Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
So are you now ready for who (by name) coordinated the assassination of JFK? And it weren't Oswald. He was told to meet in the depository so he could SELL a rifle.
Bobby Jo
Death penalty.
- Thread starter Josho
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
So are you now ready for who (by name) coordinated the assassination of JFK? And it weren't Oswald. He was told to meet in the depository so he could SELL a rifle.
Bobby Jo
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
I forgive, but I still expect those who break the law to be held accountable for what they chose to do. IMHO....if we have no laws to protect the innocent and punish criminals then we have havoc....look at the riots...people have lost everything...some have died....I can forgive them but I pray God will avenge the innocent.
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
I asked if our justice system can be trusted but u didn't answer.
So u wouldn't of been happy to have him locked away, u were only happy to have the killer killed...
So what did it accomplish? It satisfied your thirst for justice, your hunger for revenge based on your anger and resentment
Is that what Jesus wants u think... Does it love your enemy or forgive 77 times...
Im reminded of Pope John Paul 2
In 1981 our Holy Father was shot in an assassination attempt
He was hit with 4 bullets, suffered severe blood loss and almost died.
But the Pope didn't demand the death penalty, he didn't ask people to pray for his recovery.
Instead he asked people to pray for the man that shot him.
This is a true act of mercy that very few people can accomplish
What an unbelievable gesture
Y'all can aspire to be vengeful and punish evil with evil
I myself aspire to be as graceful and merciful as Pope John Paul 2
Anyway i really shouldn't be angry cos i already know the righteous indignation people have towards inmates which comes from an ignorance of the justice system and prison.
Having the people that killed people killed will always appeal to people i guess but it's definitely not the merciful will of Christ
Last edited:
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
1. Courtland Gross was the former President of Lockheed. His company stood to make profits building military aircraft if the Vietnam War progressed. In his declining years his brain leaked out his mouth, so the housekeeper, the wife, and he all paid the price. [1]
2.a. In 1957 Jupiter nuclear missiles were stationed in Turkey. [2]
2.b. (Or NOT 2.b.) Early in the Kennedy Administration, he asked about the military value of the missiles and Atomic Energy Commission’s (AEC) Joint Congressional Committee observed that the weapons were “unreliable, inaccurate, obsolete, and too easily sabotaged.”[3] But no orders were given regarding the disposition of the stationed missiles.
2.c. In Spring of 1962, Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, John A. McCone, speculated that the Soviet Union might deploy nuclear missiles in Cuba. He reasoned that a Eastern Europe satellite nation deployment could result in a potentially disastrous Moscow re-targeting. However, in Cuba, the 1,000 mile range pre-empted this prospect.[4]
2.d. In August of 1962, Kennedy requested that the Jupiter missiles be removed, but apparently never issued an order. [5]
2.e. After the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy learned to put his Directives in Writing.
3.a. In early 1960 the CIA proposed the overthrow of Castro to the Eisenhower Administration
3.b. In April of 1961 Kennedy approved "Operation Pluto" based upon the CIA's optimistic projection of success.
3.c. After the failed invasion, Kennedy learned not to trust the CIA's projections.
4.On October 2, 1963 Kennedy refused to believe the CIA's Vietnam projections, and gave the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Maxwell Taylor written guidance to start drawing down 1,000 troops to commence within two months, and the balance of the troops to be withdrawn within the following 12 months.[6]
5.a. Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963.
5.b. It took the CIA 7 weeks and 2 days to arrange for an open top motorcade.
6.a. William Colby was with the Office of Strategic Services during WWII, and converted to the CIA after the war.
6.b. During the Vietnam War William Colby served as chief of station in Saigon and was responsible for fielding the Program, Operation Phoenix, comprised of Army Green Beret, Navy SEALS, and South Vietnamese Rangers working in conjunction with informants, where they covertly, without trial, ‘neutralized’ a total of 20,000 civilians who were suspected of being members of the Communist underground -- some by arrest, many by death. [7]
Some critics and historians have estimated that the Phoenix Program killed upwards of 20,000 and imprisoned some 70,00 people. An analyst wrote in the January 1975 issue of Foreign Affairs: “Although the Phoenix program did undoubtedly kill or incarcerate many innocent civilians, it did also eliminate many members of the Communist infrastructure.”[8]
[1] Walter J. Boyne, "Beyond the Horizons: The Lockheed Story"
[2] Brugioni, Eyeball to Eyeball, Random House, NY, 1991, p. 467
[3] Elie Abel, The Missile Crisis, J.B. Lippincott Co., NY, 1966, p. 190 p. 18
[4] Elie Abel, The Missile Crisis, J.B. Lippincott Co., NY, 1966, p. 190
[5] Clarence Lam, Kennedy and the Other Missiles of 1962, https://roundtable.menloschool.org/issue20/4_Lam_MS_Roundtable20_Winter_2015.pdf
[6] Ian Brodie, “Kennedy Ordered Troops Out Of Vietnam,” The Times Newspapers Limited, - online, Dec. 23, 1997
[7] William Colby, Lost Victory, Contemporary Books, NY, 1989, p. 333
[8] Maynard Parker, “Vietnam: The War That Won’t End,” Foreign Affairs, NY, January 1975, p. 352
[2] Brugioni, Eyeball to Eyeball, Random House, NY, 1991, p. 467
[3] Elie Abel, The Missile Crisis, J.B. Lippincott Co., NY, 1966, p. 190 p. 18
[4] Elie Abel, The Missile Crisis, J.B. Lippincott Co., NY, 1966, p. 190
[5] Clarence Lam, Kennedy and the Other Missiles of 1962, https://roundtable.menloschool.org/issue20/4_Lam_MS_Roundtable20_Winter_2015.pdf
[6] Ian Brodie, “Kennedy Ordered Troops Out Of Vietnam,” The Times Newspapers Limited, - online, Dec. 23, 1997
[7] William Colby, Lost Victory, Contemporary Books, NY, 1989, p. 333
[8] Maynard Parker, “Vietnam: The War That Won’t End,” Foreign Affairs, NY, January 1975, p. 352
Now having been assigned to Saigon where assassination proficiency was required, -- who better than someone with demonstrated proficiency?
And as previously cited where Courtland Gross couldn't keep his thoughts from coming out of this mouth, so too, apparently this Former Director of the CIA. He wife was away when he called her from the house and said he was tired, was going to do the dishes, and then off to bed. The next day they found his body in a river where the police said that the canoe and body were in impossible locations.
-- The government can't have people spilling the beans. The "cover story" must hold.
Bobby Jo
Last edited:
They are elected officials...Senators and House of Representatives....
The legislative branch is the branch of the Oklahoma state government that creates the laws of Oklahoma. The Oklahoma Legislature, which makes up the legislative branch, consists of two chambers: the Senate and the House of Representatives.
I asked if our justice system can be trusted but u didn't answer.
So u wouldn't of been happy to have him locked away, u were only happy to have the killer killed...
So what did it accomplish? It satisfied your thirst for justice, your hunger for revenge based on your anger and resentment
Is that what Jesus wants u think... Does it love your enemy or forgive 77 times...
Im reminded of Pope John Paul 2
In 1981 our Holy Father was shot in an assassination attempt
He was hit with 4 bullets, suffered severe blood loss and almost died.
But the Pope didn't demand the death penalty, he didn't ask people to pray for his recovery.
Instead he asked people to pray for the man that shot him.
This is a true act of mercy that very few people can accomplish
What an unbelievable gesture
Y'all can aspire to be vengeful and punish evil with evil
I myself aspire to be as graceful and merciful as Pope John Paul 2
Anyway i really shouldn't be angry cos i already know the righteous indignation people have towards inmates which comes from an ignorance of the justice system and prison.
Having the people that killed people killed will always appeal to people i guess but it's definitely not the merciful will of Christ
Wow never knew that, it's a miracle that Pope John Paul II survived.
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
He really displayed the meaning of loving your enemy with that gesture.
The gunman was so moved by the Holy Father that he repented and converted to Christ.
Pope John Paul II was such an exceptional figurehead of the Church.
I remember when i was about 7yo my parents took us to Tulla airport to see him arrive.
I think im going to find a documentary on him to watch.
This brief video sort of sums him up well i think...
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
... so here's the Scriptural verse for "Operation Phoenix":
And even the verse for the Vietnam War Protesters:
...
12 And when the multitude is taken, his heart shall be exalted, and he shall cast down tens of thousands, but he shall not prevail.
And even the verse for the Vietnam War Protesters:
14 “In those times many shall rise against the king of the south; and the men of violence among your own people shall lift themselves up in order to fulfill the vision; but they shall fail.”
...
They are lawyers who lie like the Devil! You gonna execute someone for the Devil? Yes, God uses evil people against other evil people!
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Those verses have nothing to do with the death penalty... There are better ones but there all from the old Jewish law.
We aren't Jewish, we don't follow their Levitical and Mosaic laws apart from the 10 commandments.
Our covenant is the new one with Christ. It doesn't say to kill people who kill people. On the contrary.
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” John 8:3-7
“You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment ... Matthew 5:21-22
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" Hebrews 9:14
CCC 2267 - Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offence incapable of doing harm--without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself--the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are rare, if not practically non-existent.
I really am not going to go back and forth with this kind of rhetoric...I would enjoy talking intellectually over our different views but I will not give you my time with this kind of talk.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
... "Christians".. And these so called "Christians" keep posting their nonsense.
Makes you wonder if they're even in their teens yet.
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
@Bobby Jo @Heart2Soul
I think what kcnalp was trying to convey was the faults in the justice system, unfairness and corruption
Defence barristers are very expensive, many innocent people get convicted simply cos they cannot afford an attorney
On the flip side many guilty people walk free cos they had the money to pay an attorney
So the question would then become this; can the justice system be trusted with capital punishment
I think what kcnalp was trying to convey was the faults in the justice system, unfairness and corruption
Defence barristers are very expensive, many innocent people get convicted simply cos they cannot afford an attorney
On the flip side many guilty people walk free cos they had the money to pay an attorney
So the question would then become this; can the justice system be trusted with capital punishment
Similar threads
- Poll
