Death penalty.

[Bobby Jo]

... Makes me wonder how many innocents have been executed.

I wonder how many innocents have been victimized (both in jail and out of jail) by those who should have been executed. -- And I suspect that DEATH ratio is MUCH HIGHER.

So would you let a man judged guilty go free because of the Preponderance versus Concrete Evidence? And what of his victim and future victims? Are these CLEAR INNOCENTS now subjected to his own "Death Penalty"?


Life may be imperfect but we do the best we can. Otherwise, it's worse.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Death does not mean "cease to exist".

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Exactly. And THAT's why GOD gives the SWORD to the government, so that not only are the criminals deterred from sin, but also those who might see the recompense of criminals, -- so that by that example NONE should see eternal Hell.

"Death" is not extinction, it's merely "separation", first from the body and the from GOD.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... and to clarify my position, -- I don't think we should NEED a Death Penalty. All men should come to the saving knowledge of Jesus and obey the commandments.

Unfortunately the world we live in is not without sin. And so we do NEED a Death Penalty as presented above. And lacking this distinction, I will not vote.

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

AND here's a Youtube video which you must sign into your Google Account to view, where apparently FOUR Cops arrested a suspected of Forgery Attempt who was placed in handcuffs. An officer then placed is knee on the neck of the suspect (George Floyd) for some eight minutes preventing his ability to breathe. And of course he subsequently died "a short time later":

Police Murder Handcuffed Prisoner
10,577 views in one day
•May 26, 2020

And also:

George Floyd Died After Police Knelt on His Neck During Arrest
227,368 views in one day
•May 26, 2020

... And ...

4 police officers fired after death of unarmed black man
32,161 views in one day
•May 26, 2020​

So when you read Rev. 20, please expect these types of occurrences:

Rev. 20:4 ... Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.​

... and "beheaded" is synonymous with "murdered". -- Welcome to the ever increasing Police State where you and your family are disposable!
Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

As a son of a someone who used to work as a prison chaplain, I don't agree with the death penalty.

The death penalty is embedded in Scripture, particularly for heinous crimes. And the New Testament does not disagree with the Old.

 

[marksman]

Christians don't execute anyone!

You obviously have not been to some churches. There is more to execution than killing someone physically.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Wow! Here's a cop attempting to make a False Identification arrest of a Black Man with some 8 MILLION VIEWS. So the out of control POLICE STATE is sowing the wind, and the resulting whirlwind will include anarchists in our streets:

Cop Caught Arresting the Wrong Man in Racial Profiling Incident
8,121,635 views in ONE YEAR
•May 14, 2019

Maybe we need a different Poll about whether we should simply default the Death Penalty to an arresting Police Officer.

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[marksman]

Should there be a death penalty Yes or No?

As a son of a someone who used to work as a prison chaplain, I don't agree with the death penalty. I believe they too are human beings, they too can be saved, some are genuinely repentant in countries that still have the death penalty, and they are still put to death, the Bali 9 in Indonesia was a good example, Andrew Chan was a genuinely changed man, repentant, he turned to Jesus and deserved a second chance. But even though he significantly changed and was helping other prisoners, he still got put to death.

Found this arcticle.

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti....work.on.the.cross.shane.claiborne/134887.htm

I have done a lot of thinking on this subject as I don't feel you can make a blanket decision one way or another.

I have 12 grandchildren who I love so much and the thought of anyone willfully and deliberately killing a defenseless child should not be allowed to live.

I know that it is legal, but for me anyone that deliberately kills a baby in the womb should have the same fate of death.

A terrorist whose only purpose in life is to kill others should receive the same treatment, especially as they don't care if the victim is a woman or a child.

I think it is a dereliction of our duty if we don't protect the most vulnerable in society who have done no wrong. They have as much right to live as anyone else.

It was right that Tom Bundy who was a Christian and killed I think it was 13 women should have got the death penalty. Cases like that have given away their right to live.

I do think however that no one should be given the death penalty for murder unless it has been established without a shadow of a doubt that they were the perpetrator of the crime and it was premeditated. This is important because some of the books I have read showed that the legal authority wasn't interested in getting the killer. All they were interested in was getting A killer.

Over the last 2 or 3 years, I have read 40 books that have detailed specific crimes where a person has lost their life. The killer in some cases got the death penalty and is some they didn't because it wasn't premeditated.

Victims often feel hard done by because the sentence is so lenient. Recently a Catholic Priest got 10 years for abusing 43 victims. I would have happily given him 100 years and let him feel some of the pain he inflicted on innocent children.

What about love you say? Fine. I have copious amounts of love for those who have lost their lives and their family that has to suffer permanently. Some family members of murdered people suffer until the day they die.

 

[Stan B]

As a son of a someone who used to work as a prison chaplain, I don't agree with the death penalty.

The death penalty was mandated by God under the Mosaic Law. If it is good enough for God, it's good enough for me.

 

[Stan B]

How come my post No. 14 is now missing in this thread?

Not missing on my computer.

 

[Brakelite]

While I fully agree that if a man sheds another's blood unto death, then by the shedding of blood shall he die.
However, these days there is simply too much corruption in the justice system to believe in a just result.
Planted evidence by police to incriminate... Hiding of evidence to cover up... Working both ways whether guilty or innocent... Is just to common today for me to support the death penalty. In Israel's theocracy, and with the strict conditions applied to such decisions, then fine. But in today's secular society where Injustice is a hobby for so many, capital punishment cannot, at least for me, be supported.
On a counter-note, I would fully support true life sentences for murder and rape and the worst of violent crimes. And equally harsh sentences for deliberate perjury that results in a conviction.

 

[Scoot]

While I fully agree that if a man sheds another's blood unto death, then by the shedding of blood shall he die.
However, these days there is simply too much corruption in the justice system to believe in a just result.
Planted evidence by police to incriminate... Hiding of evidence to cover up... Working both ways whether guilty or innocent... Is just to common today for me to support the death penalty. In Israel's theocracy, and with the strict conditions applied to such decisions, then fine. But in today's secular society where Injustice is a hobby for so many, capital punishment cannot, at least for me, be supported.
On a counter-note, I would fully support true life sentences for murder and rape and the worst of violent crimes. And equally harsh sentences for deliberate perjury that results in a conviction.

I used to be pro-death penalty but have changed my mind for this exact reason. Governments have become so corrupt - I fear that it would be used wickedly than for truth.

I also sometimes wonder if the death penalty is more merciful (eternally speaking) than life in prison - as I suspect (and it's only a guess) that more people search for God more seriously when faced with their own mortality - and being in prison has a greater chance of hardening someone's heart the longer they stay (if in for life). This in itself doesn't justify whether or not the death penalty should exist - just that I have suspicions that more people who have been put on death row in the USA repent than those who are in their for life.

 

[Scoot]

Police Murder Handcuffed Prisoner
10,577 views in one day
•May 26, 2020

That video is horrible to watch - but I've been made aware there could be more at play than is realised. I in no way condone the actions of the officer who kept his knee on the suspects throat through the whole time but I have reason to suspect that it's possible he may have died regardless. (I know - looking at the video I had the same reason - there can only be one cause - until I was given information I wasn't aware of). The video doesn't show what happened prior to the arrest, and I've been made aware of something called excited delirium death.

Again - I don't believe that the officer's actions were right at all, and and are in favour of his dismissal for his conduct - especially when the suspect became non responsive - but I wouldn't judge him as a murderer until there's been an investigation and the actual cause of death is determined, and whether the officer's conduct was the cause.

I think we need to be careful - especially as Christians we need to value truth over emotion not to jump to immediate conclusions until we have all the facts presented to us.[/QUOTE]

 

[FollowHim]

Should there be a death penalty Yes or No?

As a son of a someone who used to work as a prison chaplain, I don't agree with the death penalty. I believe they too are human beings, they too can be saved, some are genuinely repentant in countries that still have the death penalty, and they are still put to death, the Bali 9 in Indonesia was a good example, Andrew Chan was a genuinely changed man, repentant, he turned to Jesus and deserved a second chance. But even though he significantly changed and was helping other prisoners, he still got put to death.

Found this arcticle.

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti....work.on.the.cross.shane.claiborne/134887.htm

Most murderers are disfunctional individuals who need time to sort themselves out.

With innocents dying, and lives changed, the death penalty seems unjust and unforgiving. Most serious people hate life in prison, death is a release. The numbers of executions are so small, they have no impact if they stop, and remove the last vestage of revenge in often tragic situations.

The idea that society can judge or can execute others, other than crudely is the issue. The guilt of killing innocents seems better to spare the guilty but deprive them of freedom.

 

[Cristo Rei]

No doubt, there are many innocents in prison! The courts are filled with corrupt Judges and lawyers! Makes me wonder how many innocents have been executed.

I remember when i used to think that the justice system was fair. I admired the lady of justice and the supposed meaning in her symbolism.
The blindfold is meant to show that she is impartial
The scales represent the balance of probability
And her sword represents swift justice
Such beautiful symbolism, righteous and honourable... But...

I met the lady of justice and it saddens me that she no longer holds to her virtues. The symbolism has changed
The scales is where the money goes
She's blindfolded cos she turns a blind eye
And her sword represents slaughter

 

[Cristo Rei]

The problem with the death penalty is this...

1/ There is only justice for those that can afford it. Defence barristers are expensive
Heaps of people are in prison simply because they couldn't afford a lawyer

2/ It's all about the Benjamin's. U pay the barrister $30,000, he'll pass $10,000 to the prosecutor or judge and the problem disappears
Iv seen identical cases with different outcomes and by sisters ex partner was a barrister and told me how it works, never like him much

Humans cannot be trusted with the decision of taking someones life
There is also the prison industrial complex where they have made it a money making industry by privatizing the prisons. The USA is just mind-blowing. People are in prison for breaking laws that are so small their not even crimes. And the conditions in some of those prisons are inhumane.

How long should a prisoner be kept in solitary with no sunlight or fresh air? 5 days, 15 days, 45 days?

Every case is unique and has to be judged accordingly so it's hard to make blanket statements like "all murderers should die"
I believe a first time offender should be given a chance. 1 to 3 years is enough. If the they re-offend then give them hard time

If Christ can forgive the repentant one then why can't we

 

[Josho]

The problem with the death penalty is this...

1/ There is only justice for those that can afford it. Defence barristers are expensive
Heaps of people are in prison simply because they couldn't afford a lawyer

2/ It's all about the Benjamin's. U pay the barrister $30,000, he'll pass $10,000 to the prosecutor or judge and the problem disappears
Iv seen identical cases with different outcomes and by sisters ex partner was a barrister and told me how it works, never like him much

Humans cannot be trusted with the decision of taking someones life

Every case is unique and has to be judged accordingly so it's hard to make blanket statements like "all murderers should die"
I believe a first time offender should be given a chance. 1 to 3 years is enough. If the they re-offend then give them hard time

If Christ can forgive the repentant one then why can't we

Yep, this world does need to learn to forgive more.

Today a lot are treated as once a criminal, always a criminal.

Or even it might be simply something someone may say, and people hold that against someone for a long time.....

Or even someone that's innocent that has been put in front of the public spotlight, and the media, and the public goes slamming and grilling them, when they had been wrongly accused. Or even if they did something minor wrong, they sometimes get slammed for it too.

 

[Josho]

It seems to me anything short of perfect in the public eye is just not good enough in today's world, when being not perfect is just part of human nature.

 

[Rita]

I have never really found it very easy to know what I feel about the death penalty- it’s not a part of society anymore in the UK, but often comes up in conversation. I often feel concerned when it’s proven years later that someone was imprisoned wrongly for a crime that would have been punished by death years ago- so I think I would only agree with this penalty If the evidence , forensic and other, proved 100% that the person was guilty.
On the other hand, with all the corruption within those is power, would there be any way of really knowing the truth if someone wanted to frame another ..
I have often wondered how people in different States in the US deal with this issue, does it make a lottery of where you live with regards to how you are punished - and how is it that this is not a general consensus rather than governed by who is in charge of a state - perhaps someone can give me some insight on that.
I often think of those that have to carry out the execution as well, wonder if it affects them !?
I guess another question to ask is if you had to carry out an execution, how would you feel about it as a Christian ?
Rita

 

[Josho]

I have never really found it very easy to know what I feel about the death penalty- it’s not a part of society anymore in the UK, but often comes up in conversation. I often feel concerned when it’s proven years later that someone was imprisoned wrongly for a crime that would have been punished by death years ago- so I think I would only agree with this penalty If the evidence , forensic and other, proved 100% that the person was guilty.
On the other hand, with all the corruption within those is power, would there be any way of really knowing the truth if someone wanted to frame another ..
I have often wondered how people in different States in the US deal with this issue, does it make a lottery of where you live with regards to how you are punished - and how is it that this is not a general consensus rather than governed by who is in charge of a state - perhaps someone can give me some insight on that.
I often think of those that have to carry out the execution as well, wonder if it affects them !?
I guess another question to ask is if you had to carry out an execution, how would you feel about it as a Christian ?
Rita

I don't know how one would feel to be an executioner, but it must be hard to live with that sort of job.

I certainly wouldn't feel good about it.