ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Correct YHWH said let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness plus many other such verses . Since man was not made in the likeness of angels that excludes angels in the US/OUR equation .
Data On The Trinity
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
The pronouns in the Bible that refer to “God” are singular and there are lots of them. “The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament contain well over twenty thousand pronouns and verbs describing the One God” (Anthony Buzzard and Charles Hunting, The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity’s Self-inflicted Wound, International Scholars Publications, New York, 1998, p. 17). Singular pronouns include “I” “my” and “he.” We would expect it to say “For God so loved the world that they gave the Father’s only begotten Son….” if “God” were composed of three co-equal beings who each had their own mind and together agreed to send Christ. The fact that the pronouns in the Bible refer to “God” as a singular being is also evidence that there is no Trinity.
The Jew I was referring to were the great Prophets who spoke for God all through out the Old Testament. They never taught a Trinity or even mentioned it.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
You say Apostles? Okay let's talk about them...
The apostles also taught Jesus was a man and we see this when the Apostle Peter spoke in his sermon to the crowds gathered on the Day of Pentecost making a very clear declaration that Jesus was a man approved of God: “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you…” (Acts 2:22). Here Peter clearly taught that Jesus was a man and that God did miracles “by him.” Paul also taught Jesus was a man and we can see that when he was in Athens teaching a crowd of unsaved Gentiles about Jesus Christ and said that God would judge the world “by the man whom He has appointed” (Acts 17:31). Paul never said or implied that Jesus was anything but a “man.”
There are a number of other New Testament verses that state Jesus was a man and we can see them in places like Romans that says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).
1 Timothy 2:5 says that it's the man Jesus, who was the mediator between God and men. “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” This verse calls Jesus Christ a “man” even after his resurrection. Trinitarian doctrine tries to explain the verses that say Jesus was a man by saying that he was a man, but he was also 100% God at the same time. But there are problems with that such as there is no single verse that says Jesus was both God and man and that's why the God-man doctrine is built from many verses.
I met Charles Hunting on many occasions; I co-pastored a Church with Anthony Buzzard until I retired in 2016 and moved back to my home state. I’ve known Anthony since 1997 and have travelled extensively (in the US and Africa) with him.
Anthony is fluent in several languages - including Hebrew and Greek - and was employed to teach them.
Did you know Charles? Do you know Anthony?
Did you believe what you believe now before you read their book, or did you come to believe it after reading it?
I came to the belief on my own before meeting them, and before reading their book. There were still, in those days, some things which I hadn’t settled on.
Singular pronouns are a powerful witness to the singularity of the one true God.
P.S.
A link to the Wikipedia entry for Anthony. You’ll find his language credentials mentioned there.
Sir Anthony Buzzard, 3rd Baronet - Wikipedia
Last edited:
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is correct...but that is also the point. What was only a principle teaching regarding the law, was clarified by Christ to have an ultimately broader meaning. Which is why I explained that those past writings were just coming into the light of Christ and were otherwise rooted in darkness and not to be taken yet as gospel...even more so since God has poured out His spirit upon all flesh beginning at Pentacost:
Deuteronomy 17:6
Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
Matthew 18:16
But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
PS, What is missing in only referring to those earlier writings...is that many things only come in the fulness of time. There are many examples in scripture, but it is Christ who is the best example, in that He himself did not come in the beginning, but only when the times were fulfilled. The same is true of the Spirit, and each of the Three witnesses from which every word is established--not just the old, nor even the new, but "all truth."Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
Matthew 18:16
But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
Last edited:
There are no multi-billion genuine believers, spirit-filled, on this earth today IMO. This is what the world religious Christian people believe in and are walking down the 'wide path.'
I for one believe there are only a few tens of millions who can claim being genuinely Spirit of God filled today.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Friend, the truth is the EXACT opposite as God is referred to about 5,000 times using singular pronouns. Any reference to plurality would have to measure up against that mountain of evidence.
smiling wide, broad
That's true! Let me do a small experiment, if you don't mind.
It's a big red truck that carries men who hold hoses of water pointed at fires. Now, I've not said "firetruck", but we know what I'm talking about because of what I've said.
The Bible does not say "Triune God", "Trinity", anything like those words. But it does tell us that the Father is God, and that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God, and that there is One God.
I don't think it's as important whether we say the word trinity, however, I think if we believe the sayings of the Bible, we'll reach that conclusion. Do we have to believe "trinity" to be saved?
What I know is that I'm trusting in Jesus, His death and resurrection that He shares with me, that I can be saved through faith in Him, by being baptized into Him. Do we have to have the same words for everything? I don't think so. But I believe our lives are greatly enriched by understanding these things.
So when we come to the passage where it says, the Holy Spirit said to separate to Him Paul and Barnabas, we can just read it, knowing the Holy Spirit is a Person. And when we come to the place that says, You've lied to the Holy Spirit, not to man but to God, again, we can just read it, and believe it, knowing that the Holy Spirit is God.
And same with those passages about Jesus, and about the Father.
Much love!
There are plenty of verses which say or imply exactly that. But since you wish to be willfully ignorant, there is no help for you.
There’s only one Yahweh, but there’s no shortage of trinitarians who deny that. They frequently say there are two Yahwehs and, when asked, will say that there are three Yahwehs.
I find their assertions (which I disagree with) nevertheless helpful in distinguishing the deity they believe in from the deity whom the Messiah believes in.
I once did but I no longer believe in the deity of the trinitarians. I believe in the Messiah’s deity, his God and Father.
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
More like some believe the fullness of God cannot be in three places at the same time yet believe billions have the Spirit isn't logical.
They most certainly did, from Moses to Malachi. But as Jesus said, representing Himself in His parable in Luke 16 in the person of Abraham, "If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets..." (the entire Old Testament), "...neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead."
I'll pose the same question to you, Peterlag, as I've posed previously in another current thread: What do you think it means that Jesus is both the Son of God, with which all agree, and the Son of Man, as He referred to Himself, drawing directly from what Daniel said in his prophecy?
Grace and peace to you and all in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Friend, the truth is the EXACT opposite as God is referred to about 5,000 times using singular pronouns. Any reference to plurality would have to measure up against that mountain of evidence.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The trinity is not in the Bible. No one taught the trinity in Scripture - not Moses, not Malachi, not Jesus.
Sad that you resort to such ludicrous claims since everyone knows the Jews are monotheists, who reject the trinity to this day AND Jesus was a monotheist Jew.
Ohhh... yes they did, especially Moses in Genesis 1 and Jesus in John 14. But they all did.
Yes, Jews are monotheists, which is good ~ and so are believers in the triune Jehovah, despite claims to the contrary by various folks. With ethnic Jews, though ~ and I say ethnic Jews, because ethnic Jews are not necessarily true Jews of the Israel of God ~ it's not that they don't believe the Godhead is multiple in Persons ~ they do, again, despite claims to the contrary by various folks ~ they don't believe Jesus was the Christ. Most of them, anyway, because some do, praise God.
Grace and peace to you.
“Moses the trinitarian” - the assertion used to make me cringe, even back in the day when I was a trinitarian, and did so up until December of 2020. Since then, I’ve come to find it somewhat humorous, thanks to a trinitarian friend of mine (@DancesWithGnostics) who used to post on these forums.
He tells a marvelous story about how “Isaiah the unitarian” became “Isaiah the trinitarian” after he died, went to heaven and found out there about the doctrine of the Trinity.
We were able to agree that Isaiah was a unitarian and that he died.
We weren’t able agree that he went to heaven when he died.
We were able to agree though that he would have been a fool not to convert IF he went to heaven when he died and IF he learned there that God is the Trinity.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Imagine what it would be like to impose trinitarian doctrine onto monotheist text. That’s the basis of your claim.
- Status
Similar threads
