Crucifixion Day

[bbyrd009]

well i'm pretty sure you have to follow the law anyway. Isn't that what “the man who does them shall live by them" means? Grace does not free us to break laws, imo. I see this argument all the time, "now you have to keep the whole law." But imo it might be whether he is stoning you for not keeping the Sabbath or not that would determine that. Or if he sought redress in the law for a wrong done to him, then i also might agree. Doing penance for a sin (sacrificing), rather than availing yourself of Grace, might also be seen as being under the law. But Grace fulfills the law.

To me that means that if you want to take the first day of the week off, rather than the seventh, or for that matter take every day, and that seems right to you, based upon your understanding, then i am not called to whip up a posse to go to war over it, to compel you to adhere to the law. Neither am i condemned for heeding the call of some extraneous circumstance that compels me to break the Sabbath in service of some emergency. Like that.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Jewish Sabbath is Saturday, the last day of the week. Sunday is described as the first the first day of the week in several places in Scripture.

we kind of already knew that Sunday was the first day of the week though, so that really doesn't speak to the Sabbath issue, assuming there is one. I'm aware of the arguments, from passages about meetings on Sunday, which are then conflated with Sabbaths by some reckoning i don't get, and i note that in the Rev we are told that the Sabbath will be observed in the kingdom, and while i'm convinced that means Saturday, really someone having any concept at all of Sabbath is better than someone without, imo. I mostly found it an effective way to break with the world, who mostly seems to enjoy shopping on Saturday, the world over, or at least everywhere i have been. It is even "small business day" now in the US; which i just take for another sign that maybe Saturday is still meant for the Sabbath, lol, there being such a conspiracy to commoditize it and all.

And while i don't mean to condemn the Sunday crowd, you have to admit that that practice is completely accepted by the world, whereas Saturday seems to be a constant thorn to people imo.

 

[BreadOfLife]

liafailrock, on 24 Mar 2017 - 4:07 PM, said:

Right. But now you are required to follow the entire Law of Moses, and you will die in your sins: from Galatians: "10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[e] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[f] 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them."

we kind of already knew that Sunday was the first day of the week though, so that really doesn't speak to the Sabbath issue, assuming there is one. I'm aware of the arguments, from passages about meetings on Sunday, which are then conflated with Sabbaths by some reckoning i don't get, and i note that in the Rev we are told that the Sabbath will be observed in the kingdom, and while i'm convinced that means Saturday, really someone having any concept at all of Sabbath is better than someone without, imo. I mostly found it an effective way to break with the world, who mostly seems to enjoy shopping on Saturday, the world over, or at least everywhere i have been. It is even "small business day" now in the US; which i just take for another sign that maybe Saturday is still meant for the Sabbath, lol, there being such a conspiracy to commoditize it and all.

And while i don't mean to condemn the Sunday crowd, you have to admit that that practice is completely accepted by the world, whereas Saturday seems to be a constant thorn to people imo.

Col 2:16-17
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

When you guys keep kosher and all of the cleanliness laws and the dietary laws and the purification laws and sacrifice bulls and goats for the atonement of your sins - then you can decry the Christian practice of Sunday worship. Not as Christians, however, but as faithful Jews.

We Christians know that Jesus nailed ALL of that to the cross . . .

 

[Mungo]

i note that in the Rev we are told that the Sabbath will be observed in the kingdom

Really? Where?

 

[rstrats]

kepha31,
re: "...we speak of a 'three-day vacation' and that we returned 'after three days or 'on the third day.' A literal “three 24-hour day trip” would end at 8 AM on Tuesday. Such descriptions are understood, then, as non-literal. The ancient Jews and Romans simply added the clause 'and nights' to such utterances, but understood them in the same way, as referring to any part of a whole 24-hour day."


Can you provide any actual examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur?

 

[epostle1]

kepha31,
re: "...we speak of a 'three-day vacation' and that we returned 'after three days or 'on the third day.' A literal “three 24-hour day trip” would end at 8 AM on Tuesday. Such descriptions are understood, then, as non-literal. The ancient Jews and Romans simply added the clause 'and nights' to such utterances, but understood them in the same way, as referring to any part of a whole 24-hour day."


Can you provide any actual examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur?

No. Part of a day counts as a day, and part of a night counts as a night. Idioms are not hyper-literal.

 

[rstrats]

kepha31,
re: "Part of a day counts as a day, and part of a night counts as a night."


But where was a day ever counted as a day when no part of a day could have occurred?

Or where was a night ever counted as a night when no part of a night could have occurred?

 

[amadeus]

I am not really getting into this discussion. Rather below I have quoted the words of an Eastern Orthodox Catholic priest which he posted on another forum a couple of years ago. It is quite different that most of the explanations I have heard on the subject so I kept a copy of it:

So the question is, how can Christ have risen on the third day, after three days, and once three days and nights have passed? Was Christ contradicting himself? No, but Christ was speaking in such a manner that not everyone could understand him, but that biblically both statements were true at the same time.

Remember that we have to look at how the early Christians thought about these things. They were taught directly by the Apostles and handed down the very Scriptures we have today. The early Church Fathers, the early liturgical sources, and Scripture itself answers this question.

Remember that Scripture clearly defines the first definitions of day and night. "The light he called day, and the darkness he called night." This was before sun and moon starts. Scripture is clear that there was darkness over all the earth (land) from noon to 3pm. St. Mark states that Christ was crucified at the 3rd hour of the day (9am). That means, for 3 hours light (day 9am-noon), or 3 hours darkness (night noon-3pm), for another three hours day again (3pm-sundown), then night (sundown to sunrise), then day again (sunrise to dark on Saturday), then night again.

This gives us three days and three nights.

 

[rstrats]

The Messiah said as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the fish that He would spend 3 days and 3 nights in the "heart of the earth". How could it be said that He was in the "heart of the earth" during the period from 9 through 3?

 

[rstrats]

kepha31,

You have a couple of questions directed to you in post #87.