Is this what your head looks like?Phoneman777 said:Jesuit Preterist,
Protestant Historicist
Jesuit Preterism
Jesuit Futurism
Protestant Historicism.
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Is this what your head looks like?Phoneman777 said:Jesuit Preterist,
Protestant Historicist
Jesuit Preterism
Jesuit Futurism
Protestant Historicism.
Nah, it's more of a reflection of church history.ATP said:Is this what your head looks like?
God can add a gap wherever He wants. He is the beginning and end of all things.Phoneman777 said:Incidentally, are you able to identify any numerically specific time prophecy in the Bible that had a "gap" inserted into it?
Hi Phoneman777,Phoneman777 said:This principle that Jesus came to "finish the transgression and to make an end of sins" in the life of the believer is taught throughout Scripture, such as Hebrews 10:12-14 KJV; Isaiah 53:5 KJV; and Romans 8:1 KJV:
"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
"But He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed."
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit."
None of us will argue that Jesus died on the Cross to give us a license to keep on sinning, but rather to give forgiveness of sin and power to be victorious over sin to all who come to Him in repentance and faith.
There are gaps in the time frame of several prophesies, Here are a few; http://housetops.me/2012/01/14/gaps-in-prophecy-vs-the-gap-theory/Phoneman777 said:Incidentally, are you able to identify any numerically specific time prophecy in the Bible that had a "gap" inserted into it?
ATP, you are being very inconsistent. When arguing in favor of OSAS, you readily claim that "transgression and sin" are finished and ended in the life of believers and is no longer associated with them regardless of whatever deliberate sinful behavior a believer manifests..ATP said:Because Jesus died for the whole world Phone. There's also five other tasks..
Not God, but you Jesuit Futurist aficionados.ATP said:God can add a gap wherever He wants. He is the beginning and end of all things.
Brother, it should be obvious to you, as it is to everyone else, that Jesus was six months into His earthly ministry when He made this prophetic reference to the remaining "3 days" of that ministry. What happened "3 years" later? Calvary, where His ministry on Earth was "perfected" or "completed". His words have nothing to do with "millenniums".keras said:Jesus prophesied the 2000 year gap from His baptism until His Return. Luke 13:32 ....today and tomorrow I shall be working and on the 3rd day, I shall have My reward. [be perfected, KJV]
This means for two days, Jesus will work on earth, commencing with His 3 year ministry and then with His spiritual work with individuals; Paul on the Damascus road was the first of many the Jesus has revealed Himself to. Then on the 3rd Day, He will Return for His Millennial reign.
Two witnesses confirm that 1 day to the Lord is as 1000 years. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8 And the Millennium is 1000 years. Revelation 20:6
That this is a correct interpretation is proved by the next verse, Luke 13:33 where Jesus says: but today and tomorrow, I must go on My way, then meet My death in Jerusalem. Also confirmed by Hosea 6:2 After 2 days He will revive us and on the third day, He will raise us to live in His presence.
These are Bible truths, denial of them is a serious error.
Lets hear no more of the 'Jesuit' accusations, none of us here have any kind of affiliation with them or their beliefs.
I would rather call it a delay but this doesn't make me think there's a gap in the 70 weeks. The only evidence for a gap that I can see is between the 7 weeks and 62 weeks, these may have been kept separate for more than one reason but I wouldn't call it a "gap".keras said:There HAS been a gap - of nearly 2000 years since Jesus lived and died.
I don't think I'm the one requiring mental gymnastics bro. The 70 weeks are about the people Phone...Phoneman777 said:ATP, you are being very inconsistent. When arguing in favor of OSAS, you readily claim that "transgression and sin" are finished and ended in the life of believers and is no longer associated with them regardless of whatever deliberate sinful behavior a believer manifests..
But, here when I present the very same idea that Jesus "finished the transgression and made an end of sins" in the lives of 1st century Jewish believers in Jerusalem - Jews and Jerusalem being the two things to which the prophecy itself claims to apply - you are now falling all over yourself to deny this very plausible, acceptable, Biblical interpretation b/c you know that evidence for a "gap theory" is so non-existent that you must subjectively rule out any other interpretation of verse 24 no matter how legitimate they may be so that your own biased interpretation of "finished the transgression and made and end of sins in the whole world everywhere" can be the basis for "gap theory", which we find in no other numerically specific time prophecy in all of Scripture. I'm so glad that Historicism does not require the mental gymnastics and first rate subjective creative eschatology of Jesuit Futurism and its "gap theory".
So, you deny that Jesus did "finish the transgression and to make an end of sins" in the lives of first century Jewish believers?ATP said:I don't think I'm the one requiring mental gymnastics bro. The 70 weeks are about the people Phone...
Dan 9:24 NIV "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
1. How are transgressions already complete for the people? The English word 'finish' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kala', which means 'to restrict', 'hold back', or 'prohibit'. When transgressions are restricted or held back (kala), they do not exist.
2. Sin is a violation of God's law. So if people are still sinning how are the 70 weeks complete?
3. Lawlessness is a violation of God's law. So if people are still lawless how are the 70 weeks complete? The English word 'reconciliation' is translated from the Hebrew word 'kaphar', which has a purely theological meaning. It refers to the process by which physical defilement (impurity) and spiritual and moral sin is covered or set aside.
4. How is everlasting righteousness already complete for His people? Everlasting righteousness cannot exist where a violation of God's law exists; because, to be totally righteous is to be God-like in every aspect of one's being.
Jesus died for the whole world, not just a group of people. Jesus died at the 483rd year. When Jesus died on the cross He died for everyone Phone.Phoneman777 said:So, you deny that Jesus did "finish the transgression and to make an end of sins" in the lives of first century Jewish believers?
You didn't answer the question. Did Jesus "finish the transgression and make an end of sins" in the lives of those Jews who believed on Him?ATP said:Jesus died for the whole world, not just a group of people. Jesus died at the 483rd year. When Jesus died on the cross He died for everyone Phone.
Jesus' death will NOT "finish the transgression and make an end of sins" in the lives of the people of the whole world, ATP. The majority of the world will be lost.ATP said:Jesus died for the whole world, not just a group of people. Jesus died at the 483rd year. When Jesus died on the cross He died for everyone Phone.
That's why salvation is a gift. Jesus died for the whole world, but you must believe to obtain the gift. The Jewish remnant will believe on Him at the end of the 70 weeks.Phoneman777 said:Jesus' death will NOT "finish the transgression and make an end of sins" in the lives of the people of the whole world, ATP. The majority of the world will be lost.
What is obvious is that Jesus has not yet reached His goal. He hasn't fulfilled all those prophesies about His coming as a King to reign on earth. All those prophesies the 1st century Jews were confused by, will happen AFTER the two 'days' that Jesus said would pass before He would Return as King.Phoneman777 said:Brother, it should be obvious to you, as it is to everyone else, that Jesus was six months into His earthly ministry when He made this prophetic reference to the remaining "3 days" of that ministry. What happened "3 years" later? Calvary, where His ministry on Earth was "perfected" or "completed". His words have nothing to do with "millenniums".
Also, brother, I respect that you do not wish to be identified with the Jesuit Order - it's just that it's so unfortunately that your eschatological ideas are found to be so identical to their eschatological ideas.
Good post keras.keras said:What is obvious is that Jesus has not yet reached His goal. He hasn't fulfilled all those prophesies about His coming as a King to reign on earth. All those prophesies the 1st century Jews were confused by, will happen AFTER the two 'days' that Jesus said would pass before He would Return as King.
Its just your preterist opinion saying Jesus' prophecy in Luke 13:32 has nothing to do with Millenniums. Jesus said He was a prophet in verse 33.
What is even more obvious, is the nearly 2000 years that have passed since Jesus' first Advent. Have you seen the addition of the years from Adam to Jesus? They add to exactly 4000 years. Still to come is the last 1000 years, that will complete the 7 'day' Plan of God for humankind.
My eschatology is purely from the Bible. If the Jesuits actually got some things right, good for them!
What your Jesuit Futurist view has blinded you to is the difference between Jesuit Preterism and Protestant Historicism. It has also blinded you to the fact that the 70 Weeks don't have anything to do with Jesus' Second Coming as "King", but have everything to do with His First Coming as the Messiah and the six objectives mentioned in Daniel 9:24 KJV which He completed during His first advent:keras said:What is obvious is that Jesus has not yet reached His goal. He hasn't fulfilled all those prophesies about His coming as a King to reign on earth. All those prophesies the 1st century Jews were confused by, will happen AFTER the two 'days' that Jesus said would pass before He would Return as King.
Its just your preterist opinion saying Jesus' prophecy in Luke 13:32 has nothing to do with Millenniums. Jesus said He was a prophet in verse 33.
What is even more obvious, is the nearly 2000 years that have passed since Jesus' first Advent. Have you seen the addition of the years from Adam to Jesus? They add to exactly 4000 years. Still to come is the last 1000 years, that will complete the 7 'day' Plan of God for humankind.
My eschatology is purely from the Bible. If the Jesuits actually got some things right, good for them!