interp, ergo it is irrelevant on its face. Jerusalem is a spiritual place to a seeker, and only a literal place to the world and most believers, imo. There are surely no lack of other signs too, we are talking about the literal Jerusalem and also about tomorrow, not today, right?

We are being told to be very afraid about tomorrow, as opposed to give no thought for the morrow, and not only that, we are believers, the audience in here is "believers," right, so see how that does not even make sense, the message does not fit the audience, etc

I would certainly agree that the focus will be there.

me too, only it is not a place, and focus requires Two Eyes wadr right

 

[bbyrd009]

the line between Prophets and Seers in Scripture is a thin one i guess, prolly be a good thread.

fwiw i would never have commented in here if statements of Belief were being made,
Keraz is certainly allowed to believe what he likes too.
IRL i even ignore statements of AT, bc i have to live with them usually, iow the truth as i see it is not politic then
so, this is by way of explanation for why i am even in here

no, the prophecies in post 1 will not manifest as the poster believes, and the Bible will even tell us why imo. He who says he knows anything does not, so just look for ppl saying they know stuff, and voila.

so if you ever start posting beliefs, my whole approach here changes ok

 

[Blueberry]

I've been gathering that you do not adhere to the common conventional thinking of 'if we are forgiven while in this life then we go to Heaven and if we are not then we go to Hell'?

this is the definition of The Cult of Sol Invictus, that Constantine imported into Established Christianity, and can be easily shredded with Scripture, i mean they will not even be able to reply, will not be able to even acknowledge the post usually

So no Heaven, no Hell? What happens when we die physically? How do our moral choices in this life affect that outcome?

I would certainly agree that this life is not just about which fork in the Eternity Road that we take.

ha, we can even note all the work that has been done to install our current bad def of "eternity," which is intrinsic to much of the rest of our concept of salvation imo. A good def of "eternity" destroys our Western Christian Salvation Model all by itself.

Enoch living to 969 years is not literal, it is to make a spiritual point imo, that goes along with a good definition of "eternal."

So will there come a time when all things that we know will cease? We do not live on in some form and location indefinitely?

What a terribly depressing thought. It would mean that none of this, nothing, really matters.

I can agree that without a fear of eternal damnation that salvation would take on a different meaning. Likely a different value as well.

If you have a different definition of eternity then please hurry and share it with me. We haven't got an endless amount of time you know. :)

Do we reabsorb into some sort of non-individual mass of consciousness or something like that?

I missed the spiritual point of the conveying of the information about Methuselah's (Enoch's son) longevity. I can sort of see how Enoch being 'taken' at 365 years old might suggest some sort of alternate concept than 'people live, people die, people are judged and spend their eternity at one location or the other', but I do not know what it might be?

Do you draw from the Book of Enoch, Book of Moses and other sources to derive at this? I see a reference below about being a seer. So even other sources possibly?

it is a literal interp, ergo it is irrelevant on its face. Jerusalem is a spiritual place to a seeker, and only a literal place to the world and most believers, imo. There are surely no lack of other signs too, we are talking about the literal Jerusalem and also about tomorrow, not today, right?

We are being told to be very afraid about tomorrow, as opposed to give no thought for the morrow, and not only that, we are believers, the audience in here is "believers," right, so see how that does not even make sense, the message does not fit the audience, etc

Both are referencing the future. One is about the practical day-to-day necessities of physical life. Jesus was chastising people for the lack of faith that the Father will provide for our basic needs.

The other speaks of future events. Possibly near to our present time future events? Jesus also warned of things to come in the future.
Things that may bring great consequences if we do not heed his warnings. So we should take thought of those. I do not mean to give Keraz or his post equality to Christ as I am referencing things Christ forewarned about. But that some point, one single day, it would end up being a warning about one particular 'tomorrow'.

I see Jerusalem primarily as a distinct physical location at this current time. One that also has a very significant spiritual quality to it. Because God chose that distinction. Not even because of the events that have taken place there is the reason I have. Again because God chose for those things to occur there. The New Jerusalem takes on a stronger spiritual quality to me. Though it seems also physical as well.

me too, only it is not a place, and focus requires Two Eyes wadr right

I find it hard to ignore the physical place known as Jerusalem. That people can travel to, physically touch and even potentially be spat upon there as you suggested. It [I believe] will be centerpiece and location of many of the fulfillments of Biblical prophecy. The "Two Eyes" capitalization has me confused. Cannot find anything directly on that. Sounds fairly New Age 'spiritual eye' like. That this non-physically manifested Jerusalem can be detected with?

 

[Blueberry]

the line between Prophets and Seers in Scripture is a thin one i guess, prolly be a good thread.

Most likely a lengthy one!

But an interesting one as well I am confident.

fwiw i would never have commented in here if statements of Belief were being made,
Keraz is certainly allowed to believe what he likes too.

IRL i even ignore statements of AT, bc i have to live with them usually, iow the truth as i see it is not politic then
so, this is by way of explanation for why i am even in here

Religion/philosophy are basically inseparable from politics. The former are the intellectual and spiritual exercises and disciplines of learning while the latter is the practical application of those truths in the individual's life and family and then on society.

If we ascertain that murder is wrong then we seek to implement restrictions against it in everyday life.

Politics use to be a passionate selfless agenda based attempt to bring about a better world. Not what it has degraded into in modern times. The advocacy was for the greater good and not personal gain as is so often the case nowadays.

no, the prophecies in post 1 will not manifest as the poster believes, and the Bible will even tell us why imo. He who says he knows anything does not, so just look for ppl saying they know stuff, and voila.

so if you ever start posting beliefs, my whole approach here changes ok

I agree that I do not believe that things will go exactly as stated in post #1. But the general notion that things are going to play out physically there with many ramifications, particularly for (latitude 31.771959, longitude is 35.217018) 'Jerusalem', I do agree with.

"He who says he knows anything does not" sounds like a quote form the bible, but I am not familiar with it.

I do understand about posting beliefs. Except for those specific statements that I made, I figure that's what I have been doing.

 

[Blueberry]

this is the definition of The Cult of Sol Invictus, that Constantine imported into Established Christianity, and can be easily shredded with Scripture, i mean they will not even be able to reply, will not be able to even acknowledge the post usually

Are you a Yahushaic Covenant guy?

 

[bbyrd009]

So no Heaven, no Hell?

the kingdom of heaven is within you
and Gehenna is still in Erets, and Hades mythology has no punishment in "the afterlife," so this "hell" that you state is disappearing pretty fast, where is it? Tartarus?

What happens when we die physically?

12No one knows where they go when they die
2we do not yet know what we will become

so imo if someone is worried about where their ego is going to reside in their bad def of "eternity"
then they should really be worried about what happens when they died spiritually

How do our moral choices in this life affect that outcome?

19You and your sons will be here with me regardless, so the Q is moot imo, at least from the perspective of Life, more abundantly.
You are asking me to comment on Death, More Abundantly; the Cult of Sol Invictus

 

[bbyrd009]

So will there come a time when all things that we know will cease?

well let's be fair, that is a pretty decent description of today! But to respond more directly, the world is passing away i guess, sure. The earth will be the better for it i'm sure also

We do not live on in some form and location indefinitely?

see that you are asking me "I do not live on in some form and location indefinitely?" and then identify this "I" a little better if you would; the "I" that separated from God, you mean? The part that was supposed to be dead already iow, the ego?

so my reply is "maybe," bc i don't know, maybe you can, but i cannot think of a better description of hell than that,
as strange as that might sound at first read. Yes, all those "we's" might very well get the desires of their heart, too,
after all, it would only be fitting, right?

What a terribly depressing thought. It would mean that none of this, nothing, really matters.

from the pov of an ego attempting to become immortal, certainly, but we are called to change our minds and "put on" immortality today imo.

We are told to give no thought for the morrow for a very good reason, and the spiritual position of those who do give lots of thoughts--often all their thoughts--is made plain in the Passage imo, is it not?

 

[bbyrd009]

I can agree that without a fear of eternal damnation that salvation would take on a different meaning. Likely a different value as well.

the difference is profound i guess, but being mostly still in the world and seeking death more abundantly myself i can't really say

 

[bbyrd009]

If you have a different definition of eternity then please hurry and share it with me. We haven't got an endless amount of time you know. :)

ah, hmm. Part B i'll skip over, as the "we" there is strictly...advertising their pov imo

as to the first one, even a corrupted Strong's will work for that,
Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age
Strong's Hebrew: 5769. עוֹלָם (olam) -- long duration, antiquity, futurity

Eons end, as do Ages, but we want eternal to mean immortal i think, and if one wants that bad enough there is even Scripture that they can read with Two Eyes and Quote if they like, right, and i hope obviously i would certainly love for the pov to be validated myself!
But it only works with two eyes i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Do we reabsorb into some sort of non-individual mass of consciousness or something like that?

boy, i'd be kind of afraid to guess, myself, after talking with you this am my guess is that maybe will will all get whatever we say we want the most! Ha! Careful what you wish for, maybe.

 

[bbyrd009]

I missed the spiritual point of the conveying of the information about Methuselah's (Enoch's son) longevity. I can sort of see how Enoch being 'taken' at 365 years old might suggest some sort of alternate concept than 'people live, people die, people are judged and spend their eternity at one location or the other', but I do not know what it might be?

tbh me neither, but obv there is significance in the numbers 365 and even 969. Imo it might be best to read that more like "365 begets 969," and let the spiritual implications there guide you? 365 is fairly obvious, 969 i am currently perceiving as "almost 1000," but surely there is some significance in the 69 part that i am not getting, i doubt it means what we think of now

Do you draw from the Book of Enoch, Book of Moses and other sources to derive at this? I see a reference below about being a seer. So even other sources possibly?

maybe for a Seer, not for me though. i pretty much just play with reading Scripture from diff perspectives, iow did Enoch and Methuselah actually live to those ages, or is Scripture trying to impart spiritual info there, that a pov of reading "history" might occlude? I find that regardless, they are both just stories to me either way, and they can be read with one eye or two

 

[bbyrd009]

Both are referencing the future.

ok, sure, and you are allowed to interpret "after i have literally died" or "after i have spiritually died, at baptism, like i was supposed to but did not" imo

The other speaks of future events. Possibly near to our present time future events? Jesus also warned of things to come in the future.
Things that may bring great consequences if we do not heed his warnings. So we should take thought of those. I do not mean to give Keraz or his post equality to Christ as I am referencing things Christ forewarned about. But that some point, one single day, it would end up being a warning about one particular 'tomorrow'.

reading with two eyes, certainly, but in another and very real sense tomorrow never comes, does it? And science can now tell us what happens to ppl who stay on "high alert" all of the time, even if Scripture's warnings about being ruled by fears are not imo.

Any passage of The Revelation of Christ may be read from the perspective of the Hegelian Dialectic we are all so intimately fam with, or It may be read from the perspective in which it was written, and the interpretation reveals the perspective, not necessarily the truth.

so imo if you are afraid of tomorrow--or dress it up how you like, see; worry, or concern, or even thought (according to Scripture)--then examine the fear. We currently live in the Decline of Empire--in the world at least--and this is admittedly a quite stressful situation, if you find yourself in the world. And you do not have to leave the world if you don't want to, you can conflate the world with the earth if you like, too; but only one of them is passing away i guess.

if you are in the world, imo def heed the warnings about tomorrow, from Keraz even, i would even say that he is not putting it near strongly enough, and that all of your worst fears will manifest, and you will then get the desires of your heart there, right?

Everyone finds what they seek imo, Keraz will be vindicated, and i don't mean to imply otherwise

 

[bbyrd009]

I see Jerusalem primarily as a distinct physical location at this current time.

ok, not to be deliberately obtuse here, but to point out an...idiosyncrasy of language; you have never actually seen Jerusalem at all, right? Iow i am meant to interpret what you just said based upon a convention that we have both agreed upon; you are using slang to convey a concept to me, that being "understanding" in this case. You currently "realize" Jerusalem as....that, is another valid way to put it? Bc you have been persuaded that in theory at least you could go and see Jerusalem with your two eyes, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

I find it hard to ignore the physical place known as Jerusalem.

yet i could make a compelling case that you have ignored that literal place your whole life too, see, and that "Jerusalem" is strictly a spiritual symbol for you!

That people can travel to, physically touch and even potentially be spat upon there as you suggested. It [I believe] will be centerpiece and location of many of the fulfillments of Biblical prophecy. The "Two Eyes" capitalization has me confused. Cannot find anything directly on that. Sounds fairly New Age 'spiritual eye' like. That this non-physically manifested Jerusalem can be detected with?

well, with plucking out the eye that offends you? A flowery way to say "change your perspective" imo, or bam interpret that how you like, but interpret it somehow, iow don't ignore it or dismiss it. Imo even the commentaries mostly get that one right

 

[bbyrd009]

Most likely a lengthy one!

But an interesting one as well I am confident.

i guess even "prophet" the way we define that now is a misnomer, i'm studying there now, but a chief diff i note already is that one says "if you do this, that will happen; but if you do that, this will happen," and the other does not

 

[bbyrd009]

Politics use to be a passionate selfless agenda based attempt to bring about a better world. Not what it has degraded into in modern times. The advocacy was for the greater good and not personal gain as is so often the case nowadays.

the implications of 1 Samuel 8 are very clear imo, but i can even perceive that any good idea written in stone by a group of people will begin with the best of intentions, sure.

imo this is where "human works are worse than useless" should be applied, and not to personal works, that we will all be judged for

 

[bbyrd009]

"He who says he knows anything does not" sounds like a quote form the bible, but I am not familiar with it.

google is happy to supply a ref with a click, but i forget that ppl are not so aware of that yet, sorry.
1 Corinthians 8:2