Data On The Trinity

[ChristisGod]

Here's a bit more for your enjoyment...

The Bible says the Son will be subject to the Father even in the future “When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him [God] who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:28). The teaching that the two of them are “co-equal” must be wrong if Jesus is subject to the Father even in the eternal future. John 10:36 says “do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said, I am the Son of God?” The fact that Jesus was consecrated, or as it's translated in other versions as “sanctified” by God shows he's not God because God does not need to be sanctified. Philippians 2:6 says that Christ “did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.” The point of the verse is that Jesus Christ was highly exalted by God because he was humble and did not seek equality with God. Jesus would never have needed to seek equality with God in the first place because it would have been inherent in him if he was God.

We read in John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing.” Jesus repeated that in several different ways. “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge… because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me” (John 5:30). “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me” (John 7:16). “I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me” (John 8:28). “For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak” (John 12:49). Jesus would not have needed to be directed by his Father if he was God, and co-equal and co-eternal with the Father.

The Old Testament referred to the Messiah as the servant of God, and we see this in Isaiah 52-53, which speaks of the suffering and death of the Messiah when referring to the Messiah as God’s “servant.” They called King David God’s “servant” when the disciples prayed to God in Acts 4:25 and later in that same prayer they called Jesus “your holy servant” (Acts 4:30) CSB; ESV; NAB; NASB; NET; NIV; NJB). They equated the Messiah as a servant of God just like David was rather than referring to Jesus as if he was God himself. There are many verses indicating that the power and authority Jesus had was given to him by the Father. Jesus Christ would have always had those things that the Scripture says he was “given” if he was the eternal God. Christ was:

• Given “all authority” Matthew 28:18).
• Given “a name above every name” (Philippians 2:9).
• Given work to finish by the Father (John 5:36).
• Given those who believed in him by the Father (John 6:39, 10:29).
• Given glory (John 17:22, 24).
• Given his “cup” [his torture and death] by the Father (John 18:11).
• “Seated” at God’s own right hand (Ephesians 1:20-21).
• “Appointed” over the Church (Ephesians 1:22).

Do you know what a strawman is ?

How about some factual data .

Are you and your wife equal in your humanity ?

Are you more human than she is ?

Roles have nothing to do with nature .

hope this helps !!!

 

[Pierac]

Do you know what a strawman is ?

How about some factual data .

Are you and your wife equal in your humanity ?

Are you more human than she is ?

Roles have nothing to do with nature .

hope this helps !!!

Yea... Christophany...

How about some factual data..

Not a single person has any idea what your talking about?

How does your post even begin to address the topic of this thread???

Are you a biblical Karen?? some... He...man woman warrior for God???

A woman like you can do much better...

Paul

 

[ChristisGod]

Yea... Christophany...

How about some factual data..

Not a single person has any idea what your talking about?

How does your post even begin to address the topic of this thread???

Are you a biblical Karen?? some... He...man woman warrior for God???

A woman like you can do much better...

Paul

rofl ad hominems eh ?

Im a 62 year old man read my profile . Can you see me the man in the picture with the giant salmon ?

Any more strawman?

I see I stumped you Christ is your stumbling block you have tripped and fallen over.

Now be on your way with your fake data like the fake news .

hope this helps !!!

 

[Pierac]

rofl ad hominems eh ?

Im a 62 year old man read my profile . Can you see me the man in the picture with the giant salmon ?

Any more strawman?

I see I stumped you Christ is your stumbling block you have tripped and fallen over.

Now be on your way with your fake data like the fake news .

hope this helps !!!

No your a 62 yr old woman... showing a picture of a man with a salmon...

Your a true strawman... and Trump hater...


See... I can be just like you...
Paul

 

[ChristisGod]

No your a 62 yr old woman... showing a picture of a man with a salmon...

Your a true strawman... and Trump hater...


See... I can be just like you...
Paul

Sure thing Paula.

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you know what a strawman is ?

How about some factual data .

Are you and your wife equal in your humanity ?

Are you more human than she is ?

Roles have nothing to do with nature .

hope this helps !!!

bump for @Pierac

can you answer the questions above or will you resort to personal attacks again ?

personal attacks are a sure sign of defeat and that you cannot defend your false premise/argument and give a cogent response.

Debating Basic Principles 101.

conclusion: The fact is you will not answer them because you know your entire argument collapse if you dare. In chess we call this " CHECK- MATE "

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Do you know what a strawman is ?

How about some factual data .

Funny! You are creating a Strawman and Peterlag did provide some factual data.

The Bible says the Son will be subject to the Father even in the future “When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him [God] who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:28). The teaching that the two of them are “co-equal” must be wrong if Jesus is subject to the Father even in the eternal future.

 

[ChristisGod]

Funny! You are creating a Strawman and Peterlag did provide some factual data.

Maybe you would like to take a wild stab at answering these questions.

Are you and your wife equal in your humanity ?

Are you more human than she is ?

Roles have nothing to do with nature .

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Maybe you would like to take a wild stab at answering these questions.

Are you and your wife equal in your humanity ?

Are you more human than she is ?

Roles have nothing to do with nature .

hope this helps !!!

Your questions are easy to answer but they are the wrong questions, actually irrelevant to the discussion. Jesus is not God. Jesus is not any part or kind of God.

1. The nature of God is Spirit. The nature of Jesus is man.
2. The nature of God is eternal. The nature of Jesus (before the resurrection) is mortal.
3. Father's create sons. Son's do not create Father's.
4. God knows more than Jesus.
5. God is greater than Jesus.
6. God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus did not raise God from the dead.
7. God sent Jesus. Jesus did not send God.
8. God told Jesus what to say and how to say it. Jesus did not tell God what to say or how to say it.
9. Jesus submitted to the will of God. God did not submit to the will of Jesus.
10. Scripture says over and over again that God is the Father. Not once does Scripture say anyone else is God, not the Son and not the Holy Spirit.
11. Jesus is the servant of God. God is not the servant of Jesus.
12. God gave Jesus the revelation. Jesus did not give God the revelation.

Being equal in a way is NOT how you determine things are equal. If they are unequal in ANY way, they are unequal. So, questions for you to take a stab at:

Is Jesus once called 'God The Son' in Scripture?

Is Jesus once called YHWH incarnate?

If Jesus were God, why did Jesus say he has a God, who is the only true God? The only true God is Jesus' God. This is what Jesus said and it is good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?

 

[ChristisGod]

Your questions are easy to answer but they are the wrong questions, actually irrelevant to the discussion. Jesus is not God. Jesus is not any part or kind of God.

1. The nature of God is Spirit. The nature of Jesus is man.
2. The nature of God is eternal. The nature of Jesus (before the resurrection) is mortal.
3. Father's create sons. Son's do not create Father's.
4. God knows more than Jesus.
5. God is greater than Jesus.
6. God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus did not raise God from the dead.
7. God sent Jesus. Jesus did not send God.
8. God told Jesus what to say and how to say it. Jesus did not tell God what to say or how to say it.
9. Jesus submitted to the will of God. God did not submit to the will of Jesus.
10. Scripture says over and over again that God is the Father. Not once does Scripture say anyone else is God, not the Son and not the Holy Spirit.
11. Jesus is the servant of God. God is not the servant of Jesus.
12. God gave Jesus the revelation. Jesus did not give God the revelation.

Being equal in a way is NOT how you determine things are equal. If they are unequal in ANY way, they are unequal. So, questions for you to take a stab at:

Is Jesus once called 'God The Son' in Scripture?

Is Jesus once called YHWH incarnate?

If Jesus were God, why did Jesus say he has a God, who is the only true God? The only true God is Jesus' God. This is what Jesus said and it is good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?

Wrong the nature is man is a human nature and the nature of God is a Divine nature .

And with those facts you can see you have no leg to stand on .

The rest of your post is just nothing but your presuppositions and conjecture and bias .

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Wrong the nature is man is a human nature and the nature of God is a Divine nature .

And with those facts you can see you have no leg to stand on .

LOL. The Bible explictly states Jesus is a man. For some reason, you deny he has a human - and only human nature.

 

[ChristisGod]

LOL. The Bible explictly states Jesus is a man. For some reason, you deny he has a human - and only human nature.

Who is Divine having both a divine and human nature .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Yes that is true, but don’t forget that the Jews were looking for an excuse to have Jesus put to death....(but he broke no laws) so blasphemy, which carried the death penalty was the only charge they could bring against him.....they lied about him.....but their scriptures did not. It was clearly stated that Yahweh was “one” not “three” (Deuteronomy 6:4)

We have to understand that it was only in the minds of imperfect men(jews) that judged Jesus to be guilty of Blasphemy, but as you said Jesus broke no laws, he wasn't guilty of Blasphemy either just because these Jews judged him guilty of Blasphemy.

 

[Wrangler]

Who is Divine having both a divine and human nature .

Funny thing about trinitarian debate tactics. They only answer questions. Try answering these questions.

So, questions for you to take a stab at:

Is Jesus once called 'God The Son' in Scripture?

Is Jesus once called YHWH incarnate?

If Jesus were God, why did Jesus say he has a God, who is the only true God? The only true God is Jesus' God. This is what Jesus said and it is good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?

And then I'll answer your irrelevant questions.

 

[Peterlag]

Your questions are easy to answer but they are the wrong questions, actually irrelevant to the discussion. Jesus is not God. Jesus is not any part or kind of God.

1. The nature of God is Spirit. The nature of Jesus is man.
2. The nature of God is eternal. The nature of Jesus (before the resurrection) is mortal.
3. Father's create sons. Son's do not create Father's.
4. God knows more than Jesus.
5. God is greater than Jesus.
6. God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus did not raise God from the dead.
7. God sent Jesus. Jesus did not send God.
8. God told Jesus what to say and how to say it. Jesus did not tell God what to say or how to say it.
9. Jesus submitted to the will of God. God did not submit to the will of Jesus.
10. Scripture says over and over again that God is the Father. Not once does Scripture say anyone else is God, not the Son and not the Holy Spirit.
11. Jesus is the servant of God. God is not the servant of Jesus.
12. God gave Jesus the revelation. Jesus did not give God the revelation.

Being equal in a way is NOT how you determine things are equal. If they are unequal in ANY way, they are unequal. So, questions for you to take a stab at:

Is Jesus once called 'God The Son' in Scripture?

Is Jesus once called YHWH incarnate?

If Jesus were God, why did Jesus say he has a God, who is the only true God? The only true God is Jesus' God. This is what Jesus said and it is good enough for me. Why is that not good enough for you?

This is good stuff. I never heard it put that way

 

[Wrangler]

This is good stuff. I never heard it put that way

And notice how @Christophany just ignored it completely besides mocking it?

 

[Peterlag]

And notice how @Christophany just ignored it completely besides mocking it?

I'm ignored on another site often and they respond with a lot of mocking that my post are too long. So I said can we talk about what I post and not mock me personally. The same stuff that I post here. They deleted the post called Data on the Trinity that had 4 thousand views because I asked that question. Just like that they got rid of it.

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm ignored on another site often and they respond with a lot of mocking that my post are too long. So I said can we talk about what I post and not mock me personally. The same stuff that I post here. They deleted the post called Data on the Trinity that had 4 thousand views because I asked that question. Just like that they got rid of it.

Which forum

 

[quietthinker]

Date On The Trinity.
Whose hand is this?
Are threesomes allowed?
Tell me about your mates?
Front bench seats were not made for two.
At least every corner of the compass is covered.

 

[Wrangler]

I'm ignored on another site often and they respond with a lot of mocking that my post are too long.

A mocking Spirit reminds me of a video of a pastor who late in life rejected the trinity. He said trinitarianism does not bring forth the fruit of the Spirit. That's a profound observation! Exchanges with Christophany are typical; trinitarians cannot admit ANY valid arguments or Scriptural evidence against the trinity.

Jesus never taught the trinity and said he has a God, who is the only true God. This is one of many proof texts against the trinity. Why is that not good enough for trinitarians? Because they violate the 1C & 2C. There are 4 pillars that undermine their inherently contradictory doctrine at every turn:

1. Definitions. Sons are created beings. God is eternal and cannot die. The absurdity of parsing synonyms, like a person with a Being. Converses are not equal. 'Son of God' is not equal to 'God The Son.' Jesus is not called the Son of the Father.
2. Logic. 3 is not 1. Ambiguous verses, not coming close to saying 'Jesus is God' are falsely taken as superseding explicit verses, like 1 COR 8:6, 'For us, there is one God, the Father,' which they deny have any implications for the trinity. Hard to imagine a more anti-trinitarian set of words.
3. Language Usage. Many juxtapositions of God (to be read, "in his unitarian nature" for emphasis) and Jesus, e.g., 1 COR 11:3. If Jesus were God, there would not be 1 single juxtaposition in Scripture. Who so loved the world in John 3:16 that he gave his son? Not 'the Father.'
4. Scripture. The trinity is not in the Bible, not the word and not the concept. This is because Scripture is written by unitarian Jews who wrote unitarian text. Every Epistle explicitly identifies God alone as the Father and nowhere is God identified as anyone else. Thus, trinitarians have to ignore such explicit verses and read their doctrine into more ambiguous verses.

I've read the Gospel of John numerous times. It dawned on me the truth was the opposite of how trinitarians categorize it, juxtaposing it compared to the 3 Synoptic Gospels. The Gospel of John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the entire Bible. Only here is Jesus recorded as admitting he has a God, who is the only true God, who sent him and told him what to say and how to say it, etc. Absurd to suppose God incarnate would say such things. This video brilliantly addresses the much relied on prologue.