Daniel 9:25 - the messiah the prince

[TribulationSigns]

So when interpreting the Bible we have to keep in mind that some things only exist in the minds of unbelievers, even when the Bible say things like the Jerusalem that now is. What other examples are there in the Bible of this sort of thing? Are the elements melting with fervent heat only taking place in the minds of unbelievers? If so then that could’ve been fulfilled in 70AD in the minds of the unbelieving Jews who didn’t flee, right?

Wait, what?

2Pe 3:9-10
(9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Do you believe that all of these along with the fervent heat took place at the 70AD?

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks David... would you be kind enough to elaborate on why the AOD is not the cross and also, your interpretation of the AOD? Thank you.

Why "Messiah being Cut-Off" is not the AOD:

#1 - All of Scripture, beginning in Genesis, Prophecies/Speaks of the Messiah as the Way of Salvation = in JOY
And in that day you will say:

“O Lord, I will praise You;
Though You were angry with me,
Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me.
2Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;
‘For Yah, the Lord, is my strength and song;
He also has become my salvation.’ ”

And Hannah prayed and said:

“My heart rejoices in the Lord;
My horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies,
Because I rejoice in Your salvation.
2“No one is holy like the Lord,
For there is none besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11[r]He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.


Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross,
despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

#2 - The LORD Jesus Christ separated Himself from the "Abomination of Desolation"

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.

@IndianaRob

 

[CTK]

Why "Messiah being Cut-Off" is not the AOD:

#1 - All of Scripture, beginning in Genesis, Prophecies/Speaks of the Messiah as the Way of Salvation = in JOY
And in that day you will say:

“O Lord, I will praise You;
Though You were angry with me,
Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me.
2Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;
‘For Yah, the Lord, is my strength and song;
He also has become my salvation.’ ”

And Hannah prayed and said:

“My heart rejoices in the Lord;
My horn is exalted in the Lord.
I smile at my enemies,
Because I rejoice in Your salvation.
2“No one is holy like the Lord,
For there is none besides You,
Nor is there any rock like our God.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11[r]He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.


Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross,
despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

#2 - The LORD Jesus Christ separated Himself from the "Abomination of Desolation"

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.

@IndianaRob

I am sorry to say that none of what you mentioned proves (at all) the AOD is not the cross. Why haven't you quoted verses in Daniel, and connect them to verses in the gospels? I asked you to tell me why the AOD is not the cross and to offer your understanding of what the AOD is... please take the time to try and answer those two questions using scripture and reasoning... not to offend you, but you just have opinion only.

 

[grafted branch]

Do you believe that all of these along with the fervent heat took place at the 70AD?

Using your hermeneutics a person can claim 2 Peter 3:9-10 all took place in 70AD by claiming it all took place in the minds of the unbelieving Jews. This is what happens when you over spiritualize, you can make the scriptures fit whatever narrative you have.

 

[David in NJ]

I am sorry to say that none of what you mentioned proves (at all) the AOD is not the cross. Why haven't you quoted verses in Daniel, and connect them to verses in the gospels? I asked you to tell me why the AOD is not the cross and to offer your understanding of what the AOD is... please take the time to try and answer those two questions using scripture and reasoning... not to offend you, but you just have opinion only.

REALLY?

It is CRYSTAL CLEAR from the Mouth of the LORD Jesus Christ in Matthew chapter 24

abomination /ə-bŏm″ə-nā′shən/

noun​

1. Abhorrence; disgust.
2. A cause of abhorrence or disgust.
3. The feeling of extreme disgust and hatred; abhorrence; detestation; loathing

Did the FATHER look upon His SON on the Cross with "disgust, hatred, abhorrence, detestation and loathing" ???

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

Was the Jesus Christ cruicified before 70AD or after???

 

[CTK]

REALLY?

It is CRYSTAL CLEAR from the Mouth of the LORD Jesus Christ in Matthew chapter 24

abomination /ə-bŏm″ə-nā′shən/

noun​

1. Abhorrence; disgust.
2. A cause of abhorrence or disgust.
3. The feeling of extreme disgust and hatred; abhorrence; detestation; loathing

Did the FATHER look upon His SON on the Cross with "disgust, hatred, abhorrence, detestation and loathing" ???

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

Was the Jesus Christ cruicified before 70AD or after???

Once again, just because you have a strong opinion does not mean you have a strong understanding of scripture. And in this case, you don't. I have asked you to take the time to study Daniel and perhaps even try to connect those prophetic verses to the gospels...

So, specifically, what does Matthew 24 tell you is the AOD? Matthew 24 is not a one topic chapter... please explain how and why those specific verses in 24 tell us what or who is the AOD....

And, what about Daniel? Don't we find the first mention of the AOD in Daniel? More than once.... And doesn't Daniel also speak to the AOD in Revelation?

Please take the time before you just read some other's misinterpretations.... thanks.

 

[David in NJ]

Once again, just because you have a strong opinion does not mean you have a strong understanding of scripture. And in this case, you don't. I have asked you to take the time to study Daniel and perhaps even try to connect those prophetic verses to the gospels...

So, specifically, what does Matthew 24 tell you is the AOD? Matthew 24 is not a one topic chapter... please explain how and why those specific verses in 24 tell us what or who is the AOD....

And, what about Daniel? Don't we find the first mention of the AOD in Daniel? More than once.... And doesn't Daniel also speak to the AOD in Revelation?

Please take the time before you just read some other's misinterpretations.... thanks.

Please READ your own post - at least 3 times

i will pause until you READ your own post here = and then i will respond

 

[CTK]

Please READ your own post - at least 3 times

i will pause until you READ your own post here = and then i will respond

I see.... have a good day....

 

[TribulationSigns]

Using your hermeneutics a person can claim 2 Peter 3:9-10 all took place in 70AD by claiming it all took place in the minds of the unbelieving Jews. This is what happens when you over spiritualize, you can make the scriptures fit whatever narrative you have.

LOL. That’s quite a leap.

I never said—or taught—that 2 Peter 3:9–10 was fulfilled in 70 AD. You simply invented an argument I don’t hold and then proceeded to attack it. That’s not a refutation; that’s arguing against your own imagination.

2 Peter 3:9–10 has nothing to do with my position concerning 70 AD. So before accusing someone of “over-spiritualizing” Scripture, you might want to actually understand what they believe first.

You can keep trying to force my position into a narrative that you created, but that doesn’t make your accusation true. You can’t refute an argument I never made!