Covid . . Are Americans totally stoopid??

[Giuliano]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

We do know that darkness and evil are not real, don't we? They are the absence of something. The word "create" in Hebrew always involves the imagination; and we must use our imaginations to understand what darkness and evil are. "Evil" might make more sense to us if it was translated as "bad" as in a "bad field" which doesn't produce anything. Similarly a tree that doesn't produce can be called "bad."

 

[Stan B]

God at no time will go contrary to the free will of man.

I have a bit of a problem with that concept as a theological premise.

 

[Stan B]

We do know that darkness and evil are not real, don't we?

You have to be kidding!! ??

 

[marks]

We do know that darkness and evil are not real, don't we? They are the absence of something. The word "create" in Hebrew always involves the imagination; and we must use our imaginations to understand what darkness and evil are. "Evil" might make more sense to us if it was translated as "bad" as in a "bad field" which doesn't produce anything. Similarly a tree that doesn't produce can be called "bad."

I think in this place the correct understanding would be, I create peace, and I create calamity.

Much love!

 

[Giuliano]

I have a bit of a problem with that concept as a theological premise.

You imagine God changes His mind about things then.

You have to be kidding!! ??

I hope you do not think darkness is something real. It isn't. It is the absence of light. Likewise a vice is not real in itself. It is the absence of a virtue. People seem easily confused about the "power of evil." But one can avoid giving power to evil by choosing the real, the true, the good. Evil then flees away as an illusion.

 

[Giuliano]

I think in this place the correct understanding would be, I create peace, and I create calamity.

Much love!

"Peace" or "shalom" conveys the idea of completion. It is stable and permanent. What we see as bad or evil is temporary and unstable, a passing phrase. Thus the "creation" was without form, void, empty, and dark. We also do not see God "speaking" during creation. Those were not "works" of God. Rather something was being played with in the Mind of God -- in His imagination -- so that good could come. All of God's works are good.

Israel was given a choice between good and evil. Choose good and live -- stability, peace, harmony, etc. Choosing evil is a delusion, even if our imaginations make it look enticing. It is ephemeral and passing and can lead to death -- the cessation of life.

Most people are basically like good soil. If they receive the right seed, they will produce fruit. That is how God made us. The lie people have swallowed is that they are not made in the image and likeness of God -- they feel unworthy, etc. Then they may want to hide from God as Adam and Eve did.

 

[Yehren]

"Evil" might make more sense to us if it was translated as "bad" as in a "bad field" which doesn't produce anything. Similarly a tree that doesn't produce can be called "bad."

Yes, I think that's right. Nothing truly evil can come from God.

 

[Yehren]

I have a bit of a problem with that concept as a theological premise.

I don't think God would ever take free will away from a man. He wants us to come to Him on our free will, and I believe He will always give us the freedom to reject Him if that is what we want.

But I certainly don't think God is in any way constrained by any person's free will.

 

[Taken]

I heard a pastor teach on this years ago and he said that Adam was given dominion over everything on earth and all living creatures and God gave him the keys of authority.....but when he disobeyed God and did what satan told him to do then he basically handed over his authortiy and dominion to satan along with the keys given to Adam...
That is what Jesus took back when he died and went to hell and made an open shew of satan and took away the keys.

Haven't heard that or studied that to comment, but thanks for sharing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Yes, I think that's right. Nothing truly evil can come from God.

Isa 45:
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[Taken]

Hence, the far right's celebration of Donald Trump, who has used the Ten Commandments as bathroom tissue.

Celebration OF Trump? LOL
No I do not celebrate my Servants!

 

[Brakelite]

It’s a diversionary tactic. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. You demonize, and then you — we call it the wrap-up smear. You want to talk about politics? It’s called the wrap-up smear. You smear somebody with falsehoods and all the rest, and then you merchandise it, and then you write it, and they’ll say, ‘See, it’s reported in the press that this, this, and this,’ so they have that validation that the press reported the smear, and then it’s called a wrap-up smear. ‘Now I’m going to merchandise the press’s report on the smear that we made.’ It’s a tactic.”

Satanic in origin. The very same tactic Lucifer used in heaven to convince a third of the angels to rebel.

KJV Ezekiel 28
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

‭07404 ‭הלכר‭ rᵉkullah ‭rek–ool–law’‭
‭
‭‭pass part of ‭07402‭; n f; [BDB–940a]‭ ‭{See TWOT on 2165 @@ "2165a"}‭
‭
‭‭AV – merchandise 2, traffick 2; 4‭
‭
‭‭1) merchandise, traffic, trade ‭
‭
Jesus said Satan was the father of lies, and a murderer from the beginning. The traffic, teasing, and merchandise mentioned was not material goods, but slander and politicking. The lies about the character of God and the murder of God by impugning character. Politics is just that, plain and simple. Destroying others character in order to exalt your own.

 

[Taken]

I hope you do not think darkness is something real. It isn't. QUOTE]

Yipes!
You attempting to Disgard and preach Gods Creation as NOT Real, (while implying you are IN Belief and Faith of God)...
IS an unappealing revealing of your fruits.
( and BTW it is reflected ALSO in your same "manner" against Trump ... "saying, agreeing" with that which IS Not True, then arguing against what IS True.)

Isa 45 :7 is an Express contradiction to your preaching.

Isa 45:7
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:

I the LORD do all these things.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

God "Created" Darkness.
Keep Learning How God "Makes" His "Created" Darkness , "LIGHT", (by His Power and Reflection of Himself Who IS Light).

 

[Yehren]

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

You're misunderstanding the meaning of "evil" in this verse.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

Even the foremost advocate of predestination was unwilling to accuse God of evil:

"Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity-which is closer to us-rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God's predestination."
John Calvin, Institutes

"Evil" in this verse, means "calamity", not evil as we use the term today:


In Old English and other older Germanic languages other than Scandinavian, "this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective (adj.), or harm (n.), crime, misfortune, disease (n.). In Middle English, bad took the wider range of senses and evil began to focus on moral badness. Both words have good as their opposite. Evil-favored (1520s) meant "ugly." Evilchild is attested as an English surname from 13c.

The adverb is Old English yfele, originally of words or speech. Also as a noun in Old English, "what is bad; sin, wickedness; anything that causes injury, morally or physically." Especially of a malady or disease from c. 1200. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was one of the senses of the Old English noun, but it did not become established as the main sense of the modern word until 18c. As a noun, Middle English also had evilty. Related: Evilly. Evil eye (Latin oculus malus) was Old English eage yfel. The jocular notion of an evil twin as an excuse for regrettable deeds is by 1986, American English, from an old motif in mythology.

evil (n.)

"anything that causes injury, anything that harms or is likely to harm; a malady or disease; conduct contrary to standards of morals or righteousness," Old English yfel (see evil (adj.)).
evil | Origin and meaning of evil by Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[Taken]

You're misunderstanding the meaning of "evil" in this verse.

James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

Even the foremost advocate of predestination was unwilling to accuse God of evil:

"Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity-which is closer to us-rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God's predestination."
John Calvin, Institutes

"Evil" in this verse, means "calamity", not evil as we use the term today:


In Old English and other older Germanic languages other than Scandinavian, "this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective (adj.), or harm (n.), crime, misfortune, disease (n.). In Middle English, bad took the wider range of senses and evil began to focus on moral badness. Both words have good as their opposite. Evil-favored (1520s) meant "ugly." Evilchild is attested as an English surname from 13c.

The adverb is Old English yfele, originally of words or speech. Also as a noun in Old English, "what is bad; sin, wickedness; anything that causes injury, morally or physically." Especially of a malady or disease from c. 1200. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was one of the senses of the Old English noun, but it did not become established as the main sense of the modern word until 18c. As a noun, Middle English also had evilty. Related: Evilly. Evil eye (Latin oculus malus) was Old English eage yfel. The jocular notion of an evil twin as an excuse for regrettable deeds is by 1986, American English, from an old motif in mythology.

evil (n.)

"anything that causes injury, anything that harms or is likely to harm; a malady or disease; conduct contrary to standards of morals or righteousness," Old English yfel (see evil (adj.)).
evil | Origin and meaning of evil by Online Etymology Dictionary

Disagree.
I've heard the calamity claim before.

Calamity - mentioned less than 25 times in Scripture...is about Events that cause Distress.

Evil - mentioned well over 700 times in Scripture...is about immorality and wickedness.

If you back up... God created a Garden and Everything IN IT.
And IN IT was Expressly a Tree of the Knowledge of Good and EVIL.

God IS Good...His Knowledge IS Good AND Evil.
He Created a Tree with Good and Evil.
A man could not know What Good, Moral, Right, IS or what Evil, Wicked IS...
if God had Not created such things....and identified those things By what He called them.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Yehren]

Calamity - mentioned less than 25 times in Scripture...is about Events that cause Distress.

Evil - mentioned well over 700 times in Scripture...is about immorality and wickedness.

Doesn't matter. The meaning of "evil" at the time the KJV was written, is not the same as it has today.

In Old English and other older Germanic languages other than Scandinavian, "this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective (adj.), or harm (n.), crime, misfortune, disease (n.). In Middle English, bad took the wider range of senses and evil began to focus on moral badness. Both words have good as their opposite. Evil-favored (1520s) meant "ugly." Evilchild is attested as an English surname from 13c.

The adverb is Old English yfele, originally of words or speech. Also as a noun in Old English, "what is bad; sin, wickedness; anything that causes injury, morally or physically." Especially of a malady or disease from c. 1200. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was one of the senses of the Old English noun, but it did not become established as the main sense of the modern word until 18c. As a noun, Middle English also had evilty. Related: Evilly. Evil eye (Latin oculus malus) was Old English eage yfel. The jocular notion of an evil twin as an excuse for regrettable deeds is by 1986, American English, from an old motif in mythology.

evil (n.)

"anything that causes injury, anything that harms or is likely to harm; a malady or disease; conduct contrary to standards of morals or righteousness," Old English yfel (see evil (adj.)).
evil | Origin and meaning of evil by Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[Taken]

Doesn't matter.

Ok, I'll accept it doesn't matter to you.

 

[Yehren]

Calamity - mentioned less than 25 times in Scripture...is about Events that cause Distress.

Evil - mentioned well over 700 times in Scripture...is about immorality and wickedness.

Doesn't matter. The meaning of "evil" at the time the KJV was written, is not the same as it has today. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was one of the senses of the Old English noun, but it did not become established as the main sense of the modern word until 18century.

Ok, I'll accept it doesn't matter to you.

You're confused about what I said. It doesn't matter what you (or anyone else, for that matter) think. What matters, is what the meaning was when the KJV was published.

 

[Taken]

You're confused about what I said.

No. I understood you precisely.

It doesn't matter what you (or anyone else, for that matter) think. What matters, is what the meaning was when the KJV was published.

The KJV is quite explicit ...

Tree of Good AND Evil.
(Not the Tree of Good AND Calamity.)

An Evil person can with intent Cause a Calamity.
That is the Evil behavior of the person.

A Calamity can occur without anything Evil causing it.
A dead tree could fall and crush a house.
That would be a Calamity....but what is the Evil in that? Nothing.

I disagree with you. And it doesn't matter if you disagree with me.
I am already well aware there is little on nearly every topic that I am in agreement with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Yehren]

You're confused about what I said.

No. I understood you precisely.

No, you still don't get it. You're trying to force a translation made hundreds of years ago, to fit modern definitions of words. And as you just learned, "evil" had a different meaning then.

In Old English and other older Germanic languages other than Scandinavian, "this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective (adj.), or harm (n.), crime, misfortune, disease (n.). In Middle English, bad took the wider range of senses and evil began to focus on moral badness. Both words have good as their opposite. Evil-favored (1520s) meant "ugly." Evilchild is attested as an English surname from 13c.

The adverb is Old English yfele, originally of words or speech. Also as a noun in Old English, "what is bad; sin, wickedness; anything that causes injury, morally or physically." Especially of a malady or disease from c. 1200. The meaning "extreme moral wickedness" was one of the senses of the Old English noun, but it did not become established as the main sense of the modern word until 18c. As a noun, Middle English also had evilty. Related: Evilly. Evil eye (Latin oculus malus) was Old English eage yfel. The jocular notion of an evil twin as an excuse for regrettable deeds is by 1986, American English, from an old motif in mythology.

evil (n.)

"anything that causes injury, anything that harms or is likely to harm; a malady or disease; conduct contrary to standards of morals or righteousness," Old English yfel (see evil (adj.)).
evil | Origin and meaning of evil by Online Etymology Dictionary