Could God Save Everybody If He Wanted To?

[Duckybill]

What think ye?

Romans 9:11-13 (NKJV)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

 

[th1b.taylor]

What think ye?

Romans 9:11-13 (NKJV)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

Of late this is a much contested thought, isn´t it? My position on the matter is about as controversial as the issue itself. I say no! The reasoning behind my position is based on past studies and it goes like this.

God created man in His image. Not His physical image but rather, spiritual. Because we need, not sex, but real love, just as we see God desires also. In Mal. 3:6a we find that God never changes. (Some argue, what about Moses and Hezekiah but they are taking scripture out of it´s context.) When we take the time to read the Holy Bible as we do a novel we learn a lot about God. God did not create us to be human robots, He gave us the same Free Will that He exercises.

Now consider what God has told us about the Spiritual Realm and itś relationship to our Time/Space Continuum. A thousand years is as a day. And when we look at Jeremiah we find that God knew him before he was. And as we read through the entirety of scripture we cannot help but to learn that God knows everything before it will ever happen leaving us with the much misunderstood doctrine of Election.

I cannot give you a group or multiple verses to prove my position but it is that God, at this very moment in the past, is right now in the future and at the same time, here now. God knew I would submit to His rule before there was time. For this reason my hame was in the Book of life before He created anything.

This can be and I pray will be a good discussion.

 

[brionne]

What think ye?

Romans 9:11-13 (NKJV)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

If he judges a person as worthy of saving, he will save them. God knows us very intimately, he sees into our hearts and he draws us if we have a heart that can be drawn.


Jesus says at John 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him

Romans 9:14 What shall we say, then? Is there injustice with God? Never may that become so! 15 For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy upon whomever I do have mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I do show compassion.” 16 So, then, it depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.

But not everyone has a heart worthy of God. Pharaoh was an example of one of those who's heart was not right.
17 For the Scripture says to Phar′aoh: “For this very cause I have let you remain, that in connection with you I may show my power, and that my name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 So, then, upon whom he wishes he has mercy, but whom he wishes he lets become obstinate

 

[Rach1370]

What think ye?

Romans 9:11-13 (NKJV)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

I think God could. He's God, He can do anything. But what God is ultimately about, in everything, through everything, is the praise of his glorious grace. So...those He saves and those He does not, all ultimately work together for this very purpose.

If he judges a person as worthy of saving, he will save them. God knows us very intimately, he sees into our hearts and he draws us if we have a heart that can be drawn.

Ah, yeah. I have a problem with that. None of us are worth saving. There is nothing we have ever done, thought or provided that is worthy of his gift. If there was even a sniff of a possibility that we could be worth, by our own steam, of salvation, Jesus would not have needed to come and die. And he did...not only come to teach us and encourage us...he came and died for us. It is only in that action that we have grace and salvation...a free gift. And a gift that is free, by definition, doesn't require any effort, payment or reimbursement for it. Do we then, through new life, new heart and the help of the Holy Spirit, desire with everything in us to live in a manner that produces good fruit? Oh boy yes! But it is done through joy, thankfulness and response to the gift, not out of a need to earn something we already have been given for free.

 

[us2are1]

What think ye?
Could God Save Everybody If He Wanted To?

Romans 9:11-13 (NKJV)
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

The answer to the question is No. God is perfect as is His Plan. He can and will not conform to doing it your way.

 

[veteran]

One would first have to understand God's idea of 'election' before they could understand WHY He loved Jacob, but hated Esau, even before either child was born, neither yet having chance to do good or evil.

Not all are born as His elect chosen. For one that is not, they become... His elect through faith on Jesus Christ and remaining in that Faith and overcoming (John 17; Rev.2 & 3).

Apostle Paul was a primary example of one of God's chosen elect. Christ even said of Paul that he was a chosen vessel unto Him (Acts 9). One must ask theirselves if our Lord Jesus intervened directly with Saul (Paul), then why not everyone? It's because it has to do with being a chosen sent one by God. His elect will not be, and cannot be turned away from the duty He has given them.

But for others, they still can be turned away if they allow themselves to be, which is what the great apostasy away from Christ in the last days is about.

 

[Duckybill]

For those who say that God cannot save everyone if He wanted to, I say who will stop Him?

 

[tomwebster]

For those who say that God cannot save everyone if He wanted to, I say who will stop Him?

db, your image of God is far too small. God could not save everyone because it would go against His Holiness and Justice.

 

[th1b.taylor]

db, your image of God is far too small. God could not save everyone because it would go against His Holiness and Justice.

Ditto!

 

[Rach1370]

I don't think the question was 'will God save everyone'....but could He. No, He will not save everyone, as Tom said...that would go against His nature...that of goodness, holiness and justice.
But talking just 'could'...as in, what is God capable of....I think we can all agree that God is capable of anything and everything! Things that we are too small to even grasp, He can do!

 

[logabe]

The idea that God cannot do something, or that God is limited in His
ability, is fairly common among Christians. Many think that God's
ability to act is limited by man's “free will.” People often think that
God either cannot override man's will or that He is incapable of
making man change his will to conform to the will of God.

So what is it that prevents God from saving all mankind? 2 Peter
3:9 says, that He is not willing that any should be lost, or perish.
Thus, if any are lost, it is not because it is the will of God.
The Apostle Paul says in 1 Tim. 2:4 that God “will have all men
to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” This, too,
defines the will of God for all men.

The problem is that evil men seem to thwart God's will, and God
seems to be powerless to do anything about it. How powerful is God,
anyway?

Logabe

 

[us2are1]

Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!
15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." <a name="b">
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

Deuteronomy 32
39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

Isaiah 45
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'

 

[Duckybill]

db, your image of God is far too small. God could not save everyone because it would go against His Holiness and Justice.

God created everyone as it please Him. He could have saved everyone if He wanted to do so. He didn't.

The answer to the question is No. God is perfect as is His Plan. He can and will not conform to doing it your way.

I said if HE wanted to, not me.

 

[Prentis]

I think it comes down to this: if God allowd unloving people in heaven, and evildoers, of bad character, there would be no justice for the righteous, who would once again have to suffer at the hand of the wicked!

God is patient, and he wishes for none to perish, and so he seeks out that all would see and turn from wickedness to righteousness. But men will not! They love their ways and the rewards they receive from it.

When the time of patience has come to it's end, God will execute judgment. For the sake of the righteous, he will put away the wicked man, and so both will have reaped what they sow.

So it is not that God 'cannot' do this, as though he was not all powerful, but about rather his wisdom and justice, which he wille execute. God is wiser than man!

 

[Helen]

For those who say that God cannot save everyone if He wanted to, I say who will stop Him?

And I say amen to that! God will do just what He has planed to do....and he wont check with us first!!!

 

[Vengle]

I was impressed by veteran's comment in post #6. Very few see that.

And I agree completely with Prentis' evaluation of the interplay of God's justice on behalf of loyal righteous ones.

The only thing I would add is that he could definitely keep dashing and rebuilding the haughty until they surrendered, but to do that he would have to go against love's unforced choice. And that would set a bad example for all to follow. It would lead to our becoming self-righteous. For, God's loyal righteous ones are imitators of his love.

So then, one might ask, "Does that not mean that his dashing us at all is a violation of love?"

The answer is in what Hebrews 12:8 says, "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

God does not dash the wicked but instead just lets them keep getting caught by the consequences of their own evil right up to the day they die or he dashes them for the purpose of destroying them completely.

On the other hand, his meek ones desire that discipline. His meek ones are willing to endure that dashing so he does not dash them for the purpose of destroying them. And what he does is what they want him to do as they humbly desire to learn and be taught. And they want to be rid of the pride and things which prevent that.

 

[Duckybill]

God could have created EVERYONE to be obedient to Him, and thereby save everybody. Anyone dispute that? He didn't, because He chose not to do so. So then, why didn't God create EVERYONE to be saved? Surely there is nobody here who believes that God couldn't have done so. Of course He cannot do so now because that would make Him a liar. He cannot lie. The majority of humans will not be saved regardless of how many try to make it so.

Mt 7 Narrow is the way and FEW there be ...

 

[Prentis]

Amen Vengle! It is a broken and a contrite heart that the Lord desires!

 

[tomwebster]

God created everyone as it please Him. He could have saved everyone if He wanted to do so. He didn't.

....

Your God is too small. Someday you will see it, for now just put it on the shelf.

 

[Duckybill]

Your God is too small. Someday you will see it, for now just put it on the shelf.

What is your point??? If you are saying that everybody will be saved you are deceived.