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Featured Could the disciples have lost their salvation?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Hidden In Him, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I said it too plainly. Here is God saying He does both:

    "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him." I Samuel 16:14
     
  2. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    We get back to the fact that Romans 8.38-39 speaks of the believer's eternal security; and that John's First Epistle says a lot about the believer's assurance.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    So what we do, good or bad, was preplanned implanted in us?

    Sounding way too much like Calvinism.
     
  4. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    The Pharisees knew exactly who this parable was aimed at. This is part of God orchestrating his crusifiction. Your mistake hidden is the same mistake many make when reading scripture, they make themselves the focal point instead of Christ.
     
  5. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't know about Calvinism. But just as God is "I am", we too "are" what we are...and life in the world is just a manifestation of it. What was written before time, is now told through the pages of history. His story. Then comes the end.
     
  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    The world manifests it via freewill.
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    This is non-responsive. You don't have to respond. I'm not planning to try to force you. But if you believe what you are saying, why not answer plainly?

    What say ye?
     
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Not so.

    A spirit sent by God distressed Saul. You can as easily say a wind sent by God blew down a tree. We'd find that distressing, but not sinful. Not wicked or evil, just calamitous. There was a spirit who was distressing, and was sent to Saul.

    Saul was to be distressed, and God send a spirit to do that.

    But does that teach us that God sent His Holy Spirit poured out on all people, both the just and the unjust, to cause them to, with your word, "flourish", in whatever they are? The good to do more and better good, the evil to do more and worse evil, by the power of the Holy Spirit?

    It does not.

    Personally, I find that idea completely repugnant.

    Much love!
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    brakelite and Hidden In Him like this.
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to chip in here.

    Example of the Old Testament. Pagan kings have it in her heart to invade Israel. The Holy Spirit would encourage that desire for God's purpose of punishing Israel.

    But when done, he would smash the pagan countries.

    The Holy Spirit doesn't create anything new in the hearts of evil. He enhances what is already there to accomplish his purposes.

    Like some here encourage others to lash out to aid their purposes. Be they good or be they bad.
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    One has to get the correct definition of spirit. To assume the demon may or may not be correct.

    This part of the definition could very well apply.

    • spirit (as seat of emotion)
      1. desire
      2. sorrow, trouble
    • spirit
      1. as seat or organ of mental acts
      2. rarely of the will
      3. as seat especially of moral character
     
  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to deal with not only two whole Chapters but probably two entire letters to pursue this with you, so unfortunately it will have to wait.

    Maybe some other time.
     
  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Romans seven, eight and nine are solid OSAS.

    There are no exceptions and no exclusions. Romans 8 makes point after point of it will be.

    And it's crystal clear that nothing in all creation can take those he predestines all the way to glorification that can take them from his hand.

    That includes every individual because every individual is part of creation.
     
  13. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I'm fairly emotional, but you were reading in this time.
    In the context of the Chapter, Scott, the "evils" he creates are circumstances having to do with the rise and fall of nations. It is not saying He deliberately creates evil men. But we're far too afield of the OP at this point anyway, so let's leave it there.
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    CoreIssue, you are doing the same thing Byrd was doing in hijacking this thread over into a debate you want it to focus on. You are not the only one, so I don't blame you solely, but focus on the passage at hand. I asked you a question in Post #25 and you never answered. If you missed it, let's get back to discussing the passage in the OP.

    Appreciate it.
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I hijack nothing. What I said is relevant.

    I missed that question but the answer I gave to the other covers a lot of it:

    It is relevant to all the time frames.
     
  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi CoreIssue,

    So then you agree that the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost to all people who would live thereafter, to enhance and encourage and empower both the good to do good and the evil to do evil?

    Much love!
    mark
     
  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not.

    The Holy Spirit only given to the to be born again.

    He never indwells unbelievers.

    There is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit during the tribulation or the MK. That is a Church reality that ends at the rapture.
     
  18. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 5:45-48
    [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    (Romans 13:1-5)
    [1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
     
  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Nothing says that everyone.

    Matthew was written for the Holy Spirit was given.
     
  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    OK. Because that is what @ScottA is espousing.

    Much love!
     
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