Could the disciples have lost their salvation?

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ScottA

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See what you are saying in the messenger of satan sent, served Paul not the other way around...in keeping Paul from being exalted above measure. Judas also in John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

But was this only in the NT ...consider Job. Many more OT passages...and even in the garden: Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Nice, thanks for that!
 
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Preacher4Truth

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You have shown no capacity to understand Calvinism. What you ramble about is not the teaching at all.
He doesn't understand the Gospel or Biblically sound doctrine otherwise demeaned as "Calvinism." You will never get him to substantiate any of his claims or offer Biblical evidence other than his claims that a passage says something not there. It's like a no trick pony brother.
 

ScottA

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So that's a yes, God is the Author of sin?

God by His Holy Spirit empowers sinners to sin greater sins?

I can't say I agree with that!

Much love!
mark
I know, I know...it doesn't set well, but see post #56

And...

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
 

Enoch111

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Are you saying that God does not justify the ungodly?
God justifies only those ungodly who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. And within humanity that will be a minority.

Enter ye in at the strait [narrow] gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.(Mt 7:13,14)

“Lord,” someone asked him, “are only a few people going to be saved? ” He said to them,Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Lk 13:23, 24)
 

Episkopos

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None who are truly converted lose their eternal salvation.

An opinion shared by many...especially if they consider themselves to be truly converted. It is another way of saying "I am forever saved and no one can deny me my life in eternity with all the benefits and pleasures attached to that".

And they all said..."amen."
 

Episkopos

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Yes. But Joel 2:28 is about the outpouring, not justification. Why do you ask?


Do you realize that the words justify and justification mean the same thing? Now please reread what I posted and reconsider your response. Try again IOW.
 

Hidden In Him

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Your emotions apparently have you blinded from being able to perceive that "all" means all.

What emotions? I was simply pointing out that the context of the verse suggests that "all flesh" doesn't mean that God is going to pour out His power to walk in supernatural gifts upon every evil sinner in the world, it means that He will pour out HIs Spirit upon every believer from the very young to the very old. I think your interpretation is completely bizarre and illogical, Scott, but I wasn't being emotional.
 

Hidden In Him

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Only that the apostles were men God knew would endure to the end, even unto death. But we must also endure to the end, and cannot take it for granted as some today do.

This is also an interesting post. Yes, I think He did know they wouldn't betray Him. But that's not taking away from the possibility that He was using this teaching to make sure of it. If not, then He would have been teaching right past them to every other Christian leader who would come after them, but I personally think it was a safeguard to make sure they didn't as well.
 

Hidden In Him

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Do you realize that the words justify and justification mean the same thing? Now please reread what I posted and reconsider your response. Try again IOW.

These two threads have my head spinning already, LoL. Since you remember where it is, how about if you repost it for me, LoL.
 
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Hidden In Him

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None who are truly converted lose their eternal salvation.

You have shown no capacity to understand Calvinism. What you ramble about is not the teaching at all.

Greetings, gentlemen. If you would like to participate in this thread, please read the OP and respond to the question I asked first.

Appreciate it.
 
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Episkopos

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These two threads have my head spinning already, LoL. Since you remember where it is, how about if you repost it for me, LoL.


Episkopos said:

Are you saying that God does not justify the ungodly?

HiH said....

Yes. But Joel 2:28 is about the outpouring, not justification. Why do you ask?
 

marks

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I know, I know...it doesn't set well, but see post #56

And...

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Calamity (evil) and moral depravity (evil) are two different things. You make out God to be a Sinner.

No. That does not set well.
 

Hidden In Him

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Episkopos said:

Are you saying that God does not justify the ungodly?

HiH said....

Yes. But Joel 2:28 is about the outpouring, not justification. Why do you ask?

I thought you meant the post before that post, LoL. Yes, justification from justify. What is your point? Joel 2:28 is about the outpouring, not justification. You seem to be suggesting that the two are one in the same.

Btw, sorry about the late reply. Was reading a long message.
 

Episkopos

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I thought you meant the post before that post, LoL. Yes, justification from justify. What is your point? Joel 2:28 is about the outpouring, not justification. You seem to be suggesting that the two are one in the same.

Btw, sorry about the late reply. Was reading a long message.


At least you are honest about being confused.
 
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marks

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Yes, I know. Same thing as I was referring to; works of the Mosaic law. I don't think that not abusing the church constitutes a "work" as described by Paul.

I divide things between faith - reliance on what Jesus has done - and works - describing things I do, including behavior and lifestyle.

Much love!
Mark
 

Hidden In Him

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I divide things between faith - reliance on what Jesus has done - and works - describing things I do, including behavior and lifestyle.

Much love!
Mark

Yes, Mark. I know. :) But as I stated, I think it's a mistake to apply "works" to things like not abusing the church. In Paul's letters, a work was something from the Mosaic law that a person accomplished whereby he could say he was in right standing with God, such as being circumcised, which he mentioned in Ephesians 2.

To apply this over into anything a believer can do would be to take Paul's teachings about trusting in "works of the law" too far.

We may have to agree to disagree. I know it is a common thing some people preach. I just think it is reading certain passages into others where the context is entirely different.