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Featured Defining the Legalist

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The correct New Testament idea/definition of Legalism is : anything that a person (believer or non-believer) has MENTALLY substituted for God's Grace as their self righteous attempt to accomplish what only God's Grace can offer/achieve as a Free Gift.

    Simply stated : Its whatever you think you have to DO to keep yourself in God's Grace, that has now replaced the Cross of Christ.

    Even more simply stated : It's you trying to keep yourself saved, because you no longer have complete trust in Jesus alone, to get you into heaven.

    And again.: Its your list of do's and don't do's that you are trying to execute as a lifestyle that you now BELIEVE are what God wants from you so that you can end up in Heaven.
    An example would be a heretic who has substituted "abiding" for the Cross, or a heretic who believes that belonging to the "one true church" is how you end up in Heaven.

    And finally : its ALL that stuff you think you have to do to stay saved. Do you have a list? Every heretic does.

    So, what is all of this? ???
    Its a person who has fallen FROM Grace and INTO "self saving" Legalism = heresy.

    -----------------

    I remember when i was water baptized.
    Its been some years ago now.
    I had been saved by faith = God through the Blood of Jesus, 12 yrs before i was dunked.
    The small church i was working in didn't have a Baptistry, so we borrowed one that belonged to a Charismatic membership that was just down the road.
    Their Pentecostal Pastor dunked me, and when i came out of the water, one of the attending Charismatic helpers said to me...>"there go your sins" "all washed away in that water".
    And honestly i had to bite my tongue and not say...."what are you talking about nut-bar......as ALL MY SIN'S ARE ON JESUS 200O YRS AGO...HIS BLOOD WASHED THEM AWAY, not the city water system"..
    But, i refrained and smiled, dripping, and thanked them..... and was so happy to get away from this type of Cross Rejecting ignorance.

    So where are you, Reader?
    Are you in the process of falling from Grace?
    Have you been convinced by some mind blinded Pastor or Church Leader or family member that you have a "to do" list that you must maintain to keep yourself Saved,? Or are you rather, someone who has understood that the Same Blood of Jesus, and the Same "finished work of Jesus on the Cross" is the ONLY SALVATION that God offers or accepts on your behalf to save you and = Keep you saved. Philippians 1:6

    Have you been able to understand the substitutionary DEATH that Jesus provided for you, so that God's Judgment for your lifetime of sin will never find you once you Die or are Raptured?
    Have you understood that the reason you will meet God as Father and not as eternal Judge is because of what CHRIST has accomplished for you on the Cross 2000 Yrs ago, including His death and resurrection?
    Have you understood this?
    Have you been taught this???
    Have you maintained your complete faith in the Living Christ who is your Salvation?
    Are you daily RESTING in God's Grace, understanding that Peace with God is accomplished for you for all eternity by the Holy One who has Himself on the Cross earned your Salvation for you?
    Are you able to see this as God's GIFT to you, that you can't earn, and you can't keep by your silly self effort?
    Do you SEE?

    Listen..... = "prove yourself that you be IN THE FAITH"< lest you fall from Grace and into self righteous SELF SAVING Heresy.

    Listen Saint, the Grace of God, to exit there....IS the Mind of Christ.......and this is not normal regarding our human understanding.
    You have to willfully and intentionally maintain your complete faith that God has completed your Salvation as His GIFT, and you have it always....
    .= or you will end up lost in Legalism.

    A large part of "working out your Salvation" is to keep your mind and faith IN Christ and not let this get away from you, as its our nature to want to try to save ourselves, which is to fall from Grace.
    You have to resist the Devil's temptation to fall away from God's Grace within your belief system.
    You have to STAND against this, and resist what comes "naturally" to your mind and heart.

    God help you to resist your own flesh.... and God help you to return to His Grace, within your Faith, if you have fallen from His Grace = so that this return to Right Believing allows you to rest from ALL self effort to be Accepted and Kept by God.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
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  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Romans 6 Living Bible (TLB)

    Dead to Sin, Alive to God


    1 Well then, shall we keep on sinning so that God can keep on showing us more and more kindness and forgiveness?

    2-3 Of course not! Should we keep on sinning when we don’t have to? For sin’s power over us was broken when we became Christians and were baptized to become a part of Jesus Christ; through his death the power of your sinful nature was shattered. 4 Your old sin-loving nature was buried with him by baptism when he died; and when God the Father, with glorious power, brought him back to life again, you were given his wonderful new life to enjoy.

    5 For you have become a part of him, and so you died with him, so to speak, when he died;a]">[a] and now you share his new life and shall rise as he did. 6 Your old evil desires were nailed to the cross with him; that part of you that loves to sin was crushed and fatally wounded, so that your sin-loving body is no longer under sin’s control, no longer needs to be a slave to sin; 7 for when you are deadened to sin you are freed from all its allure and its power over you. 8 And since your old sin-loving nature “died” with Christ, we know that you will share his new life. 9 Christ rose from the dead and will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 He died once for all to end sin’s power, but now he lives forever in unbroken fellowship with God. 11 So look upon your old sin nature as dead and unresponsive to sin, and instead be alive to God, alert to him, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    12 Do not let sin control your puny body any longer; do not give in to its sinful desires. 13 Do not let any part of your bodies become tools of wickedness, to be used for sinning; but give yourselves completely to God—every part of you—for you are back from death and you want to be tools in the hands of God, to be used for his good purposes. 14 Sin need never again be your master,b]">[b] for now you are no longer tied to the law where sin enslaves you, but you are free under God’s favor and mercy.

    From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

    15 Does this mean that now we can go ahead and sin and not worry about it? (For our salvation does not depend on keeping the law but on receiving God’s grace!) Of course not!

    16 Don’t you realize that you can choose your own master? You can choose sin (with death) or else obedience (with acquittal). The one to whom you offer yourself—he will take you and be your master, and you will be his slave. 17 Thank God that though you once chose to be slaves of sin, now you have obeyed with all your heart the teaching to which God has committed you. 18 And now you are free from your old master, sin; and you have become slaves to your new master, righteousness.

    19 I speak this way, using the illustration of slaves and masters, because it is easy to understand: just as you used to be slaves to all kinds of sin, so now you must let yourselves be slaves to all that is right and holy.

    20 In those days when you were slaves of sin you didn’t bother much with goodness. 21 And what was the result? Evidently not good, since you are ashamed now even to think about those things you used to do, for all of them end in eternal doom. 22 But now you are free from the power of sin and are slaves of God, and his benefits to you include holiness and everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    2 Peter 2:
    Depravity of False Teachers
    12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

    17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

    Deceptions of False Teachers
    18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  3. TLHKAJ

    TLHKAJ Well-Known Member

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    My husband and I were part if a church for over 10 years that is very legalistic. It's very subtle how they do it, but you end up fearing you did something and then God would be so angry, you lost your salvation, and that He'll strike you dead and send you to hell. They called themselves "the Amazing Grace Foundation" but they preach grace, and their actions proved the exact opposite.

    God began teaching my heart and opening my eyes to this "backwards gospel" we were being taught. I pulled my children out of their parochial school and stopped attending ...which by their standards meant we were going to hell. This fear drove my husband to fear-driven anger...even rage ...which was expressed toward me and our children. He was fearful of these men, and their "god." It was a very tumultuous several years of walking on eggshells and never knowing what would set him off.

    Here's the thing. God sent His only begotten Son so that we may believe on Him and have everlasting life. It is by grace we are saved, and not of works. We cannot and must not boast in our own works or ability to "be good" ...then our trust shifts from Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross, onto self. And we know that our righteousness is as filthy rags! Because of our faith in Christ, we are clothed in HIS righteousness! That is where our trust and faith is.....wow, and our gratitude!!

    He loved us first ...and when we receive that love, our response is to love Him back. At our surrender, He works in us "to will and to do" His good will. He transforms our inner being so that the things we would find difficult in the past, are now doable (like loving our enemies, or forgiving others, etc) ...because we can do all things ...only ...through Christ who strengthens us! It's all Him ...what a wonderful gift we've been given!

    We aren't saved by works ...and yet, works will follow those who have trusted in Him and received His love. It's the fruit ...the product ...of a life who loves Him. :) Just beware that you do not trust that it's our own goodness that earns our salvation lest we be like those who stand before Him reciting all their good works, and He says, "Depart from me you who work iniquity. I never knew you." Wow!! Let's not get our eyes on what we've done or how "good" we are. May we always keep our haze on Him and know that HE DID IT ALL....He alone is our Savior, Lord, Master and King! He is our redemption, our life, our righteousness. Now.....just love Him. ❤ See what happens when we just ....love Him. :)

    John 15 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ⁹ As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. ¹⁰ If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    1 John 2 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ³ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. ⁴ He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ⁵ But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ⁶ He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    1 John 3 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ²² And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. ²³ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. ²⁴ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    1 John 5 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹ Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. ² By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. ³ For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    For the heart that has believed on Christ, keeping His commandments is not a heavy burden, but a natural result from a heart that abides in His love. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Believing faith is accompanied by love which then enables us to flow in "good works" ...those good works will glorify our Father in Heaven, but those works did not save us. They are are sort of litmus test of whether we have come to the cross and saw what filthy dirty rags we were clothed in, and gratefully exchanged them for new clothes that can never be dirtied because it is His blood that purchased them.

    I love the old McKameys southern gospel song that says, "When He sees me, He sees the blood of the Lamb. He sees me as worthy, and not as I am. He views me in garments as white as the snow. For the Lamb of God is worthy, and He washed me, this I know!" :)



    John 13 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ³⁴ A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. ³⁵ By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  4. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Hi T.
    Some church's can really do some damage. I am glad you and your family got out of there!
     
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  5. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is of the Lord period. He saves us and keeps us saved.

    James 1:18
    He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

    John 1:13
    children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

    1 Peter 1:3
    Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Titus 3:5-8
    He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Colossians 2:13
    When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ.

    Philippians 1:6
    And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns

    1 Corinthians 1:8
    He will sustain you to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Philippians 1:29
    "For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake."

    2 Timothy 1:9
    who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

    1 Peter 1:3
    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

    God saves us, keeps us saved and it is a gift from Him even granting us the faith which saves.

    As Paul says: what do you have that you did not receive ?

    Its all by His Mercy and Grace.

    I would hate to be the person who stands before God and thinks he had something to do with his own salvation. The Glory is all Gods in Salvation.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  6. TLHKAJ

    TLHKAJ Well-Known Member

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    Oh my goodness, me too, sister! It was a horrible place and I never fit in there...as much (in the beginning) as I tried and thought I just wasn't "good enough." But deep down, I knew ...I didn't want that sort of "love" that they had. I couldn't stomach turning my babies over into a nursery ...or else making them "behave" in a 3 hour long church service. This meant ...babies couldn't cry (as infants/newborns do when they are hungry, dirty, have a pain, or just need to be close to mama). If they did, parents were taught to "break their will" ...so dads who didn't "spare the rod" (but beat their children), and moms who pinched their little 2 or 3 month old baby when they cried in a service and then took them out and spanked them ...came back in under 15 minutes with a silent baby, sucking a bottle filled with water (no milk) .....were praised for being "godly parents." No ...what they just accomplished was to send a message to that baby that they weren't to make their needs known and their cries aren't heard....does God our Father do that?? Nope!

    The scripture, "Forsake not the assembling..." was used to make sure we never missed a service, a meeting, an event, etc ....and there was one or the other at least 4 or 5 days a week without fail (usually 5 to 7 days a week). Family took a backseat to being at a church service or meeting...work day....etc, etc. This was perfect for keeping us there so that we and our children could be continually indoctrinated. And then of course, you never were to speak about or acknowledge that they were wrong about something ...because "touching God's anointed" meant you'd lost your salvation and God would strike you dead. You were expected to just be silent and follow ...no questions asked.

    Those are just a few examples ...but there was a lot more to that place and what they were.
     
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
     
  8. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I'm very happy that you escaped such false teachers who burden their followers with yoke of legalism. Its the same thing the Pharisees did in Jesus day which He condemns in Matthew 23.
     
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  9. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Active Member

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    What church was this? Can you link me to a website? It's just for my own curiosity, nothing else. I think 'church' as we now know it is dead and gone. I'm of the opinion that with the civil war brewing in America the true people of God are going to have to go underground into small meetings of saints far, far from the polluted and corrupt leadership of our various business oriented denominations.
     
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  10. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Ferris Bueller Acts 2.42 represents basically collective inward and spiritual exercises in any case, and is not about buildings or organized denominations.
     
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  11. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is where things are headed and the pastor at my church sees this coming down the road sooner rather than later. The good thing in our congregation is small home groups meeting weekly has always been a top priority. Our county is once again in the purple so restrictions are in full force. We have a huge outside place to meet(amphitheater) but not in the winter. We have outdoor services in the later spring - early fall.
     
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  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    How many times are you going to keep posting your rants against "legalists"? Ever since you came to this forum you have being saying the same old thing, but also presenting false teachings. So who is worse, a legalist or a false teacher?

    Therefore let's see some actual quotes from these so-called "legalists" to prove that you actually have a point. And we need to be able to go to the primary sources to confirm that you are quoting accurately.
     
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  13. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    oh wow 2000 posts on the same topic I was unaware of that. I know anyone who disagrees with anything he/she posts is automatically labeled as a heretic/false teacher/ lost/condemned etc.....
     
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you check out some of that poster's false teachings and then make your comments?

    Here's a doozy: "Sin is only available as a fact and a title to someone who is "under the law"."

    Does that make any biblical sense?
     
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  15. TLHKAJ

    TLHKAJ Well-Known Member

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    They have no website. They did at one time. But they are very secretive, although they have their hands in many things (businesses, properties, government organizations, medical, law enforcement, radio communications, "ministries", etc).
     
  16. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @TLHKAJ In contrast with desiring truth in the inward parts, right? (Psalm 51.6)

    [​IMG]pinterest
     
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  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Right. God calls you a saint, even though you act like a sinner, because the sins you commit are covered and no longer sins. False!
     
  18. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    That's a really good discussion piece, and I agree with the sentiment. It *is* Christ's death on the cross that saved us--nothing else. Of course, we do have to accept his salvation. So it's a semantical problem for some people to say my accepting Christ as Savior is what "saves me." Yes, what saves me is accepting that Christ did it *for me,* and yes, it is necessary to accept that grace!

    I prefer not to get wrapped up in the word "works." Words mean what they mean in context. We get into trouble when we try to apply "works" the same way in all circumstances. We cannot, for example, apply trying to "work for salvation" to the work of receiving Christ--not the same thing! The "work" of receiving Christ as Savior is *not* a work in the sense of trying to earn our salvation. Rather, it is just the choice to accept that my salvation comes through the work of Christ alone.

    The one thing I would point out, with respect to your water baptism, was that the brother who told you your sins were forgiven in the act of baptism was not saying, I think, that the act of water baptism saved you, but rather, that your accepting Christ saved you. The baptismal waters symbolized the reality that Christ washed your sins away when you accepted his death on your behalf.

    What he failed to recognize is that you had accepted Christ well before that moment in time in which you got water baptized. So technically, Christ saved you 2000 years ago when he died on the cross. And this got applied to our life when you accepted it--not when you got water baptized. Otherwise, great post!
     
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  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I see Baptism as the flood of Noah's day.
    The world/flesh all living things, plunged under water and flooded and died,
    thus cleansing the world/flesh from all sin.
    Risen anew. a new world. a new life..
    time to retill the soil and get growing :)

    in a nutshell.
    That's how I see it.
    HUGS
     
  20. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
     
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