Denominations that teach only they will be saved

[Wrangler]

Bible versus Bible.
Who will win? - LOL
(and who will lose?)

The Bible has a narrative, a story that proceeds from beginning, middle to end. Supposing an earlier aspect of the story (Jeremiah) supercedes a later development in the story (Ezekiel) cannot withstand scrutiny. Doing so is a case study in rationalizing, like pointing to who 1st scored in a game as determinant of who won while disregarding the certain knowledge of the score of the game at the end.

 

[Wrangler]

“US” is subjective.

Yet, you are claiming it is objective in that our heart cannot be trusted per Jeremiah. You're disregarding Ezekiel 36:26 for no reason.

 

[Wrangler]

I responded to your statement….that God gives “US” a new heart.

A response that did not answer the question.

That is TRUE, “WHEN” “US” is defined by only those who give their bodily life unto death for their heartful true believe IN the Lord God.

And that is completely in error. You are adding this condition that is NOT part of Ezekiel 36:26. As applied to Romans 2:

7 Whoever has labored diligently and patiently to do what is right—seeking glory, honor, and immortality—God will grant him endless joy in life eternal. ​

​

13 Here’s my point: just because a person hears the law read or recited does not mean he is right before the one True God; it is following the law that makes one right, not just hearing it. 14-15 For instance, some outsiders who are not required to follow the law often live quite naturally by its teachings. Even though the law wasn’t given to them, in themselves they have the law. Here’s the thing: their lives demonstrate that God has inscribed the law’s teachings on their hearts. On judgment day, their consciences will testify for them, and their thoughts will both accuse and defend them.​

​

Notice again how none of this is conditional? It is to God's glory that he has given us a new heart, where our own conscience will testify for us. It is not our glory and our sacrifice of giving our lives.

 

[St. SteVen]

The CAVEAT IS: Any man WHO DOES SO CHOOSE to heartfully commit unto God…
THEN it is by, through, of Gods POWER, He WILL Keep that mans LOVE for God, in tact, and constant, forever.

Doesn't this assume that everyone had, or will have a choice?
I don't think that is true.

 

[St. SteVen]

God IS JUST…everyone shall receive what THEY choose to “commit” to.

Obviously, some are noncommittal.

 

[face2face]

For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. John 17:2

While the limit to that number of people is by God... “Many called… few chosen” & Matt 20:16 reveals the number is conditioned
by men & women's response. There is an important principle here relating to God's choosing.

Jesus is saying that His Father calls and Jesus rejects none of his Father’s choice John 6:37, 44.

“All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.” “However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.”

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

F2F

 

[Taken]

A response that did not answer the question.

And that is completely in error. You are adding this condition that is NOT part of Ezekiel 36:26. As applied to Romans 2:

7 Whoever has labored diligently and patiently to do what is right—seeking glory, honor, and immortality—God will grant him endless joy in life eternal. ​

​

13 Here’s my point: just because a person hears the law read or recited does not mean he is right before the one True God; it is following the law that makes one right, not just hearing it. 14-15 For instance, some outsiders who are not required to follow the law often live quite naturally by its teachings. Even though the law wasn’t given to them, in themselves they have the law. Here’s the thing: their lives demonstrate that God has inscribed the law’s teachings on their hearts. On judgment day, their consciences will testify for them, and their thoughts will both accuse and defend them.​

​

Notice again how none of this is conditional? It is to God's glory that he has given us a new heart, where our own conscience will testify for us. It is not our glory and our sacrifice of giving our lives.

Every human IS the life of man and must, will Die, God requires it.

Individuals can DIE quick without expectation or know they are suffering through a life threatening disease…and at any time a man can Give his bodily life unto The Lord God…by the mans true word, crucified with Christ, Martyrdom, unconverted Heartful Belief…and that man Shall be saved.
True Belief IS a Condition!

Not sure what your issue is.

 

[Taken]

Obviously, some are noncommittal.

Test everything. God Himself does so. When a man “claims/testifies to lay down his life for his Belief in God”…God searches their hearts thoughts IF that be true. IF that be True, God shall at the time of their death…save their soul, which sanctifies them (ie sets them apart) and justifies them to be bodily raised in glory.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[St. SteVen]

“All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.” “However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.”

I just noticed something interesting in that scripture that I had not taken note of prior.
The word "However". (at the beginning of the second sentence)
Who is being referred to in the second sentence?

"However", is defined as:
Nevertheless, nonetheless, even so... (that being the case) Notwithstanding, aside from that...

John 12:32 NIV
And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Obviously, some are noncommittal.

Test everything. God Himself does so. When a man “claims/testifies to lay down his life for his Belief in God”…God searches their hearts thoughts IF that be true. IF that be True, God shall at the time of their death…save their soul, which sanctifies them (ie sets them apart) and justifies them to be bodily raised in glory.

Are you claiming that none are noncommittal?
Countless billions have gone, and will go, to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.
What is the current population of China? (1.4 billion)

 

[face2face]

I just noticed something interesting in that scripture that I had not taken note of prior.
The word "However". (at the beginning of the second sentence)
Who is being referred to in the second sentence?

"However", is defined as:
Nevertheless, nonetheless, even so... (that being the case) Notwithstanding, aside from that...

John 12:32 NIV
And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Interesting.

Did you see the difference between driven away compared to reject?

Adam and Eve were driven away from the Garden but not rejected.
Cain was drawn in by God though he rejected God's mercy and was therefore rejected from salvation.

In relation to your John 12:32 quote the reference to "all people" implies all kinds (classes, or races) of men.

For me knowing the above example "all" means "without distinction" rather than "without exception"

Hebrews 2:9
9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

In other words his sacrific was representative of all flesh.

Romans 10:13
for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

John 1:7
He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

The intention is for all to believe but not all will be drawn into Christ and his sin covering name

John 1:9
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.

Light given but not accepted and received!

John 3:26
26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

Literally not "everyone" - the Word often uses exaggeration to express a point.

John 5:28
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
Not all people just those who are found to be in him by faith.

John 8:2
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them.

Again not literally.

John 13:35
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Again, not literal

I could on and on but I'm sure you get the point.

F2F

 

[face2face]

St. SteVen said:
Countless billions have gone, and will go, to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.
What is the current population of China? (1.4 billion)

Correct. God's plan has never been to save all people, or even enlighten all people (literally speaking)...though He would desire that, He understands its not possible. Of all the people who have lived in the earth throughout time, there is only been one Abraham; but the calling to have the Faith of Abraham will be pursued by only a few comparatively speaking in the earth. There has only been one Christ and only a few will find him and even fewer will base their lives on him.

It's called the cost of Creation argument; one I have found more than convincing.

Steven, take this image



What is the cost?
Why wouldn't God intervene?

Think about these Laws and explain the spirit behind them?

•A compulsory holiday each week, for all people, servants, and animals (Exodus 20:10, Deuteronomy 5:14)

• Animals used commercially are to be cared for and not overburdened or exploited (Exodus 23:5, Deuteronomy 25:4)

• The environment not to be harmed when battles are fought (Deuteronomy 20:19)

• The fields to be left unfarmed one year of every seven (Exodus 23:10-11, Leviticus 25:3-7)

Why wouldn't humanity access these laws and apply them to each of their nations?
Explain how and why salvation is based on the same principle?

F2F

 

[face2face]

St. SteVen said:
Countless billions have gone, and will go, to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.

Also...there is no afterlife - man is no different to the beasts of the field...as one dies so dies the other.

 

[Wrangler]

Every human IS the life of man and must, will Die, God requires it.

Individuals can DIE quick without expectation or know they are suffering through a life threatening disease…and at any time a man can Give his bodily life unto The Lord God…by the mans true word, crucified with Christ, Martyrdom, unconverted Heartful Belief…and that man Shall be saved.
True Belief IS a Condition!

You have a habit of going through unexpected detours.

Not sure what your issue is.

Ezekiel 36:26 says we have a heart we can trust because God gave us a new heart that has his laws written on it, which supercedes Jeremiah observation of untrustworthy hearts at the time.

 

[Taken]

St. SteVen said:
Obviously, some are noncommittal.

Are you claiming that none are noncommittal?

No.

Countless billions have gone, and will go, to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.

What is the current population of China? (1.4 billion)

Ancient, Historical, Modern, Present population count is mans guesswork’s.

God is ALL-KNOWING.
Before God forms a man, God knows that man.
Before a man is naturally born, God knows that man.
Before a man hears, knows, picks, chooses, does as he wills, God knows what that man shall know, pick, choose, do….AND has prepared a PLACE for that man.

Mankind has a similar likeness. Man knows IF he engages in a sexual encounter with a Female, there is a likelihood of a pregnancy.
Man knows within a short time frame IF a pregnancy has occurred. Man prepares a PLACE for that birth expectation. Mankind is keen on expectation of things that child will pick, choose, do, BEFORE the child knows.

God reveals the “Consequences” for a mans Choices.
Again mankind is similar, revealing the “Consequences” for a man’s/child’s “Consequences” of his choices…be they a favorable or unfavorable “Consequence”.

The WHOLE of a mans “natural” life is “practice” and “preparation” for an Eternal life WITH God, or Ceasing of life and forever without God.

Life of a human, IS his Blood.
Life of all souls, IS Gods Breath.
Life of a spirit, IS Gods Power.

Blood life, SHALL cease.
Soul life, MAY or MAY not remain in a soul.
Spirit life, SHALL remain in a spirit.

Who, What, Why, Where a living or dead life goes (the place) for eternity is not a mystery.
The mystery to mankind is When.

Those individuals “incapable” of “knowing” (for example; oppressed, babes, learning challenges, etc.) does not determine their FINAL Consequence.
God KNOWS their true hearts thoughts and responds accordingly.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

Every human IS the life of man and must, will Die, God requires it.

Individuals can DIE quick without expectation or know they are suffering through a life threatening disease…and at any time a man can Give his bodily life unto The Lord God…by the mans true word, crucified with Christ, Martyrdom, unconverted Heartful Belief…and that man Shall be saved.
True Belief IS a Condition!

Not sure what your issue is.

And now a word . If one claims to believe in God and yet believes not the testimony GOD gave of HIS SON ,
then their belief IS NOT IN GOD .
Remember . GOD said ABRHAM BELIEVED .
many years later when speaking to the unbelieving jews , CHRIST JESUS
brought that reminder to light again .
This did abraham NOT DO . THEY did not believe JESUS CHRIST . you can bet abraham would have .
GOD SAID ABRAHAM BELIEVED . And now a word . IF JESUS SAID , it means GOD SAID .
Exactly taken . And it was counted to abraham for righteousness .
So how you think anyone is gonna be made or counted righteous . GOTTA BELEIVE JESUS CHRIST .
There is no other plan of salvation , no other way to be JUSTIFIED , made righteous , OR BE SAVED .
Now go ahead taken , LIFT THOSE HANDS AND PRAISE THE GLORIOUS LORD

 

[amigo de christo]

St. SteVen said:
Obviously, some are noncommittal.

Are you claiming that none are noncommittal?
Countless billions have gone, and will go, to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.
What is the current population of China? (1.4 billion)

Let no man or woman be taken or shaken by this constant reminder of his .
Any man , any woman who has heard the gospel and yet denies it , will face the second death .
You have heard the gospel , but you dont seem to be big on preaching it at all
rather on this other lovespel of men which wont be saving any .
YOU , thus , will be held accountable . My advice is
get busy like the true church did , who preached the dire necessity to believe on Christ .
You will be held accountable . So lets preach JESUS CHRIST .
Any who hears and believeth not WILL BE DAMNED .

 

[amigo de christo]

No.


Ancient, Historical, Modern, Present population count is mans guesswork’s.

God is ALL-KNOWING.
Before God forms a man, God knows that man.
Before a man is naturally born, God knows that man.
Before a man hears, knows, picks, chooses, does as he wills, God knows what that man shall know, pick, choose, do….AND has prepared a PLACE for that man.

Mankind has a similar likeness. Man knows IF he engages in a sexual encounter with a Female, there is a likelihood of a pregnancy.
Man knows within a short time frame IF a pregnancy has occurred. Man prepares a PLACE for that birth expectation. Mankind is keen on expectation of things that child will pick, choose, do, BEFORE the child knows.

God reveals the “Consequences” for a mans Choices.
Again mankind is similar, revealing the “Consequences” for a man’s/child’s “Consequences” of his choices…be they a favorable or unfavorable “Consequence”.

The WHOLE of a mans “natural” life is “practice” and “preparation” for an Eternal life WITH God, or Ceasing of life and forever without God.

Life of a human, IS his Blood.
Life of all souls, IS Gods Breath.
Life of a spirit, IS Gods Power.

Blood life, SHALL cease.
Soul life, MAY or MAY not remain in a soul.
Spirit life, SHALL remain in a spirit.

Who, What, Why, Where a living or dead life goes (the place) for eternity is not a mystery.
The mystery to mankind is When.

Those individuals “incapable” of “knowing” (for example; oppressed, babes, learning challenges, etc.) does not determine their FINAL Consequence.
God KNOWS their true hearts thoughts and responds accordingly.

God Bless,
Taken

The reason they keep bringing this up is to help lead people into the other gospel to unite all religoins .
Taken , JESUS said HE would not even return , TILL the gospel had been preached in all nations .
Sounds to me like everyone at least had a chance to hear it .
Dont let this other man fool or decieve you . THEY always bring that what about the ones who never heard stuff up .
This is about an agenda taken . I have seen them at work for many years . THEY come to try and plant doubt
they come in because of an agenda . they plant these doubts upon the double minded
and it works . and in time more and more even stop seeing the dire need to believe on Christ
and what they start believing , in time , IS that EVERYONE , EVERY RELIGOIN is fine , well so long as it has it some lovey do
and hug thy neighbor in it . Be encouraged .
REMEMBER HOW JESUS preached and taught . Remember how paul , peter , john and others preached and talked .
GET refreshed in the bible . WE GONNA PREACH JESUS CHRIST and offer up NO FALSE HOPES for mankind .

 

[Taken]

You have a habit of going through unexpected detours.

Ezekiel 36:26 says we have a heart we can trust because God gave us a new heart that has his laws written on it, which supercedes Jeremiah observation of untrustworthy hearts at the time.

Can you trust your heart? Ezekiel 36:26 says God gave us a new heart. Who is "us" in the reference? I believe it is everyone, even those referenced in Romans 2.

Wrangler…you posted ^^ that comment.
You believe God has given EVERYONE a new heart.

I disagree, EVERYONE has or shall receive a NEW HEART.

I believe the individual WHO has or SHALL receive a NEW HEART is EXPRESSLY and EXCLUSIVELY “us” / “we”…..WHO willingly lay down their own human mankind BLOOD LIFE unto Death, FOR their Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.

You quoting and referencing Scripture speaking of “us”/‘we”, as being “everyone”, is erroneous.
ALL humans who have EVER been born, WILL NOT lay down their natural blood lives for Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.

 

[Taken]

Obviously, some are noncommittal.

Agree. Many will not open their mouths, testify of their Belief in their heart…
No matter, IF they Believe in their heart…they shall be saved at the TIME OF their physical Death.

A man opening his mouth (while alive in his flesh) and testifying of his true heartful belief….SHALL be SAVED AT THAT TIME, before his physical death. (They have made a commitment to be bodily Crucified THEN with Jesus’ Crucified body.)

It’s a Spiritual Offering from a Spirit God…that a living man willing to give his bodily life unto death FOR God, is thereafter called “IN” Christ Jesus, which means that “natural living man”, having vowed his body unto Death FOR God, thereafter IS alive IN Christ Jesus’ risen body.

God Bless,
Taken