Deconstruction Part 2: Into Apostolicity

[Johann]

Amen, there is always something new to glean in the scriptures. But you are talking as if there is some kind of competition between "hearing" from God and the scriptures. They are not mutually exclusive by any means.

I came to faith when I was just about to graduate from nursing school. I had a child I was raising on my own and was worried and distressed about how me working crazy shifts would affect him and was praying and asking God what to do. I heard a very clear "part-time"...it was so distinct and clear it sounded audible but was on the inside of me. I didn't know how things worked in hospitals yet but I soon found a position that had regular fixed part time shifts but was very flexible and I could easily add shifts that worked for my needs and I wasn't locked into a rotation that involved night shifts. I didn't know this was even possible, but God did. Another time maybe about a year later I was about to make another important decision that I was having doubts about...the Lord spoke a word of wisdom to me through someone I was working with who was also Christian.....and I chose to ignore it. In my heart I felt it was God but my mind wasn't sure, not having any experience yet......I asked an elder at the cessationist church about it and he shrugged it off. That was before I knew their beliefs in that regard. Well I sure did live to regret ignoring the word of the Lord I can tell you, and it didn't just affect me but even worse, my son as well. But at least I learned some things, albeit the hard way, about how God may speak in various ways, and I learned to recognize that inner knowing (unction/witness) to be from the Lord......and also I learned to fear Him.....not wise to ignore the word of the Lord. And oh yes, I learned to not believe people over God. ;)

 

[Hepzibah]

This only works for believers who are content with a distant God, one who only communicates with letters. What would a marriage be like if the husband only wrote to his wife? Why would believers in the OT be blessed with hearing God speak to them yet we are not?

Any extra biblical word from God must match with what is written in scripture. That is how we know it is God and not our own thoughts or worse.

 

[Johann]

This only works for believers who are content with a distant God, one who only communicates with letters. What would a marriage be like if the husband only wrote to his wife? Why would believers in the OT be blessed with hearing God speak to them yet we are not?

Any extra biblical word from God must match with what is written in scripture. That is how we know it is God and not our own thoughts or worse.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV):
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Context:
The book of Hebrews begins with a majestic declaration about God's revelation throughout history. The author contrasts how God communicated with the Jewish ancestors through prophets in various manners and times ("many times and in many ways"). However, in the present age ("in these last days"), God has spoken to humanity through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Exegesis:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways: This phrase emphasizes the diverse methods and occasions through which God communicated with the Jewish people in the Old Testament era. It underscores the progressive and varied nature of God's revelation prior to Christ.

He has spoken to us by his Son: This marks a definitive shift in God's method of revelation. The Son, Jesus Christ, is portrayed as the ultimate and final spokesperson of God's message to humanity. This implies the superiority of Christ's revelation over all previous forms of divine communication.

Whom he appointed the heir of all things: Jesus is not only the spokesperson but also the rightful heir of all creation, indicating His supreme authority and sovereignty.

Through whom also he created the world: This phrase asserts Christ's active role in creation, aligning Him with divine wisdom and power.

Exegesis of Romans 10:14
Romans 10:14 (ESV):
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

Context:
In Romans 10, the apostle Paul discusses the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation, highlighting the role of preaching and proclamation in the process of people coming to faith.

Exegesis:

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?: Paul begins with a rhetorical question emphasizing the logical progression from belief to calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation. This highlights the foundational requirement of faith in Christ.

And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?: Paul reinforces the necessity of hearing about Christ in order to believe in Him. This underscores the importance of the gospel message being communicated verbally and clearly.

And how are they to hear without someone preaching?: Here, Paul emphasizes the crucial role of preaching or proclamation in spreading the gospel. Without someone proclaiming the message, people cannot hear and respond in faith.

Summary:
Hebrews 1:1-2 emphasizes the superiority of Christ's revelation as God's final spokesperson compared to previous methods of divine communication.
Romans 10:14 underscores the necessity of hearing the gospel through preaching in order for people to believe in Christ and be saved.

Thanks
J.

 

[Hepzibah]

Just to make it clear - what is going on in charismania is highly suspect.

When I was a Calvinist, for 7 years or so - you're right, God never spoke to me directly. I never expected it and would have denounced it. But since then, and after reaching the stage of entire sanctification, Jesus speaks to me. I alwys check it is not contradicting scripture and know scripture very well thanks to Calvinism (who misinterpret it)Not all the time, but when it is necessary or just to say 'Thou good and faithful servant'. Blessed words!

So how does a man knows he is called to the ministry?

 

[Johann]

Just to make it clear - what is going on in charismania is highly suspect.

When I was a Calvinist, for 7 years or so - you're right, God never spoke to me directly. I never expected it and would have denounced it. But since then, and after reaching the stage of entire sanctification, Jesus speaks to me. I alwys check it is not contradicting scripture and know scripture very well thanks to Calvinism (who misinterpret it)Not all the time, but when it is necessary or just to say 'Thou good and faithful servant'. Blessed words!

So how does a man knows he is called to the ministry?

Go ahead- you tell me @Hepzibah

 

[Hepzibah]

He doesn't. That is why Reformed ministers preach lies. Only the Spirit within can confirm the calling which the Reformed will not experience.

 

[Johann]

He doesn't. That is why Reformed ministers preach lies. Only the Spirit within can confirm the calling which the Reformed will not experience.

And how does the Spirit confirm your calling? I think in today's Modern Wold everyone preaches lies-right? And are you Wesleyan?

 

[Hepzibah]

'His sheep hear His voice'.

No, most mix truth with lies, Calvinists being the worst.

Not Wesleyan no but not too far from his teaching on holiness. He missed the mark by not understanding the early church fathers enough.

 

[Johann]

'His sheep hear His voice'.

No, most mix truth with lies, Calvinists being the worst.

Not Wesleyan no but not too far from his teaching on holiness. He missed the mark by not understanding the early church fathers enough.

Missing context, as always--

On His sheep "hearing" His voice.

 

[Lizbeth]

This only works for believers who are content with a distant God, one who only communicates with letters. What would a marriage be like if the husband only wrote to his wife? Why would believers in the OT be blessed with hearing God speak to them yet we are not?

Any extra biblical word from God must match with what is written in scripture. That is how we know it is God and not our own thoughts or worse.

Amen. Something more intimate and immediate about talking with our loved ones face to face when they come to visit, as opposed to just reading their letters. Both are good, and both are valid methods of communication, but there is something to be said for being face to face. Mouth to mouth, like a kiss from heaven. Jesus said to some religious leaders, you are they who search the scriptures diligently and they testify ABOUT me, but ye refuse to come to ME that you might have LIFE. It's part of having a LIVING heart to heart relationship with our heavenly Father.

Specific personal words of direction/instruction we will not see in scripture.....but then again by knowing scripture we might know whether something we are hearing is consistent with His character or not. For example if we are hearing that we should rob a bank or do violence to someone for no reason, that is not of God. It's by faith, and we learn to discern the difference between the Spirit of the Lord and another source. Wisdom is proved right by her children....proof is in the pudding, the outcome. Thinking of Abraham who didn't have scriptures to compare with, he only had faith - and faith is not of the carnal mind, but of the spirit/heart.

 

[Episkopos]

I bet you have thousands more "voices inside your head" experiences that you can tell me about-right?

Seeking the Spirit apart from the Word
The charismatic movement began barely a hundred years ago, but its influence on evangelicalism can hardly be overstated. Its chief legacy has been an unprecedented interest in extrabiblical revelation. Millions influenced by charismatic doctrine are convinced that God speaks to them directly. "The Lord told me ..." has become the favorite cliché among these Christians.

Not all who believe that God speaks to them make prophetic pronouncements as outlandish as those broadcast by charismatic televangelists, of course. But they still believe God gives them extrabiblical messages—either through an audible voice, a vision, a voice in their heads, or simply an internal impression. In most cases, their "prophecies" are comparatively trivial. But the difference between them and Hinn's predictions is merely one of scale, not of substance.

The notion that God is giving messages to Christians today has received support from some surprising sources. Wayne Grudem, professor of biblical and systematic theology at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, believes God gives Christians prophetic messages by bringing specific thoughts to mind. Such impressions should be reported as postapostolic, nonbinding prophecy, he says.

Similar ideas have found sweeping acceptance even among noncharismatic Christians. Evangelicals have eagerly devoured Experiencing God, by Henry Blackaby and Claude King, which suggests that the main way the Holy Spirit leads believers is by speaking to them directly. According to Blackaby, when God gives an individual a message that pertains to the church, it should be shared with the whole body. As a result, extrabiblical "words from the Lord" are now commonplace even among noncharismatic evangelicals.

Why do so many modern Christians seek revelation from God through means other than Scripture? Certainly not because it is a reliable way to discover truth. All sides admit that modern prophecies are often completely erroneous. In my book Charismatic Chaos, I quote one leading "prophet" who was thrilled because he believed that two-thirds of his prophecies were accurate. "Well that's better than it's ever been up to now, you know. That's the highest level it's ever been."

In other words, modern prophecy is not a much more reliable way to discern truth than a Magic Eight-Ball or Tarot cards. And, I would add, it is equally superstitious. There is not warrant anywhere in Scripture for Christians to listen for fresh revelation from God beyond what he has already given us in his written Word. In fact, Scripture unsparingly condemns all who speak even one word falsely or presumptuously in the Lord's name (Deut. 18:20-22). But such warnings are simply ignored these days by those who claim to have heard afresh from God.

Not surprisingly, wherever there is a preoccupation with "fresh" prophecy, there is inevitably a neglect of the Scriptures. After all, why be concerned with an ancient book if the living God communicates directly with us on a daily basis, however subtly? These fresh words of "revelation" naturally seem more relevant and more urgent than the familiar words of the Bible. Is it any wonder that they draw people away from Scripture?

The Sufficiency of Scripture
That is precisely why modern evangelicalism's infatuation with extrabiblical revelation is so dangerous. It is a return to medieval superstition and a departure from our fundamental conviction that the Bible is our sole, supreme, and sufficient authority for all of life. In other words, it represents a wholesale abandonment of the principle of sola Scriptura. Historic Protestantism is grounded in the conviction that the canon is closed. No "new" revelation is necessary because Scripture is complete and absolutely sufficient.

Scripture itself is clear that the day of God's speaking directly to his people through various prophetic words and visions is past. The truth God has revealed in Christ—including the complete New Testament canon—is his final word (Heb. 1:1-2; cf. Jude 3; Rev. 22:18-19).

Scripture—the written Word of God—is perfectly sufficient, containing all the revelation we need. Paul tells Timothy: "From infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Tim. 3:15-17).

That passage makes two very important statements. First, "all Scripture is God-breathed." Scripture speaks with the authority of God himself! It is certain, reliable, and true. Jesus himself prayed in John 17:17, "Your word is truth." Psalm 119:160 says, "All your words are true." These statements set Scripture above every human opinion, every speculation, and every emotional sensation. Scripture alone stands as definitive truth. It speaks with an authority that transcends every other voice.

Second, the passage teaches that Scripture is utterly sufficient, "able to make you wise for salvation" and able to make you "thoroughly equipped for every good work." What clearer affirmation of the absolute sufficiency of Scripture could anyone ask for? Those who seek fresh messages from God have, in effect, scorned the absolute certainty and absolute sufficiency of the written Word of God. And they have set in its place their own fallen and fallible imaginations.

Does this mean God has stopped speaking? Certainly not, but he speaks today through his Word. Does the Spirit of God move our hearts and impress us with specific duties or callings? Certainly, but he works through the Word of God to do that. Such experiences are in no sense prophetic or authoritative. They are not revelation, but the effect of illumination, when the Holy Spirit applies the Word of God to our hearts and opens our spiritual eyes to its truth.

We must guard carefully against allowing our experience and our own subjective thoughts and imaginations to eclipse the authority and the certainty of the more sure Word.

This is the same old "Law Versus Grace" argument. How can we know that anything outside the law is from God? We know the law is from God. But what of the testimonies in the NT? Are these backed up by the law? So the early Christians were persecuted for their "extra-scriptural" experiences and testimonies.

It is the Spirit that gives life, not the bible. The bible is on the level of the law...the instructions, the Torah from God. But the bible doesn't give us the power to fulfill it. That is by the Spirit

It is the doers of the law (word) that are justified....not just hearers or readers...and this not of themselves. God has to approve our conduct. Only He can do that. No bible reading can justify a person. Before Him no flesh can justify itself for either works or beliefs. One is not justified for believing the bible. No, one is justified by obedience to it.

And of course there are many aberrations, false prophets, false witnesses.....etc...etc. Just as there are many who repudiate the real thing in order to continue to live on the carnal level....by comparing themselves favourable to those who go too far the other way. Balance is rare among humans.

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course there exists what is false and that is why we are told to test all things. By all means expose them. But are you investigating and trying to discern real testimonies too though? That is harder to do because they are not generally found in the limelight....even though there are lots of testimonies out there since it is just normal for God to speak to His children and also do other miraculous things at times.

 

[Episkopos]

Reading the bible should provide us with more questions that answers. Once we get the questions right, we can seek God's face for answers. That's when He speaks to us...directly with the "still small voice". Doing so we avoid indoctrination, opinions, surmising, assumptions, presumptions...etc. But how can you explain deeper things to people who are satisfied with wind and air?

My next podcast (#42)....well, the next one I record after the release of his next one (#41) will be about hearing God's voice. Many people have a very shallow understanding of this...acting as if God cares about things in this world the same way we do. God speaks to us for eternal purposes...building His kingdom, His church....otherwise its only premonitions that come from somewhere inside our heads...but without the actual voice of God. I testify of God's voice speaking directly to us as I have received so many directives from Him...

If we seek FIRST His kingdom and righteousness THEN all these other things will be added unto us. But people want the other things first.

 

[Lizbeth]

Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV):
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Context:
The book of Hebrews begins with a majestic declaration about God's revelation throughout history. The author contrasts how God communicated with the Jewish ancestors through prophets in various manners and times ("many times and in many ways"). However, in the present age ("in these last days"), God has spoken to humanity through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Exegesis:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways: This phrase emphasizes the diverse methods and occasions through which God communicated with the Jewish people in the Old Testament era. It underscores the progressive and varied nature of God's revelation prior to Christ.

He has spoken to us by his Son: This marks a definitive shift in God's method of revelation. The Son, Jesus Christ, is portrayed as the ultimate and final spokesperson of God's message to humanity. This implies the superiority of Christ's revelation over all previous forms of divine communication.

Whom he appointed the heir of all things: Jesus is not only the spokesperson but also the rightful heir of all creation, indicating His supreme authority and sovereignty.

Through whom also he created the world: This phrase asserts Christ's active role in creation, aligning Him with divine wisdom and power.

Exegesis of Romans 10:14
Romans 10:14 (ESV):
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

Context:
In Romans 10, the apostle Paul discusses the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation, highlighting the role of preaching and proclamation in the process of people coming to faith.

Exegesis:

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?: Paul begins with a rhetorical question emphasizing the logical progression from belief to calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation. This highlights the foundational requirement of faith in Christ.

And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?: Paul reinforces the necessity of hearing about Christ in order to believe in Him. This underscores the importance of the gospel message being communicated verbally and clearly.

And how are they to hear without someone preaching?: Here, Paul emphasizes the crucial role of preaching or proclamation in spreading the gospel. Without someone proclaiming the message, people cannot hear and respond in faith.

Summary:
Hebrews 1:1-2 emphasizes the superiority of Christ's revelation as God's final spokesperson compared to previous methods of divine communication.
Romans 10:14 underscores the necessity of hearing the gospel through preaching in order for people to believe in Christ and be saved.

Thanks
J.

Except that in spite of God speaking to us by His Son, He still had prophets in the early church, so that reasoning doesn't seem to hold water. And the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus....and therefore not at all in conflict with the Lord speaking by His Son. Jesus Himself was a prophet....He prophesied......aren't we supposed to be like Him? (or some among us, whoever has the gift of prophecy - together as His whole Body with all the parts, we are like Him in a more wholistic way.)

 

[Johann]

Of course there exists what is false and that is why we are told to test all things. By all means expose them. But are you investigating and trying to discern real testimonies too though? That is harder to do because they are not generally found in the limelight....even though there are lots of testimonies out there since it is just normal for God to speak to His children and also do other miraculous things at times.

So far you have not answered one of my questions nor listen to the links I provided and try to rebut it.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV):
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Context:
The book of Hebrews begins with a majestic declaration about God's revelation throughout history. The author contrasts how God communicated with the Jewish ancestors through prophets in various manners and times ("many times and in many ways"). However, in the present age ("in these last days"), God has spoken to humanity through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Exegesis:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways: This phrase emphasizes the diverse methods and occasions through which God communicated with the Jewish people in the Old Testament era. It underscores the progressive and varied nature of God's revelation prior to Christ.

He has spoken to us by his Son: This marks a definitive shift in God's method of revelation. The Son, Jesus Christ, is portrayed as the ultimate and final spokesperson of God's message to humanity. This implies the superiority of Christ's revelation over all previous forms of divine communication.

Whom he appointed the heir of all things: Jesus is not only the spokesperson but also the rightful heir of all creation, indicating His supreme authority and sovereignty.

Through whom also he created the world: This phrase asserts Christ's active role in creation, aligning Him with divine wisdom and power.

Exegesis of Romans 10:14
Romans 10:14 (ESV):
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

Context:
In Romans 10, the apostle Paul discusses the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation, highlighting the role of preaching and proclamation in the process of people coming to faith.

Exegesis:

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?: Paul begins with a rhetorical question emphasizing the logical progression from belief to calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation. This highlights the foundational requirement of faith in Christ.

And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?: Paul reinforces the necessity of hearing about Christ in order to believe in Him. This underscores the importance of the gospel message being communicated verbally and clearly.

And how are they to hear without someone preaching?: Here, Paul emphasizes the crucial role of preaching or proclamation in spreading the gospel. Without someone proclaiming the message, people cannot hear and respond in faith.

Summary:
Hebrews 1:1-2 emphasizes the superiority of Christ's revelation as God's final spokesperson compared to previous methods of divine communication.
Romans 10:14 underscores the necessity of hearing the gospel through preaching in order for people to believe in Christ and be saved.

2 Peter 1:19-21:
19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Context:
In this passage, Peter is addressing believers and emphasizing the reliability of the Scriptures (the prophetic word). He contrasts this with the personal experiences of witnessing Christ's transfiguration (mentioned earlier in the chapter), stating that the Scriptures are even more certain and trustworthy than such personal experiences.

Exegesis:

The prophetic word more fully confirmed: Peter asserts that the Scriptures, which contain the prophetic word (prophecies and teachings), are completely reliable and trustworthy. The phrase "more fully confirmed" indicates their solidity and reliability as compared to other sources of spiritual knowledge or revelation.

Pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place: This simile illustrates the function of Scripture as a source of illumination in a spiritually dark world. It guides and enlightens believers, providing clarity and direction amidst moral and spiritual challenges.

No prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation: Peter affirms the divine origin of Scripture. The prophets who wrote Scripture did not speak on their own authority or interpretation; rather, they were inspired and guided by God Himself.

Men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit: This verse emphasizes the process of divine inspiration. The human authors of Scripture were moved or carried along by the Holy Spirit, ensuring that what they wrote was exactly what God intended.

Summary and Application:
Certainty of Scripture: Peter assures believers that the Scriptures are more certain and reliable than any personal experiences or revelations. They provide a solid foundation for faith and practice.

Divine Origin and Authority: The authority of Scripture derives from its divine origin. It is not a product of human interpretation but is inspired by God through the agency of the Holy Spirit.

Practical Guidance: Believers are encouraged to pay close attention to Scripture, viewing it as a lamp that shines in darkness, guiding their steps and providing wisdom for life.

A lot of false assumptions.
Thanks
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

Thank you for not directly answer my questions.
Lot of experiences and "voices" attributed falsely to the Holy Spirit.

Correct you are-I don't believe people over the Lord Jesus Christ

Your questions don't sound very friendly brother. Lamb before the shearers was silent. Also I don't generally like to talk about myself unless the Lord opens the door and leads me to, you know? God speaks/witnesses in many ways. I would guess that an audible voice is probably the rarest way...and different people have different gifts, so some might hear His voice audibly more than others during their life, and some never. I don't think I've ever heard Him speak audibly in a way that others would be able to hear if they were standing there. He witnesses to my spirit that I am His child the same way He witnesses to my spirit that it is He speaking when He speaks, by an inner unction or knowing. Which as I testified, I learned the hard way to recognize and heed.

 

[Johann]

It is the Spirit that gives life, not the bible. The bible is on the level of the law...the instructions, the Torah from God. But the bible doesn't give us the power to fulfill it. That is by the Spirit

SHHH! DID YOU HEAR THAT?
WAS GOD TRYING TO SPEAK TO ME?
It is woven into the fabric of modern evangelicalism. The subject of numerous books, conferences, and sermons every year, it’s promoted as essential for a vibrant relationship with Christ, and a measure of the maturity of your faith. What is it? Hearing God speak personally, outside of Scripture.
But is God trying to speak to you through signs, impressions, and subtle promptings? Is He whispering to you in a still, small voice, hoping to grab your attention? Does Scripture promise that every Christian will receive personal, private revelations from the Lord?

In God Doesn’t Whisper, Pastor Jim Osman examines the assumptions, practices, and proof texts of those who promote a theology of hearing the voice of God. Dig into the texts often cited in defense of trying to hear God speak outside of His written Word. Scripture is clear: God doesn’t whisper.

God Doesn't Whisper — Jim Osman, Author/Pastor

In this book, Jim Osman examines the assumptions, practices, and proof texts of those who promote a theology of hearing the voice of God.

jimosman.com

 

[Johann]

Your questions don't sound very friendly brother. Lamb before the shearers was silent. Also I don't generally like to talk about myself unless the Lord opens the door and leads me to, you know? God speaks/witnesses in many ways. I would guess that an audible voice is probably the rarest way...and different people have different gifts, so some might hear His voice audibly more than others during their life, and some never. I don't think I've ever heard Him speak audibly in a way that others would be able to hear if they were standing there. He witnesses to my spirit that I am His child the same way He witnesses to my spirit that it is He speaking when He speaks, by an inner unction or knowing. Which as I testified, I learned the hard way to recognize and heed.

Well if my questions don't sound friendly you don't have to answer @Lizbeth.



SHHH! DID YOU HEAR THAT?
WAS GOD TRYING TO SPEAK TO ME?
It is woven into the fabric of modern evangelicalism. The subject of numerous books, conferences, and sermons every year, it’s promoted as essential for a vibrant relationship with Christ, and a measure of the maturity of your faith. What is it? Hearing God speak personally, outside of Scripture.
But is God trying to speak to you through signs, impressions, and subtle promptings? Is He whispering to you in a still, small voice, hoping to grab your attention? Does Scripture promise that every Christian will receive personal, private revelations from the Lord?

In God Doesn’t Whisper, Pastor Jim Osman examines the assumptions, practices, and proof texts of those who promote a theology of hearing the voice of God. Dig into the texts often cited in defense of trying to hear God speak outside of His written Word. Scripture is clear: God doesn’t whisper.

God Doesn't Whisper — Jim Osman, Author/Pastor

In this book, Jim Osman examines the assumptions, practices, and proof texts of those who promote a theology of hearing the voice of God.

jimosman.com

The "Have and have nots" A quote from Justin Peters.
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

So far you have not answered one of my questions nor listen to the links I provided and try to rebut it.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV):
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Context:
The book of Hebrews begins with a majestic declaration about God's revelation throughout history. The author contrasts how God communicated with the Jewish ancestors through prophets in various manners and times ("many times and in many ways"). However, in the present age ("in these last days"), God has spoken to humanity through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Exegesis:

Long ago, at many times and in many ways: This phrase emphasizes the diverse methods and occasions through which God communicated with the Jewish people in the Old Testament era. It underscores the progressive and varied nature of God's revelation prior to Christ.

He has spoken to us by his Son: This marks a definitive shift in God's method of revelation. The Son, Jesus Christ, is portrayed as the ultimate and final spokesperson of God's message to humanity. This implies the superiority of Christ's revelation over all previous forms of divine communication.

Whom he appointed the heir of all things: Jesus is not only the spokesperson but also the rightful heir of all creation, indicating His supreme authority and sovereignty.

Through whom also he created the world: This phrase asserts Christ's active role in creation, aligning Him with divine wisdom and power.

Exegesis of Romans 10:14
Romans 10:14 (ESV):
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

Context:
In Romans 10, the apostle Paul discusses the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation, highlighting the role of preaching and proclamation in the process of people coming to faith.

Exegesis:

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?: Paul begins with a rhetorical question emphasizing the logical progression from belief to calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation. This highlights the foundational requirement of faith in Christ.

And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?: Paul reinforces the necessity of hearing about Christ in order to believe in Him. This underscores the importance of the gospel message being communicated verbally and clearly.

And how are they to hear without someone preaching?: Here, Paul emphasizes the crucial role of preaching or proclamation in spreading the gospel. Without someone proclaiming the message, people cannot hear and respond in faith.

Summary:
Hebrews 1:1-2 emphasizes the superiority of Christ's revelation as God's final spokesperson compared to previous methods of divine communication.
Romans 10:14 underscores the necessity of hearing the gospel through preaching in order for people to believe in Christ and be saved.

2 Peter 1:19-21:
19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Context:
In this passage, Peter is addressing believers and emphasizing the reliability of the Scriptures (the prophetic word). He contrasts this with the personal experiences of witnessing Christ's transfiguration (mentioned earlier in the chapter), stating that the Scriptures are even more certain and trustworthy than such personal experiences.

Exegesis:

The prophetic word more fully confirmed: Peter asserts that the Scriptures, which contain the prophetic word (prophecies and teachings), are completely reliable and trustworthy. The phrase "more fully confirmed" indicates their solidity and reliability as compared to other sources of spiritual knowledge or revelation.

Pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place: This simile illustrates the function of Scripture as a source of illumination in a spiritually dark world. It guides and enlightens believers, providing clarity and direction amidst moral and spiritual challenges.

No prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation: Peter affirms the divine origin of Scripture. The prophets who wrote Scripture did not speak on their own authority or interpretation; rather, they were inspired and guided by God Himself.

Men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit: This verse emphasizes the process of divine inspiration. The human authors of Scripture were moved or carried along by the Holy Spirit, ensuring that what they wrote was exactly what God intended.

Summary and Application:
Certainty of Scripture: Peter assures believers that the Scriptures are more certain and reliable than any personal experiences or revelations. They provide a solid foundation for faith and practice.

Divine Origin and Authority: The authority of Scripture derives from its divine origin. It is not a product of human interpretation but is inspired by God through the agency of the Holy Spirit.

Practical Guidance: Believers are encouraged to pay close attention to Scripture, viewing it as a lamp that shines in darkness, guiding their steps and providing wisdom for life.

A lot of false assumptions.
Thanks
J.

I can't keep up brother. Old lady here, my health is very so-so but I'll spare you all the very boring details. God is working all things together for our good....think we all need a cross to carry and thorns in the flesh and to endure the olive press in whatever form it takes at any time.

To be honest, not saying this to insult or belittle anyone, but what I discern/perceive in a lot of the commentary you are bringing with this subject, especially on the other thread, is a lot of puffing up against God. Puffed up mere opinions of the carnal mind exhalting themselves above the knowledge of God.

And they are making the same mistake that many do with other subjects.........instead of letting the word of God simply instruct them and inform their doctrine and beliefs in the first place, they go hunting for things that might seem to support or prove their already established beliefs and doctrines.

What I'm discerning is that cessationism is a deception. All the false stuff that is out there seeming to be more visible and speaking more loudly than the true.........is the devil attempting and often succeeding, to discredit the true. Let's not be fooled or distracted by all his huffing and puffing and attention seeking.

 

[Lizbeth]

Well if my questions don't sound friendly you don't have to answer @Lizbeth.



SHHH! DID YOU HEAR THAT?
WAS GOD TRYING TO SPEAK TO ME?
It is woven into the fabric of modern evangelicalism. The subject of numerous books, conferences, and sermons every year, it’s promoted as essential for a vibrant relationship with Christ, and a measure of the maturity of your faith. What is it? Hearing God speak personally, outside of Scripture.
But is God trying to speak to you through signs, impressions, and subtle promptings? Is He whispering to you in a still, small voice, hoping to grab your attention? Does Scripture promise that every Christian will receive personal, private revelations from the Lord?

In God Doesn’t Whisper, Pastor Jim Osman examines the assumptions, practices, and proof texts of those who promote a theology of hearing the voice of God. Dig into the texts often cited in defense of trying to hear God speak outside of His written Word. Scripture is clear: God doesn’t whisper.

God Doesn't Whisper — Jim Osman, Author/Pastor

In this book, Jim Osman examines the assumptions, practices, and proof texts of those who promote a theology of hearing the voice of God.

jimosman.com

The "Have and have nots" A quote from Justin Peters.
J.

I'm guessing you have not received the Holy Spirit yet since ye believed because you are cessationist....? That gives the believer more spiritual power behind him and "enlarges" their spiritual gifts I think would be one way to put it. Like driving on 8 cylinders instead of 4. And it enables us to grow more in other ways as well....like putting some fertilizer in the soil so the tree will grow more.