Daring Death - a Sin?

[Sword]

what are you talking about are you female? you sure are emotional about how the OPer feels. the truth set one free not a bunch of feel goods.

anyone who has been brought to desperate situation is defiantly Job. and if you've read the book of Job you would understand of which is seems you've haven't. it also seems apparent that you may have not been through anything desperate and painful. so maybe you should leave this type of discussion to those have been there done that and lost that t-shirt also. Job had a two way conversation with the Almighty, that's closer to same God then over 90% of so called Christians claim to pray to.


its amazing how one can't say anything around here with some jerk off expecting you to prove it or explain it, and its probably because the lights are on, but nobody is home. its rare anyone is that stupid there Sa-Ward. oh I forgot your self important I keep forgetting that. you do know that pride is stupidity, right? you can put me on you ignore list please.

Ok I see you have much knowledge about me and what I am and what I am not. But do you have any scriptures to back up what you believe to be correct. or any scripture to show everyone in here how I am wrong. Jerk off is that a reference to someone masterbating? Is that how you really want to talk in a Christian forum? Your calling me a materbater? Man you are so hurt and living for self. So I understand and am not offended at ya. You just so hurt. I dont need to put you on any list. I just need to love you in your dispear man,. You are acting the way you are acting because you dont know you are loved by Jesus and me. If you knew you were loved you would not talk like that to a brother. Every thing I said is a scriptural fact wiether you know it to be or not. You are blind and willfully ignorant. You have no scripture,but feel qualified to teach me.

 

[OzSpen]

i can only ask you to consider that the Bible even says that it is written in such a way so as to deceive, be "seen and not seen," in parables to confound the evil, etc. And the authors are acknowledged to have thought dialectically, google can explain more, but it is worth considering that the Bible was not written logically at all.

i can only ask you to consider that the Bible even says that it is written in such a way so as to deceive, be "seen and not seen," in parables to confound the evil, etc. And the authors are acknowledged to have thought dialectically, google can explain more, but it is worth considering that the Bible was not written logically at all.

And you gave not one example from the Bible to support your case. Not one! I'm unimpressed.

Dialectical thinking is a form of analytical reasoning that pursues knowledge and truth as long as there are questions and conflicts. One inhibition to its use is that it can easily be abused--most modern uses of the dialectical paradigm known as the "Socratic Method" essentially are abuses of dialectical thinking. In an explicit teaching model, students are taught, through direct example (and non-example), that seemingly opposing views of reality can be reconciled into a meaning more reasonable than either of the seemingly contradictory positions (source).​

I find your claim is obnoxious: 'the Bible even says that it is written in such a way so as to deceive'. Please provide biblical evidence to back up your statement.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

what can be interpreted as logical statements are being made with the full knowledge that they are directly contradicted in other passages of Scripture, but in such a way that it is hard to dispute either. quite ingenious really

You have a bad habit, IMO, of making flaming statements like, 'being made with the full knowledge that they are directly contradicted in other passages of Scripture', without any support from Scripture.

They are out of your own mind but I don't know they come from Scripture when you give not one scriptural reference to support your statements here.

Oz

 

[bbyrd009]

While there may also be another level: Any other "level" can not overthrow the plain and simple reading of the text from my perspective.

ok well when a plain and simple reading has one dismissing or skimming over entire parables because they are being read as history that no longer applies to a seeker today, then i suggest reading with different eyes; and if no fruit is forthcoming, only then would i accept a completely literal interpretation.

As long as the parable of Esau is just an interesting historical perspective of a "bad guy," Scripture is not functioning as It states--for instruction, etc. Try putting yourself in the place of Esau, as uncomfortable as that may be on the moment, and then understanding how we "despise our birthright" starts to make sense.

Yes, there is obvious symbolism employed particularly in the Prophets as you mentioned one such case in a subsequent post.

Ezekiel speaks of Job in the company of Noah and Daniel, saying they would deliver only their own souls by their righteousness.

As for Job though, given all that befell him, one can hardly blame him.

then you might see that Job was a sinner, saved by grace, and he perfectly reps the next seeker you will interact with, whose building will also be tested by fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

Whatever happened to the first of the two?

short answer, you are maybe looking for the commendations of other men, directly, in a forum where we come to dissect beliefs. But irl you are, hopefully, practicing your faith, which is not the same thing. You seem to be seeking the Good News Cafe with all due respect, may it rip.

Fwiw that would drive you nuts in like a day lol. Prolly.

 

[bbyrd009]

And yet, the "sword" has a rather obvious meaning from my perspective.

the other symbols are no less clear imo, and are actually defined in other passages of Scripture. We know "the sea" is often "people," "mountain" = "where God is," etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess to some people, Jesus Christ is just coming back to have a jolly good time, you know, the touchy feely, hippy version of Jesus that's become popular.

Christ is not coming back until you manifest Him, though, and imo at least a drone-bombing, automatic-rifle-carrying version is going to be taken away, and given to a nation that better manifests the fruit of Christ.

Because like it or not, the religious Christians are the ones currently in control of the world. All those American soldiers currently guarding stolen poppy fields in Afghanistan identify as "Christian." You might reflect upon how it is that you, the most pampered person on the planet, can hardly wait for Jesus to come and rescue you, whose religion has control of the planet, as you simultaneously deem it all "going down the toilet."

 

[bbyrd009]

While I hear and understand what you are saying, it is far to subjective from my perspective.

yet you cannot name a single objective truth from Scripture, not one doctrine that is not Scripturally counterable; at least i do not think you can.

For if someone thinks/feels they are bearing fruit with such so to speak, we can end up with the "Gospel of SA".

to that i would say that one cannot "think" they are bearing fruit; there is either fruit there, or not. But of course i also understand you, and i guess it is our peers who might point out any unintended victims, or how some fruit might not be "unto repentance," so i agree.

Approaching truth requires at least two opinions, and preferably three; a concept amply outlined in Scripture imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

Understood.

see the difference in that and some new perspective that i might imagine from Scripture, where i can't wait to tell everyone in forum, seeking accolades or whatever.

 

[bbyrd009]

You have a bad habit, IMO, of making flaming statements like, 'being made with the full knowledge that they are directly contradicted in other passages of Scripture', without any support from Scripture.

They are out of your own mind but I don't know they come from Scripture when you give not one scriptural reference to support your statements here.

Oz

ah, i thought i was clear that this is a working theory, and this is why i invited you to state an absolute truth from Scripture, to test it.

And i have given several examples, "provide for your family," and "don't work for food," etc, i just gave a different one recently, forgot what. By all means, if you can think of a refute, let's hear it!

 

[bbyrd009]

And you gave not one example from the Bible to support your case. Not one! I'm unimpressed.

Dialectical thinking is a form of analytical reasoning that pursues knowledge and truth as long as there are questions and conflicts. One inhibition to its use is that it can easily be abused--most modern uses of the dialectical paradigm known as the "Socratic Method" essentially are abuses of dialectical thinking. In an explicit teaching model, students are taught, through direct example (and non-example), that seemingly opposing views of reality can be reconciled into a meaning more reasonable than either of the seemingly contradictory positions (source).​

I find your claim is obnoxious: 'the Bible even says that it is written in such a way so as to deceive'. Please provide biblical evidence to back up your statement.

Oz

"...Dialectical reasoning is actually opposed to formal logic in many ways.

Western Logic Versus Eastern Dialecticism
Aristotle placed at the foundations of logical thought the following three propositions.
1. Identity: A = A. Whatever is, is. A is itself and not some other thing.
2. Noncontradiction: A and not A can't both be the case. Nothing can both be and not be. A proposition and its opposite can't both be true.
3. Excluded middle: Everything must either be or not be. A or not A can be true but not something in between.

Modern Westerners accept these propositions (but Easterners do not)...
...three principles underlie Eastern dialecticism. Notice I didn't say "propositions..." the term "proposition" has much too formal a ring for what is a generalized stance toward the world rather than a set of ironclad rules.

1. Principle of change:
Reality is a process of change.
What is currently true will shortly be false.
2. Principle of contradiction:
Contradiction is the dynamic underlying change.
Because change is constant, contradiction is constant.
3. Principle of relationships (or holism):
The whole is more than the sum of its parts.
Parts are meaningful only in relation to the whole...

These principles are intimately linked...
The principles also imply another important tenet of Eastern thought, which is the insistence on finding the "middle way" between extreme propositions...
...and Talmudic scholars developed it over the next two millennia and more.

"Mindware" Richard E. Nisbett, pp. 224-5

Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

 

[bbyrd009]

I find your claim is obnoxious: 'the Bible even says that it is written in such a way so as to deceive'. Please provide biblical evidence to back up your statement.

parables are given so that the evil do not understand etc, will serve to illuminate the meaning imo. Why don't the evil understand a parable, iow?

 

[DPMartin]

Ok I see you have much knowledge about me and what I am and what I am not. But do you have any scriptures to back up what you believe to be correct. or any scripture to show everyone in here how I am wrong. Jerk off is that a reference to someone masterbating? Is that how you really want to talk in a Christian forum? Your calling me a materbater? Man you are so hurt and living for self. So I understand and am not offended at ya. You just so hurt. I dont need to put you on any list. I just need to love you in your dispear man,. You are acting the way you are acting because you dont know you are loved by Jesus and me. If you knew you were loved you would not talk like that to a brother. Every thing I said is a scriptural fact wiether you know it to be or not. You are blind and willfully ignorant. You have no scripture,but feel qualified to teach me.

Sa-ward I’m not going to get into a pointless peeing match about you, that you always seem to invite yourself to get into, with others here. And no, I don’t know you, thank the Lord and have no interest in knowing you, but you do on this site like to make conversations about you, like the world is supposed to revolve around you. And welcome any remarks about you and seem to lead or set up conversations to talk about you, no matter if it be pro or con. So, from what I see you’ve posted here, you want use to see you as something special. So, when I saw this scripture it reminded me of what you come across as in your postings.

Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.

 

[Sword]

Sa-ward I’m not going to get into a pointless peeing match about you, that you always seem to invite yourself to get into, with others here. And no, I don’t know you, thank the Lord and have no interest in knowing you, but you do on this site like to make conversations about you, like the world is supposed to revolve around you. And welcome any remarks about you and seem to lead or set up conversations to talk about you, no matter if it be pro or con. So, from what I see you’ve posted here, you want use to see you as something special. So, when I saw this scripture it reminded me of what you come across as in your postings.

Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.

KJ21
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool,’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Dcopymope]

Christ is not coming back until you manifest Him, though, and imo at least a drone-bombing, automatic-rifle-carrying version is going to be taken away, and given to a nation that better manifests the fruit of Christ.

Because like it or not, the religious Christians are the ones currently in control of the world. All those American soldiers currently guarding stolen poppy fields in Afghanistan identify as "Christian." You might reflect upon how it is that you, the most pampered person on the planet, can hardly wait for Jesus to come and rescue you, whose religion has control of the planet, as you simultaneously deem it all "going down the toilet."

Your tunnel vision on how the world really works is truly cringe worthy. As far as anybody with eyes to see and ears to hear are concerned, if there is any "religion" that controls the planet, it is Freemasonry, witchcraft under another name. Your world leaders and the vast network of NGO private groups they belong to who have a massive influence on governments don't identity themselves as "christian" pal, and many have identified these snakes for who they really are. Do you believe yourself to be a watchman? I hope not, because I'm not impressed.

 

[bbyrd009]

Your world leaders and the vast network of NGO private groups they belong to who have a massive influence on governments don't identity themselves as "christian" pal

they do to the public though, i never meant to imply that they were actual believers; but that most people who identify as "Christian" accept that Trump and "Developed world" leaders are "Christian," etc. "Christians" are perceived as holding the reins of power right now, regardless of the fact that they all sleep with The Prince.

 

[OzSpen]

"...Dialectical reasoning is actually opposed to formal logic in many ways.

Western Logic Versus Eastern Dialecticism
Aristotle placed at the foundations of logical thought the following three propositions.
1. Identity: A = A. Whatever is, is. A is itself and not some other thing.
2. Noncontradiction: A and not A can't both be the case. Nothing can both be and not be. A proposition and its opposite can't both be true.
3. Excluded middle: Everything must either be or not be. A or not A can be true but not something in between.

Modern Westerners accept these propositions (but Easterners do not)...
...three principles underlie Eastern dialecticism. Notice I didn't say "propositions..." the term "proposition" has much too formal a ring for what is a generalized stance toward the world rather than a set of ironclad rules.

1. Principle of change:
Reality is a process of change.
What is currently true will shortly be false.
2. Principle of contradiction:
Contradiction is the dynamic underlying change.
Because change is constant, contradiction is constant.
3. Principle of relationships (or holism):
The whole is more than the sum of its parts.
Parts are meaningful only in relation to the whole...

These principles are intimately linked...
The principles also imply another important tenet of Eastern thought, which is the insistence on finding the "middle way" between extreme propositions...
...and Talmudic scholars developed it over the next two millennia and more.

"Mindware" Richard E. Nisbett, pp. 224-5

Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

That's a red herring.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's a red herring.

so you say, but you cannot name an uncontested absolute statement of truth from Scripture, either.

so, being as how the rise of logical thought can be traced back to the Greeks at about the time of Christ, and Hebrew writers are acknowledged to have thought dialectically, imo the contrast is worth considering.

A red herring by definition is a false trail that produces no fruit, yes?
And you cannot logically put yourself in the place of, say, Cain, or Esau, right now, can you?

Because you are saved, so none of those passages even concern you, right?
They are parables put into the Bible for lost people, to you right now, isn't that correct?

So i suggest that a dialectic perspective will allow you to access the whole Bible, if you will let it; even if the connection is not immediately clear.

 

[Dcopymope]

they do to the public though, i never meant to imply that they were actual believers; but that most people who identify as "Christian" accept that Trump and "Developed world" leaders are "Christian," etc. "Christians" are perceived as holding the reins of power right now, regardless of the fact that they all sleep with The Prince.

I'm sure Apollyon will have the world believing that all the worlds problems stem from the Judeo/Christian religions, anything but the god of this world, Satan and his cronies in and out of government. It will make it a whole lot easier for the world to start beheading the saints.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, that is another subject change, and it is after all the Judeo-Christians who control the world "economy," etc, so if the shoe fits