John 8:7 KJVR
(7) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
what has not been addressed by those who believe that the death penalty is for today is this:
who is qualified to judge and condemn?
according to the Master, it would be 'he that is without sin among you' - is there anyone here who would qualify?
Haven't we already gone through this point?! Just because someone is executed for their crimes against their fellowman, doesn't mean that they are eternally doomed! The executioner is merely carrying out the consequence that comes with such actions. But of course, none of like responsibility for our actions! When my parents die, are they going to be corrected by God because they smacked me? NO!!!! Because that was their duty! Same as the justice system. The justice system's duty is to punish wrongdoers. They don't condemn them to hell fire. God alone does that. All the justice system does is mete out the consequences of someone's actions!
To keep the land clean? Why not now? You can't pick and choose which commandments. That's not consistent.
So tell us Vet, which Covenant are you under? The New or the Law of Moses? Doesn't sound like you know. If you want to be under THE LAW then you MUST keep all of it.
Oh yeah?! I think I've already made that clear!! I am not picking and choosing. I have already made the point clear, that murder must be paid for. There are many crimes which must be paid for, some against their own bodies, some against others. I am not discussing about punishment for robbery, adultery, or such. For the upteenth time, if someone takes the priceless life of someone else in cold-blooded murder, there is only one punishment that really is fitting: the death sentence. As I have previously stated, I believe that it should be up to the victim's family. Whether they want justice, or they want to forgive.
I think you missed the point Vet was pulling out. The Law is NOT a terror for those who do good works but for the evil! The Law exists to punish those who disobey. In this case, the death sentence is the punishment for murder.
1 Timothy 1:5-7 KJVR
(5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
(6) From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
(7) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. (emphasis added)
you've missed Paul's point - this wasn't about the death penalty - it was about Charity - LOVE.
1 Timothy 1:12-14 KJVR
(12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
(13) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
(14) And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Acts 22:20 KJVR
(20) And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
this is Paul admitting that he was an accomplice to Stephen's death - an accomplice to murder - Paul's point in all of this is to not be disobedient to LOVE - this is not justification for the death penalty.
Romans 13:9-10 KJVR
(9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
(10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (emphasis added)
read a little farther - to the conclusion - before you take scriptures and claim they justify the death penalty.
Ouch. So you'd have a clear conscience if you let someone go to jail for life after murdering 80 people while all those torn and wounded families are calling for justice?! You call that charity?! Turn the coin over! We talk about showing mercy to the murderer and forget about the murdered!
Your verses about Paul don't highlight anything except the amazing power of Jesus to change someone's life!
As for ro 13:9-10, tell me, is it going to do any good if someone decides to walk around the neighbourhood with a chainsaw killing people and you just go and 'love' him? What 'love' is that!? Love requires punishment! My parents didn't discipline me because they hated me, but because they loved me! Once again, this can be flipped around. What about all those people who have been killed? their families? How loving is it if we let the brutal murderer enjoy the rest of his life in a cosy prison with good food and plenty of entertainment?!
People MUST be responsible for their actions.
Excellent point. Nobody here is qualified. Anyone who condemns an innocent person to die will have bloody hands on Judgment Day.
I think we have already covered such issues. The death penalty, in Scripture, was only to be carried out if there were two or more witnesses, and after a hearing. I think that if the evidence was foggy, the accused would not be executed. While we are on the point, what about the cities of refuge? You see, even those who accidentally killed someone, had to be responsible for their safety. If they didn't run to a city of refuge and they were killed by the avenger, who's fault was it? The person who got killed! We are responsible for our actions.
This is an excellent verse about the justice system and what it's purpose is:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.