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death penalty for or against?

Discussion in 'Current Events & Politics Forum' started by seekingGod, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    Ryan I thought about you on my way home from work this afternoon. Where you use Christ telling the adultress to "go and sin no more," as an example of forgiveness it is very different than murder. Adultery is a sin that two people willingly commit. In other words both parties were guilty. Why were those men so angry at the woman when they were saying nothing to the man. Who knows what Christ wrote in the sand but someone I study with said it was probably...."and just where were you last week?" Murder and rape can't be compared to adultery where two people willingly engage in a sin. That is why it cannot be forgiven in this flesh life. They must go before God and there He will decide. He instructed us that we were to do our part in placing them before Him for that decision........Whirlwind
    Both adultery and Murder were punished by death in ot law, so in reality I believe that Jesus was still forgiving a ( back then) sin which consituted the death penalty. I agree with what you say, but imagine if the passage read like this.2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman convicted of murder ; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman has commited murder, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. and when they all Left Jesus took the stones they left behind and stoned her to do death himself.Is that the Jesus you see in the bible. Even if it were a murderer do you believe that Jesus would of stoned the women to death????that is not the Jesus I see.your brother in christRyan Fitz
     
  2. jamesrage

    jamesrage New Member

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    He was not pro murder either Bernie EODwhich is all capitol punishment is. Murder.
    Since capital punishment is legal it is not murder to execute a criminal that has been sentenced to death.Killing is the simple taking of another,murder is the illegal taking of another life(the abortionist love reminding those against abortion of this fact any time anyone who is against abortion calls abortion government sanctioned murder).
    Its us setting ourselfs as the judge.
    There is a great thread on the topic of judging.http://www.christianityboard.com/judge-not...706.html?t=2706
    it is us who is throwing the first stone, instead of God the only one sinless. AND REMEMBER NOT EVEN HE THREW IT!!!!!
    As far as I know it takes two to tango,where was the individual who committed adultery with her and how did they know she commit adultery?Jesus knew something about those men and that is why he said let he who is without sin cast the first stone,I do not think he would have said that for some picking up twigs on the sabbath.
    clearly all capitol punishment is is us putting ourselves in the place of God.
    No it's not.
    and murdering whoever we deem fit to murder.
    Murder is the illegal taking of another human life,it is not illegal to execute those who have been sentenced to death.
    stop making such a horrible thing seem so glamorous.
    The death penalty is another form of punishment just like fines,prison and probation.Those punishments are based on the severity of the crime,the more heinous the crime the more severe the punishment.No one is glamorizing the death penalty.Most people who are for the death penalty see it as a deterrent or ultimate punishment for committing the most heinous of crimes or both.
     
  3. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    because it is not Gods choice in this systen, its our own.
    No, God's system is the two witnesses as I have demonstrated. This two witness system sticks with us to the very prophecy that will clearly be one of the last to be fulfilled. Of course, this was ignored.Why don't you show me where heaven and earth passed away as well, while you're at it?
     
  4. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    Both adultery and Murder were punished by death in ot law, so in reality I believe that Jesus was still forgiving a ( back then) sin which consituted the death penalty. I agree with what you say, but imagine if the passage read like this.2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman convicted of murder ; and when they had set her in the midst, 4They say unto him, Master, this woman has commited murder, in the very act. 5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. and when they all Left Jesus took the stones they left behind and stoned her to do death himself.Is that the Jesus you see in the bible. Even if it were a murderer do you believe that Jesus would of stoned the women to death????that is not the Jesus I see.your brother in christRyan Fitz
    Ryan I see a Jesus that wouldn't allow someone that harmed an innocent to do it again. He is a God of love but He is not a powerpuff. He would stop the bloodthirsty then and there!Proverbs 29:10 The bloodthirsty hate the upright; But the just seek his soul.How do the just seek the soul of the bloodthirsty? He is tried and if found guilty he is executed............Whirlwind
     
  5. BernieEOD

    BernieEOD New Member

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    Ryan I see a Jesus that wouldn't allow someone that harmed an innocent to do it again. He is a God of love but He is not a powerpuff. He would stop the bloodthirsty then and there!Proverbs 29:10 The bloodthirsty hate the upright; But the just seek his soul.How do the just seek the soul of the bloodthirsty? He is tried and if found guilty he is executed............Whirlwind
    Are we forgetting who Christ is? For starters, the key word here being "Is". All false teaching begins with "Jesus was". Jesus is God himself in human form. The same God who wiped out the entire Earth sparing only Noah and his family, the Same God who wiped out Soddom and Gomorra. The same God who commanded Joshua to wipe out the existing civilizations occupying the promised land. The same God who will return to strike down the nations of the Earth and rule with a rod of iron. By his perfect standard, we all deserve the same fate as Sodom and Gomorra. The only reason we are not destined for such fate is John 3:16. When God took on human form and became Christ, it was his own wrath which he endured, the wrath destined for all of us.Christ spoke more of Hell and condemnation than he did of Heaven and forgivness. His entire ministry is that nobody can escape Hell on thier own works. Liberal theologans love to use this case of the adulteress but this passage clearly states that the motive of this lynch mob was not justice but to politicaly trap him. The passage begins with "In order so that they might decieve him." Christ did not prevent a viable court from conducting an execution. He stopped a lynch mob whose motive was to embarass him in a catch 22. Had he responded with "Yes, fulfill the Law" he would have been condemmed as being unmercifull. Had he responded "No, be mercifull!" He would have been condemmed as being unjust. All too often, liberal theolgians will cut it off at "Niether do I condem you." But when he told her "Go! And from this day forward, sin no more!" That was a stern warning. The implication here is "Next time, I won't be there to stop it".
     
  6. seekingGod

    seekingGod New Member

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    thanks for all the responses, I'm going to read the post.[/QUOTEI am so sorry to hear about that. I am praying for you would you mind giving me your first name???I ask you have you forgiven the serial killer, Not forgive his actions, his actions should never be forgiven, but him as a person. I ask you too. Its what Christ asks you to do. 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.I'm sorry for your lossand you are in my prayersRyan Fitz[/QUOTE]I appriciate that, the seriual killer asked all of the victims friends and family for forgiveness, in which I have. I understand this is what God wants, I know there is more to it than just forgiveness.thanks again
     
  7. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    While many Christians support capital punishment, I have some serious questions . . .If we use the Old Testament as support for capital punishment--shouldn't we support execution for all offenses it lists as capital?The Bible isn't a belief buffet from which we can pick and choose what we want to believe or apply.Under the Old Testament law, murder (Numbers 35:16) and rape (Deuteronomy 22:25) were in fact grounds for execution. But if we are to consistently apply Old Testament Law--and not simply pick and choose--we would need to apply capital punishment for all offenses it lists as capital.adultery (Leviticus 20:10)homosexual behavior (Leviticus 20:13)kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)loving anything more than God (Leviticus 20:2)occult practices (Exodus 22:18)pre-marital sex (Leviticus 21:9)not observing the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36) and striking or slandering a parent (Exodus 21:15, 17)Who would be left to pull the switch?!Under New Testament grace, didn't Christ take our "capital punishment" required under the Law?When we were utterly helpless with no way of escape, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners who had no use for him. But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. And since by his blood he did all this for us as sinners, how much more will he do for us now that he has declared us not guilty? Now he will save us from all of God's wrath to come (Romans 5:6, 8-9).Well then, are God laws and God's promises against each other? Of course not! If we could be saved by the laws, then God would not have had to give us a different way to get out of the grip of sin--for the Scriptures insist we are all its prisoners. The only way out is through faith in Jesus Christ; the way of escape is open to all who believe in him (Galatians 3:21-22).If the death penalty is a universal, timeless punishment commanded by God for those Old Testament sins viewed capital offenses (see above), shouldn't the following offenders have been executed?Cain, the first murderer, was actually protected by God, (Genesis 4:8-15)Moses who murdered an Egyptian (Exodus 2:11-15)King David who committed adultery, then had the woman's husband killed (2 Samuel 11)The woman at the well (John 4:1-42) who was guilty of adultery.The woman caught in the act of adultery (John 8:1-11)The Christians in Corinth (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV) who were formerly "sexually immoral," "idolators," "adulterers," "male prostitutes," and "homosexual offenders"--all of which were capital offences in the Old TestamentAnd don't forget, to include everyone of us in that list! "Yes, all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious ideal." " For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 3:23, 6:23 TLB).I've searched the New Testament for justification for humanly-imposed capital punishment. God's punishment of unbelievers at Judgment Day is certainly capital! (Revelation 20:11-15)) What I do find, however, are many passages that warn against judging others, not showing mercy, and mistreating prisoners (Matthew 5:7, 44; 7:2; 25:39-40, 44-45).Admittedly, it is a controversial issue. (And I could be wrong!) But on those issues where there is such disagreement, shouldn't we error on the side of life rather than death?your brother in christRyan Fitz
     
  8. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    [quote name='seekingGod;30281]thanks for all the responses' date=' I'm going to read the post.[/QUOTEI am so sorry to hear about that. I am praying for you would you mind giving me your first name???I ask you have you forgiven the serial killer, Not forgive his actions, his actions should never be forgiven, but him as a person. I ask you too. Its what Christ asks you to do. 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h'] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.I'm sorry for your lossand you are in my prayersRyan Fitz[/QUOTE]I appriciate that, the seriual killer asked all of the victims friends and family for forgiveness, in which I have. I understand this is what God wants, I know there is more to it than just forgiveness.thanks again[/QUOTE]God bless you many people could not do that.
     
  9. seekingGod

    seekingGod New Member

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    It took a very long time to understand and to forgive the serial killer for killing my friend, the bigger question is, is did the serial killer ask God for forgiveness, or is it the fact they know when they will be executed they turn to God.
     
  10. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    It took a very long time to understand and to forgive the serial killer for killing my friend, the bigger question is, is did the serial killer ask God for forgiveness, or is it the fact they know when they will be executed they turn to God.
    seeking God I would and could not take that chance.
     
  11. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    While many Christians support capital punishment, I have some serious questions . . .If we use the Old Testament as support for capital punishment--shouldn't we support execution for all offenses it lists as capital?The Bible isn't a belief buffet from which we can pick and choose what we want to believe or apply.Who would be left to pull the switch?!
    That is very true....sad, but true.
    Under New Testament grace, didn't Christ take our "capital punishment" required under the Law?Cain, the first murderer, was actually protected by God, (Genesis 4:8-15)
    Yes he was but you must ask why? His seed, called Kenites, have worked their evil in this world from the beginning and will until the 2nd Advent of Christ. They are the negative part of God's plan. 1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the begining. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.11.For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.12.Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.15.Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.John again speaks about who that murderer is from.John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.There is evil in the world Ryan and they are not of God. I'm not speaking about those that commit crimes of passion, etc. but cold blooded, premeditated murder against innocents......they ARE NOT OF GOD. For instance consider the man that killed the young woman last week while she was hiking with her Lab....he decapitated her. Another man that (10 miles from my home) two days ago, threw his four children, aged 4 months, 1, 2 and 3, off of the Dauphin Island Bridge, 100 feet high....why, because he was mad at his wife. Their bodies haven't yet been located. EVIL, EVIL, EVIL and there is no excuse. They are of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they will do. We are to send those evil people to God and He will decide their fate. I've searched this morning for a certain scripture but haven't yet found it. It tells us that we should send murderers and rapists to God, that they cannot receive salvation in the flesh....it doesn't say they cannot be forgiven but it cannot be in this flesh life. It also states that we should not feel sorry for them. It is in the New Testament and I thought it was in one of the John's....I'll keep searching unless someone else knows and can supply it for us.
    Moses who murdered an Egyptian (Exodus 2:11-15)
    Moses didn't "murder" anyone. He killed him because of what he was doing. It was a crime of passion, anger. I'm not saying it couldn't have been handled another way but it wasn't a premeditated, laying-in-wait, murder.
    King David who committed adultery, then had the woman's husband killed (2 Samuel 11)
    Not a proud moment for David. Even David realized he should be executed for what he did. God severely punished him and it was God Himself that decided David's fate. As a mother, I can attest to the fact that the fate God placed on David was worse than being executed himself. 11 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." And Nathan said unto David, "The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14.Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."
    I've searched the New Testament for justification for humanly-imposed capital punishment. God's punishment of unbelievers at Judgment Day is certainly capital! (Revelation 20:11-15)) What I do find, however, are many passages that warn against judging others, not showing mercy, and mistreating prisoners (Matthew 5:7, 44; 7:2; 25:39-40, 44-45).
    Everyone can and does sin and everyone should be shown mercy but there is a line that can be crossed. It just doesnt make sense that we should show loving kindness to someone that is so evil they brutally murder or rape others. That cannot be what Christ meant. To me they can be given a chance to repent and then sent on to see what our Father thinks about it. Those chose that for themselves. They knew what they were doing and they willing did it....they premeditated their crime and when they do that they know the punishment laid out for that crime.....they are evil! They do not deserve your compassion and they do not have mine.
    Admittedly, it is a controversial issue. (And I could be wrong!) But on those issues where there is such disagreement, shouldn't we error on the side of life rather than death?
    Yes, but would that be the side of the life of the offender or the life/lives of those he murdered, or will murder?......Whirlwind
     
  12. BernieEOD

    BernieEOD New Member

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    That is very true....sad, but true.Yes he was but you must ask why? His seed, called Kenites, have worked their evil in this world from the beginning and will until the 2nd Advent of Christ. They are the negative part of God's plan. 1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the begining. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.11.For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.12.Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.15.Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.John again speaks about who that murderer is from.John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.There is evil in the world Ryan and they are not of God. I'm not speaking about those that commit crimes of passion, etc. but cold blooded, premeditated murder against innocents......they ARE NOT OF GOD. For instance consider the man that killed the young woman last week while she was hiking with her Lab....he decapitated her. Another man that (10 miles from my home) two days ago, threw his four children, aged 4 months, 1, 2 and 3, off of the Dauphin Island Bridge, 100 feet high....why, because he was mad at his wife. Their bodies haven't yet been located. EVIL, EVIL, EVIL and there is no excuse. They are of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they will do. We are to send those evil people to God and He will decide their fate. I've searched this morning for a certain scripture but haven't yet found it. It tells us that we should send murderers and rapists to God, that they cannot receive salvation in the flesh....it doesn't say they cannot be forgiven but it cannot be in this flesh life. It also states that we should not feel sorry for them. It is in the New Testament and I thought it was in one of the John's....I'll keep searching unless someone else knows and can supply it for us.Moses didn't "murder" anyone. He killed him because of what he was doing. It was a crime of passion, anger. I'm not saying it couldn't have been handled another way but it wasn't a premeditated, laying-in-wait, murder.Not a proud moment for David. Even David realized he should be executed for what he did. God severely punished him and it was God Himself that decided David's fate. As a mother, I can attest to the fact that the fate God placed on David was worse than being executed himself. 11 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." And Nathan said unto David, "The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14.Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."Everyone can and does sin and everyone should be shown mercy but there is a line that can be crossed. It just doesnt make sense that we should show loving kindness to someone that is so evil they brutally murder or rape others. That cannot be what Christ meant. To me they can be given a chance to repent and then sent on to see what our Father thinks about it. Those chose that for themselves. They knew what they were doing and they willing did it....they premeditated their crime and when they do that they know the punishment laid out for that crime.....they are evil! They do not deserve your compassion and they do not have mine.Yes, but would that be the side of the life of the offender or the life/lives of those he murdered, or will murder?......Whirlwind
    Romans 13 is where we are told that governments have the power of the sword. It also describes governments as avanging angels placed upon thie earth in order to bring wrath upon evildoers. Paul warns that those who are onclines towards evil should be very afraid because government have the power to deal with them. Being for capital punishment, or more accurately, not challenging the governments power of the sword does not mean being part of a mob angrily demanding an eye for an eye. (By the way, an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth was actually given not as an actual price but as a limitation. The Pagan nations of the time punished according to social status and not the severity of the crime so the true context is "No more than an eye for an eye")It is written that the Lord takes no pleasure in the demise of the wicked. If an execution is to take place, hate and anger has no place here. The old saying "Step up to the gallows and may God have mercy on your soul" Is a good standard of the attitude to prevail in an execution.
     
  13. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    seeking God I would and could not take that chance.
    This morning I wrote the following:"We are to send those evil people to God and He will decide their fate. I've searched this morning for a certain scripture but haven't yet found it. It tells us that we should send murderers and rapists to God, that they cannot receive salvation in the flesh....it doesn't say they cannot be forgiven but it cannot be in this flesh life. It also states that we should not feel sorry for them. It is in the New Testament and I thought it was in one of the John's....I'll keep searching unless someone else knows and can supply it for us."The scripture I was looking for is as follows but it does NOT tell us "that we should send murderers and rapists to God," as I thought it would but does tell us that "they cannot be forgiven in this flesh life." (I'm sorry, I didn't mean to misrepresent the scriptures). I still believe that means they are to be executed, according to His instructions but I can't find it in the New Testament.1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.Hate is very, very destructive, isn't it?The scripture about not feeling sorry for the criminal is:Deuteronomy 19:11 But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities:12.Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood that he may die.13.Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.'....Whirlwind
     
  14. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    And thats exactly what God did to Paul( back then known as paul) right. He was traveling around isreal killing christians, causing many martyrs for Gods name.and God decided to kill him, for he had no pity or love for the murderer.No!!! he forgave Paul, saved what you called the bloodthirsty fiend and made him a worker for christ. "Now Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, that, if he should find any men or women who belonged to the Way, 2 he might bring them back to Jerusalem in chains. On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do." (acts 9)God is love but he aint no powerpuff either, He loves the murderer(enemies), feels compassion for the murderer(enemies), and he changes them into a new creation.for God hath no pity for the murderer, instead he takes action and if we reveal God to the murderers and rapist God will makes them his.this can be done behind bars,Not in the criminals grave.and remember Jesus's requirements " let the one who has not sinned throw the first stone," only the one who is sinless can righteosly decide to take a life for a crime. and the only one sinless is God. your brother in christRyan Fitz
     
  15. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    Hey Letsgofishing,Its so very interesting that God sent fire against Saul and changed him in the twinkling of an eye. I wonder if he will do this with others before he returns. His fire is very purifying. It sure is a lot faster than just spreading the gospel. Just a thought!
     
  16. BernieEOD

    BernieEOD New Member

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    Hey Letsgofishing,Its so very interesting that God sent fire against Saul and changed him in the twinkling of an eye. I wonder if he will do this with others before he returns. His fire is very purifying. It sure is a lot faster than just spreading the gospel. Just a thought!
    You misjudge who Saul was. He was not a murderer. Had the Gospel been a false doctrine, then he would have been right to do what he was doing. All Christ had to do was to prove that HE is the Messiah and that his ministry was from God and Saul became Paul, and you know the rest of the story. You cannot equate Pauls story with that of Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Tookie Williams, or any other criminal.
     
  17. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    You misjudge who Saul was. He was not a murderer. Had the Gospel been a false doctrine, then he would have been right to do what he was doing. All Christ had to do was to prove that HE is the Messiah and that his ministry was from God and Saul became Paul, and you know the rest of the story. You cannot equate Pauls story with that of Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Tookie Williams, or any other criminal.
    Bernie.....that is very, very true. That is the point. We aren't talking about someone being misguided, insane, brought to a point of passionate rage....we are talking about cold blooded murderers. They are those that knowingly, willingly do what they do and probably do it will a smile on their face.I have no pity or concern for them. They will have their opportunity during the millennium to learn about God but, as far as I'm concerned, their time in this flesh life should be ended....it is their choice, their very own decision, they control their own destiny and who are we to keep them from what they so desperately want?......Whirlwind
     
  18. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

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    Like to know what your views/thoughts are on the dp?SG
    Depends on the crime really. Does it warrant the death penalty? If it does then go for it.
     
  19. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (seekingGod;29787)
    Like to know what your views/thoughts are on the dp?SG
    From a purely political and judicial standpoint, yes the death penalty is a perfect idea. God has instituted the death penalty (spiritually) for the soul that sins. He also executed it physically in the OT before Christ. If you are going to govern rightly, there must be a point where your crime(s) can result in death.As for me, I look to Christ and see that He has died for all sin, and hope that all men can be justified by His mercy.
     
  20. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (Dunamite;29858)
    Against. Most definitely. It is first a salvation issue for me. A person needs every opportunity to come to repentance and experience salvation. Taking a life no matter how warranted is final. It ends life in this world and maybe eternally, if the person does not know Jesus. Many people come to repentance in prison and can still do some good in this world.My second problem is with the nature of man. Many people are wrongfully convicted due to the unreliability of witnesses and the sinful nature of people ready to send someone to death so that they can solve a case or get off themselves.My third reason is that the criminal justice system is biased in favor of the rich and well connected. It works against minorities, the poor and those who have no influence.My fourth reason is that if it is wrong to kill then it should be universal with no exceptions. If the state can justify killing it means that isn't really a rule. If it isn't a rule then it can't be enforced. If life is sacred (and it is), then it should be treated as such.My fifth reason is that it does not reduce crime. Countries with capital punishment have higher violent crime rates than countries without capital punishment. If capital punishment and high incarceration rates worked then the U.S.A. should be the safest country in the world and it is far from it. You are more likely to die a violent death in the U.S. than any western country.My final reason is compassion. We are told to forgive and be compassionate. Capital punishment teaches revenge and retribution. That is wrong for a Christian and damaging to people in general. Lack of forgiveness ruins lives.Blessings,Dunamite
    First, it's not wrong to kill... it is wrong to murder.Second, nobody asked if criminal justice was biased. Suppose we are speaking of a criminal justice that is not bias? Should, in the perfect system, there be a death penalty where justice is executed rightly and perfect? The answer is yes. Our Father is perfect, and I cannot argue with God who has made death a consequence of sin.Third, like the second reason, we aren't speaking of being wrongfully convicted. The question was simply if there should be a death penalty. I suppose if we assume that we mean it would be executed unjustly and bias... by all means no! If the question was "Should people who have not commited crimes be put to death?," the answer would be a resounding no. People who aren't worthy of death should not be put to death. The question though, is should there be a death penalty. In the pefect government, we would do best to model God's commands. The death penalty is necessary and good, and God has said so.Though you are right, compassion and salvation are high on *our list* because we wish to see men saved... if the question is a matter of whether or not a death penalty should be, at some point, in place as a punishement for sin (crime), the answer is yes.God will execute death, and judgment on the wicked. Who am I to tell Him no? If men, in their physical world, see fit in their wisdom that it is necessary and good the have death be a consequence of sin, good for them. They're right on track with how things will come to fruition on that great (and dreadful) day.You neglected to consider how many men and women actually come to repentence *because* of a death penalty. When a person's life is about to be taken, and he or she realizes the gravity of his or her sin... and the finality of death... the door to the heart is opened greatly, and Jesus is always knocking. If even the finality of death, ever-present and unavoidable is still not enough to bring a person to repentance, and seek God (and they will find Him if they do), then they are lost anyways... and justice (real justice on the day of judgment) is waiting for him or her all the same whether they be put to death on this earth or left alive.Death penalty = perfectly good, when executed perfectly rightly.
     
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