Daniel 7 - 10 horns....

[Douggg]

What you fail to understand is when he comes on the scene. He is not present in chapter 2 for a reason. He COMES OUT of pagan Rome in chapter 7 - but only AFTER the 10 horns come out of pagan Rome in chapter 7.

But since pagan Rome is destroyed in 476 AD (7:11), this means that BOTH the little horn AND the 10 horns must have already come onto scene BEFORE its demise!

That is the timing issue. You throw everything into he far future because you fail to identify both the little horn and the 10 horns.

And that is because you cannot find them in our history books.

The horn person of Daniel 8:25 is time of the end, who will stand up, i.e. attempt to make war on, the Prince of princes - Jesus.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[CTK]

The horn person of Daniel 8:25 is time of the end, who will stand up, i.e. attempt to make war on, the Prince of princes - Jesus.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

That is just your opinion - now prove it. Who is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8? I just mentioned to you that he arrives before pagan Rome is slain in 476 AD (7:11)...

 

[Douggg]

That is just your opinion - now prove it. Who is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8? I just mentioned to you that he arrives before pagan Rome is slain in 476 AD (7:11)...

We don't know the little horn's identity yet - his specific name. But it won't be long.

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person.

 

[CTK]

We don't know the little horn's identity yet - his specific name. But it won't be long.

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person.

I have asked you this question at least 10 times over the past 2 years and you continue to refuse to answer... I will ask you one more time - do you agree the scriptures in chapter 7 tell us the 4th beast will be slain (7:11) can only be pagan Rome in 476 AD which tells us the little horn and the 10 horns have already come out of this same 4th kingdom? Read and study the first 11 verses of chapter 7.

 

[Douggg]

I have asked you this question at least 10 times over the past 2 years and you continue to refuse to answer... I will ask you one more time - do you agree the scriptures in chapter 7 tell us the 4th beast will be slain (7:11) can only be pagan Rome in 476 AD which tells us the little horn and the 10 horns have already come out of this same 4th kingdom? Read and study the first 11 verses of chapter 7.

I ask you...

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person ?

--------------------------------------------------------------
As to your question, the EU (the Roman kingdom manifested in the end times) will be dismantled and not allowed to reunite when Jesus returns.

 

[CTK]

I ask you...

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person ?

--------------------------------------------------------------
As to your question, the EU (the Roman kingdom manifested in the end times) will be dismantled and not allowed to reunite when Jesus returns.

How can that be? You are not being honest here... if pagan Rome was slain in 476 AD and that is recorded in verse 7:11, and the verses before 7:11 describe the little horn and the 10 horns coming out of pagan Rome, then doesn't that tell you they came out of pagan Rome before it was slain?

 

[Douggg]

How can that be? You are not being honest here... if pagan Rome was slain in 476 AD and that is recorded in verse 7:11, and the verses before 7:11 describe the little horn and the 10 horns coming out of pagan Rome, then doesn't that tell you they came out of pagan Rome before it was slain?

The term "pagan Rome" does not appear in Daniel 7, nor any place in the bible.

Now answer my question...

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person ?

 

[Jay Ross]

In the days of these kings, God will set up His kingdom… Jesus set up His kingdom this first coming. The kings / kingdoms are the same 4 kingdoms of the metal man age. Jesus came in the early part of pagan Rome. The 70 weeks of years was from 457BC to 33/34 AD. The Messiah was baptized on the first day of the 70th week to begin His ministry. He would go to the cross in 3.5 years. All of this happened while pagan Rome was in power. Pagan Rome destroyed the Temple on 70 AD…

All of these events took place in the Roman Empire in the 1st century AD.
Rome was known as the iron kingdom. God purposefully assigned specific metals to each of the 4 kingdoms for a reason- to properly identify each of them.

Chapter 11, after 11:4 begins just after the cross - obviously, still in pagan Rome in the early first century AD. Daniel is not about the end times - it is all about the Messiah and His plan of salvation for mankind.

Revelation then picks up in describing the 7 churches in John’s time (again, after the cross and after 70AD), and takes us through the next 2000 years.

It seems to me that we have very different End Time understandings of how it will unfold.

My understanding of the end times has evolved over nearly 30 years of considering and studying the scriptures.

I have determined that the time span from the creation of Adam until the final judgement can be determined just from the OT using a combination of chronology calculations and prophecy when married together.

Now there is a two-age gap (Jer 50:39) in the existence of Babylon between around 118 BC until 1926 AD when Babylon was remembered once more before God. (Rev 16:19b)

As for the timing of the fulfilment of Daniel 2:44a, it is still to come, and cannot proceed until the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and the children's children comes to the decreed conclusion of the fourth generation/age of the existence of the nation of Israel, from the time of Isaac's birth, in the year 2051 BC (Exodus 20:4-6 ).

At the same time that the fourth age of the nation of Israel is completed, the Daniel 8:13-14 will also be coming to its completion when the Kings of the earth, under the prompting of the Little Horn will make one last attempt to trample God's earthly Hosts, i.e. the nation of Israel, by assembling in the Land of Canaan at a place called Armageddon to be judged for their involvement in the schemes of the Little Horn to completely trample the nation of Israel so that it completely disappears from the face of the earth.

The timing for the kings gathering together can be determined from Matthew 24:32 from when the Fig tree, i.e. the nation of Israel, begins to bud fresh leaves, during the early spring, and when the Summer Season of harvest begins. It is my understanding that a Season has a duration of 1,000 years. The duration between when the leaves begin to bud in the early spring until the start of the Summer Season, is around 96 years in the year around 2044 AD.

It is during the time of these kings that God will establish His everlasting kingdom on the earth. It also marks the timing of when God will begin to gather the Israelites to Himself and to redeem them.

Paul also tells us that when the fullness with respect to time of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly Host draws to it completion, that after this all of Israel will be saved. (Romans 11:25b-26)

So, you have written a book. I had a friend many years ago who also wrote a book and rewrote the book and changed some of the details when, what he thought would happen, did not pan out the way he thought it would. He kept changing the year that he thought Christ would return.

On another forum, now defunct, a member also wrote a book on Islam and its part in the end times. He named all 14 entities, i.e. countries, who he thought were the beasts, the little horn and the ten horns. Even then I disagreed with this approach and believed that the beasts and the Little Horn were fallen angles who influenced people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires to inhabit their dominions to do their respective biddings. The beasts caused the sea to rise up and manifest the primary characteristic of the respective beasts.

Even now there are so many theories as to how we should understand the end time prophecies that what we actually know is nothing more than confusion.

This forum with all of the theories also adds to the confusion among the people who want to know the truth.

Shalom

 

[CTK]

The term "pagan Rome" does not appear in Daniel 7, nor any place in the bible.

Now answer my question...

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person ?

II have asked you to answer my question over 12 times now.. and you still refuse, yet you now insist I answer yours?

Good bye.

 

[CTK]

It seems to me that we have very different End Time understandings of how it will unfold.

My understanding of the end times has evolved over nearly 30 years of considering and studying the scriptures.

I have determined that the time span from the creation of Adam until the final judgement can be determined just from the OT using a combination of chronology calculations and prophecy when married together.

Now there is a two-age gap (Jer 50:39) in the existence of Babylon between around 118 BC until 1926 AD when Babylon was remembered once more before God. (Rev 16:19b)

As for the timing of the fulfilment of Daniel 2:44a is still to come and cannot proceed until the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and the children's children comes to the conclusion of the fourth generation/age of the existence of the nation of Israel from the time of Isaac's birth in the year 2051 BC (Exodus 20:4-6 ).

At the same time that the fourth age of the nation of Israel is completed, the Daniel 8:13-14 will also be completed when the Kings of the earth, under the prompting of the Little Horn will make one last attempt to trample God's earthly Hosts, i.e. the nation of Israel, by assembling in the Land of Canaan at a place called Armageddon to be judged for their involvement in the schemes of the Little Horn to completely trample the nation of Israel into disappearing totally from the face of the earth.

The timing for the kings gathering together can be determined from Matthew 24:32 from when the Fig tree, i.e. the nation of Israel, begins to bud fresh leaves, during the early spring, and when the Summer Season of harvest begins. It is my understanding that a Season has a duration of 1,000 years.

It is during the time of these kings that God will establish His everlasting kingdom on the earth. It also marks the timing of when God will begin to gather the Israelites to Himself and to redeem them.

Paul also tells us that when the fullness with respect to time of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly Host draws to it completion, that after this all of Israel will be saved. (Romans 11:25b-26)

So, you have written a book. I had a friend many years ago who also wrote a book and rewrote the book and changed some of the details when, what he thought would happen, did not pan out the way he thought it would. He kept changes the year that he thought Christ would return.

On another forum, now defunct, a member also wrote a book on Islam and its part in the end times. He named all 14 entities, i.e. countries, who he thought were the beasts, the little horn and the ten horns. Even then I disagreed with this approach and believed that the beasts and the Little Horn were fallen angles who influenced people groups, kingdoms, nations and empires to inhabit their dominions to do their respective biddings. The beasts caused the sea to rise up and manifest the primary characteristic of the respective beasts.

Even now there are so many theories as to how we should understand the end time prophecies that what we actually know is nothing more than confusion.

This forum with all of the theories also adds to the confusion among the people who want to know the truth.

Shalom

Very well.

 

[Jay Ross]

Very well.

What are you trying to say.

 

[Douggg]

II have asked you to answer my question over 12 times now.. and you still refuse, yet you now insist I answer yours?

Good bye.

I answered your question in my post #65....

"As to your question, the EU (the Roman kingdom manifested in the end times) will be dismantled and not allowed to reunite when Jesus returns."
---------------------------------------------------------
Now answer my question...

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person ?

 

[CTK]

I answered your question in my post #65....

"As to your question, the EU (the Roman kingdom manifested in the end times) will be dismantled and not allowed to reunite when Jesus returns."
---------------------------------------------------------
Now answer my question...

Who, the specific name of the person, are you claiming was the little horn person ?

Ignore!

 

[Douggg]

Ignore!

So your claim that the little horn existed before 476 AD was a false claim, because you cannot give his specific name of who he was ?

 

[Dave Watchman]

I have asked you this question at least 10 times over the past 2 years and you continue to refuse to answer... I will ask you one more time - do you agree the scriptures in chapter 7 tell us the 4th beast will be slain (7:11) can only be pagan Rome in 476 AD which tells us the little horn and the 10 horns have already come out of this same 4th kingdom? Read and study the first 11 verses of chapter 7.

I remember how you like to keep Daniel and Revelation separate Charlie, but they do share a couple of the prophetic time periods, like the time, times and half a time, so Revelation 12 might give some insight, or more figurative detail into the Foxe Book Days.

My quick answer on the name of the little horn is the bishop of Rome from 311 to his death on 10 or 11 January 314. Pope Miltiades. Because it was during his pontificate that Emperor Constantine the Great issued the Edict of Milan (313), giving Christianity legal status within the Roman Empire. That Pope really was the indicator of when Satan began using the office of the Vatican as his proxy, and the Church and State began growing it's great iron teeth.

The time from pagan Rome, to the holy Roman Empire didn't seem to take place overnight. In that time we saw the "three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots." These were the Ostrogoths, the Heruli, and the Vandals. I like the Vandals. The Mediterranean Sea used to be called the "Sea of the Vandals." Just read the Wiki page on the Vandals and their end. It's very good, they should make a movie of it. They were effectively removed by the Church in Rome, they disappeared, plucked up by the roots, not a trace of them remained. It was scary. In the words of historian Roger Collins: "The remaining Vandals were then shipped back to Constantinople to be absorbed into the imperial army. As a distinct ethnic unit they disappeared."

Spoiler: The Vandals Turbulent End

"The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia states that "Gelimer was honourably treated and received large estates in Galatia. He was also offered the rank of a patrician but had to refuse it because he was not willing to change his Arian faith."[82] In the words of historian Roger Collins: "The remaining Vandals were then shipped back to Constantinople to be absorbed into the imperial army. As a distinct ethnic unit they disappeared."

Hilderic (523–530) was the Vandal king most tolerant towards the Catholic Church. He granted it religious freedom; consequently, Catholic synods were once more held in North Africa. However, he had little interest in war, and left it to a family member, Hoamer. When Hoamer suffered a defeat against the Moors, the Arian faction within the royal family led a revolt, raising the banner of national Arianism, and his cousin Gelimer (530–534) became king. Hilderic, Hoamer, and their relatives were thrown into prison.[84]

Byzantine Emperor Justinian I declared war, with the stated intention of restoring Hilderic to the Vandal throne. The deposed Hilderic was murdered in 533 on Gelimer's orders.[84] While an expedition was en route, a large part of the Vandal army and navy was led by Tzazo, Gelimer's brother, to Sardinia to deal with a rebellion. As a result, the armies of the Byzantine Empire commanded by Belisarius were able to land unopposed 10 miles (16 km) from Carthage. Gelimer quickly assembled an army,[85] and met Belisarius at the Battle of Ad Decimum; the Vandals were winning until Gelimer's brother Ammatas and nephew Gibamund fell in battle. Gelimer then lost heart and fled. Belisarius quickly took Carthage while the surviving Vandals fought on.[86]

Vandal cavalryman, c. AD 500, from a mosaic pavement at Bordj Djedid near Carthage
North Africa, comprising northern Tunisia and eastern Algeria in the Vandal period, became a Roman province again, from which the Vandals were expelled. Many Vandals went to Saldae (today called Béjaïa in north Algeria) where they integrated with the Berbers. Many others were put into imperial service or fled to the two Gothic kingdoms: the Ostrogothic and the Visigothic. Some Vandal women married Byzantine soldiers and settled in north Algeria and Tunisia. The choicest Vandal warriors were formed into five cavalry regiments, known as Vandali Iustiniani, stationed on the Persian frontier. Some entered the private service of Belisarius.[87] The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia states that "Gelimer was honourably treated and received large estates in Galatia. He was also offered the rank of a patrician but had to refuse it because he was not willing to change his Arian faith."[82] In the words of historian Roger Collins: "The remaining Vandals were then shipped back to Constantinople to be absorbed into the imperial army. As a distinct ethnic unit they disappeared."[85] Few Vandals remained in North Africa, while more migrated back to Spain.[2] In 546 the Vandalic Dux of Numidia, Guntarith, defected from the Byzantines and raised a rebellion with Moorish support. He was able to capture Carthage, but was assassinated by the Byzantines shortly afterwards.[citation needed]

Vandals - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Another reason I would be posting on a Daniel 7 thread today is due to the current situation having to do with the Rapture dating.

In the Gospels Jesus is quoted as saying":

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

The Caesar who's image was on the penny at that time was Julius. One of the other things besides the penny that belonged to Julius Caesar was the method of measurement of the days Jesus was speaking in. They were in the times of the Julian Calendar.

"And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

And shall think to change times and laws.

Pope Gregory changed the calendar in 1582

The Gregorian calendar is the calendar used in most parts of the world.[1][a] It went into effect in October 1582 following the papal bull Inter gravissimas issued by Pope Gregory XIII, which introduced it as a modification of, and replacement for, the Julian calendar.

The tradition of celebrating New Year's Day on April 1 is linked to the Julian calendar, which was used in Europe before the adoption of the Gregorian calendar. In the Julian calendar, the start of the new year was observed around April 1, closely following the vernal equinox. This practice changed in 1582 when Pope Gregory XIII introduced the Gregorian calendar, shifting the beginning of the year to January 1.

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's

If the Reformers, some Historicists, the SDA's, and myself are correct that the 1260 years of Daniel 7 taking place in the middle ages, and the office of the Vatican was the little kingdom who sought to change times, the calendar and the law, then I would suspect there would be no possibility Jesus would be observing a calendar changed by this little horn. He would most certainly be using the Julian Calendar, the one used by some Orthodox Churches, and the one He was most recently using when His feet last walked the earth. In "like manner" He will return.

Voluntary Disclosure: I am not now, nor ever have been an Adventist. I've never been in or near a SDA Church. I can't be an SDA because I do not meet the minimum requirement of their list of doctrinal beliefs. I am a Sabbatarian Christian, so I will usually say Peaceful Sabbath. I don't have or attend a "church", I just rest within my gates on the 7th Day. I like it.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[CTK]

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I certainly agree with much of what you say. The little horn is indeed the papacy. But as you alluded to (unless I am incorrectly putting words in your mouth), the little horn came OUT of pagan Rome, but only after two things took place. One, even though EVERYONE has IMO grossly misinterpreted verse 2:34 - where they treat it and 2:35 as the same event that takes place at the end of time, they do NOT. In order for chapter 2, 7,8,9 and 11 to all speak the same prophetic language from God, verse 2:34 represents the Messiah, the Stone who will strike the feet (only) and break apart the iron and the clay components only within the feet. The 4th kingdom of Rome is made entirely of iron. However, God will place the symbol of clay WITHIN the feet to refer to His people the Jews. This is necessary because He is bringing everything to its intended ending of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. This prophecy began in 457 BC and shows the measures that the Jews will take during this period (first 483 years) when they are given the responsibility to restore everything that was either destroyed or taken away by the Babylonians. And they were 100 % successful. They restored all the physical elements - the Temple, the streets, the walls and also reinstuted the ceremonies, the Sabbaticals, the feast days, - their ways of living and worshipping their God just as it was prior to the exile. The ONLY element they could not restore is the very first item taken away by Jeremiah - the Ark of the Covenant. The ARK would never be seen again and this is purposeful because this is the final restorative item that would be fulfilled by Jesus - He would restore the Presence of God in the Sanctuary. So, this all ties in to 2:34 being His first coming while 2:35 is His return when He will judge and destroy all of man's kingdoms. This is also why the languarge within 2:35 includes that of the threshing floor - this is clearly the end time event. This threshing floor scene separates 2:34 from 2:35 - and futher, Jesus is the Stone that separates or divides, He did not come to destroy.

So He symbolically strikes the feet and separates the iron (Rome) from the clay (Jewish people). If you unpack the most complicated verses in chapter 2 - 2:41-45, you will discover that as a result of the "striking" there are now two types of clay - pottery clay which represents those Jews who accepted Jesus as their Messiah and ceramic or miry clay - those Jews who rejected Him. The pottery clay Jews would go out into the empire preaching the Good News to the Gentiles. And within these same verses, God reveals the beginning of His church and also how it will be terribly corrupted - corrupted by this little horn.

After the cross, the Jewish Christians were tremenedously successful in converting millions of Gentiles throughout the Roman empire. But instead of staying as a humble Christ preaching Jewish Christian movement, it became a Gentile dominated Gentile Christian movement with layers of powers - priests, presbyters, bishops with immense powers over the followers. By the time of Constantine, this Gentile dominated Christian church looked nothing like the humble first century preaching by the Apostles. Now, those in command, the bishops had power and prestige and coming close to insisting on even being worshipped.

This is exactly how the "little horn" came to be. He was simply one of the million of Gentiles that were converted during the first 300 years and where these powerful people developed a hierachial power system throughout the empire. They were still subordinate to pagan Rome, but after Constantine legalized the Christian religion and within another 50 years it became the official religion of the pagan Roman empirt, there was no turning back. This "Gentile Christian institution" was a monster. Then in 476 AD (7:11), pagan Rome was slain and then the Christian Church replaced it during the next 100 years. In 538 AD, they were officially given power and authority over both civil and all religious matters. Now, they were the "divided 4th kingdom" of Rome - which would become Papal Rome.

So, this is how the little horn came to be - and it is why the little horn only surfaced AFTER the cross - in chapter 2 there was no little horn because there was not Christian church - but in chapter 7, God shows us what takes place after the cross. His pottery clay (Jews) go out and preach the Good News, the millions of Gentiles accept Jesus, they form a powerful organization identified as the Christian church and form its structure no differently that the military like structure of pagan Rome with layers of powers and rules and so on. And as with any organization or institution, there has to be someone at the top - that will happen to be the most powerful bishop - the bishop of Rome who would be come to be known as the pope, and prophetically, the little horn.

And of course, they never looked back but as the Scriptures tell us, they would gain immense power unlike the other 3 kingdoms befor it. Further, this little horn will continue until the end of time when he will be destroyed without human hands.

Regarding your comment on the time element in 7:25 and also in 12:7.... they indeed speak of the exact same event. But it is not what you think. This time element tells us WHEN (not the exact date of course because no one knows that date - only the Father) of His return.

There is so, so much more to Daniel that what is or has been interpreted in any of the commentaries out there.... because one has to interpret Daniel through the lens of the Messiah and His plan of salvation revealed through these 4 kingdoms and through these time element prophecies in Daniel. They speak of Him, not a secular kingdom or secular event. The 4 kingdoms are not the story, the 4 kingdoms is where God reveals His story as His people are restored back from exile in Babylon. And it all comes together with the first coming of the Messiah. Hey, I hear there is a very good commentary that just came out... and it is free for the time being.... let me know1

God bless, and a blessed Sabbath.

 

[Douggg]

I remember how you like to keep Daniel and Revelation separate Charlie, but they do share a couple of the prophetic time periods, like the time, times and half a time, so Revelation 12 might give some insight, or more figurative detail into the Foxe Book Days.

My quick answer on the name of the little horn is the bishop of Rome from 311 to his death on 10 or 11 January 314. Pope Miltiades. Because it was during his pontificate that Emperor Constantine the Great issued the Edict of Milan (313), giving Christianity legal status within the Roman Empire. That Pope really was the indicator of when Satan began using the office of the Vatican as his proxy, and the Church and State began growing it's great iron teeth.

The time from pagan Rome, to the holy Roman Empire didn't seem to take place overnight. In that time we saw the "three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots." These were the Ostrogoths, the Heruli, and the Vandals. I like the Vandals. The Mediterranean Sea used to be called the "Sea of the Vandals." Just read the Wiki page on the Vandals and their end. It's very good, they should make a movie of it. They were effectively removed by the Church in Rome, they disappeared, plucked up by the roots, not a trace of them remained. It was scary. In the words of historian Roger Collins: "The remaining Vandals were then shipped back to Constantinople to be absorbed into the imperial army. As a distinct ethnic unit they disappeared."

Spoiler: The Vandals Turbulent End

"The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia states that "Gelimer was honourably treated and received large estates in Galatia. He was also offered the rank of a patrician but had to refuse it because he was not willing to change his Arian faith."[82] In the words of historian Roger Collins: "The remaining Vandals were then shipped back to Constantinople to be absorbed into the imperial army. As a distinct ethnic unit they disappeared."

Hilderic (523–530) was the Vandal king most tolerant towards the Catholic Church. He granted it religious freedom; consequently, Catholic synods were once more held in North Africa. However, he had little interest in war, and left it to a family member, Hoamer. When Hoamer suffered a defeat against the Moors, the Arian faction within the royal family led a revolt, raising the banner of national Arianism, and his cousin Gelimer (530–534) became king. Hilderic, Hoamer, and their relatives were thrown into prison.[84]

Byzantine Emperor Justinian I declared war, with the stated intention of restoring Hilderic to the Vandal throne. The deposed Hilderic was murdered in 533 on Gelimer's orders.[84] While an expedition was en route, a large part of the Vandal army and navy was led by Tzazo, Gelimer's brother, to Sardinia to deal with a rebellion. As a result, the armies of the Byzantine Empire commanded by Belisarius were able to land unopposed 10 miles (16 km) from Carthage. Gelimer quickly assembled an army,[85] and met Belisarius at the Battle of Ad Decimum; the Vandals were winning until Gelimer's brother Ammatas and nephew Gibamund fell in battle. Gelimer then lost heart and fled. Belisarius quickly took Carthage while the surviving Vandals fought on.[86]

Vandal cavalryman, c. AD 500, from a mosaic pavement at Bordj Djedid near Carthage
North Africa, comprising northern Tunisia and eastern Algeria in the Vandal period, became a Roman province again, from which the Vandals were expelled. Many Vandals went to Saldae (today called Béjaïa in north Algeria) where they integrated with the Berbers. Many others were put into imperial service or fled to the two Gothic kingdoms: the Ostrogothic and the Visigothic. Some Vandal women married Byzantine soldiers and settled in north Algeria and Tunisia. The choicest Vandal warriors were formed into five cavalry regiments, known as Vandali Iustiniani, stationed on the Persian frontier. Some entered the private service of Belisarius.[87] The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia states that "Gelimer was honourably treated and received large estates in Galatia. He was also offered the rank of a patrician but had to refuse it because he was not willing to change his Arian faith."[82] In the words of historian Roger Collins: "The remaining Vandals were then shipped back to Constantinople to be absorbed into the imperial army. As a distinct ethnic unit they disappeared."[85] Few Vandals remained in North Africa, while more migrated back to Spain.[2] In 546 the Vandalic Dux of Numidia, Guntarith, defected from the Byzantines and raised a rebellion with Moorish support. He was able to capture Carthage, but was assassinated by the Byzantines shortly afterwards.[citation needed]

Vandals - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Another reason I would be posting on a Daniel 7 thread today is due to the current situation having to do with the Rapture dating.

In the Gospels Jesus is quoted as saying":

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

The Caesar who's image was on the penny at that time was Julius. One of the other things besides the penny that belonged to Julius Caesar was the method of measurement of the days Jesus was speaking in. They were in the times of the Julian Calendar.

"And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

And shall think to change times and laws.

Pope Gregory changed the calendar in 1582

The Gregorian calendar is the calendar used in most parts of the world.[1][a] It went into effect in October 1582 following the papal bull Inter gravissimas issued by Pope Gregory XIII, which introduced it as a modification of, and replacement for, the Julian calendar.

The tradition of celebrating New Year's Day on April 1 is linked to the Julian calendar, which was used in Europe before the adoption of the Gregorian calendar. In the Julian calendar, the start of the new year was observed around April 1, closely following the vernal equinox. This practice changed in 1582 when Pope Gregory XIII introduced the Gregorian calendar, shifting the beginning of the year to January 1.

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's

If the Reformers, some Historicists, the SDA's, and myself are correct that the 1260 years of Daniel 7 taking place in the middle ages, and the office of the Vatican was the little kingdom who sought to change times, the calendar and the law, then I would suspect there would be no possibility Jesus would be observing a calendar changed by this little horn. He would most certainly be using the Julian Calendar, the one used by some Orthodox Churches, and the one He was most recently using when His feet last walked the earth. In "like manner" He will return.

Voluntary Disclosure: I am not now, nor ever have been an Adventist. I've never been in or near a SDA Church. I can't be an SDA because I do not meet the minimum requirement of their list of doctrinal beliefs. I am a Sabbatarian Christian, so I will usually say Peaceful Sabbath. I don't have or attend a "church", I just rest within my gates on the 7th Day. I like it.

Peaceful Sabbath.

The little horn is not an institution. The little horn is time of the end, not historic. Daniel 8:13-17.

There are not 1260 days (years in SDA view) in Daniel 7:25, but a time, times, half time.

 

[Douggg]

The ten horns of Daniel 7:24 are the ten horns of Revelation 17:12 who will reign with the beast for one hour (figuratively speaking for 42 months). They are end times kings.

 

[Jay Ross]

The ten horns of Daniel 7:24 are the ten horns of Revelation 17:12 who will reign with the beast for one hour (figuratively speaking for 42 months). They are end times kings.

Douggggg can you name them? Or are they lower angels with a given dominion over a particular form of religious understanding?

 

[Douggg]

Douggggg can you name them? Or are they lower angels with a given dominion over a particular form of religious understanding?

No, their identity has not been revealed yet. They will be a panel or group of EU leaders which the little horn person will be over. The little horn person's identity has not be revealed yet, either.

No, not angels.