Did God Forsake Jesus?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I think you explained it excellently. Our translators actually DID deliberately write it so that English speakers would assume that Jesus became scared and wanted to get out of doing the very thing He same to Earth to do. I fully believe that God NEVER turned His back on Jesus...… not even for a moment.

God be with you and bless you

 

[Stranger]

I think you explained it excellently. Our translators actually DID deliberately write it so that English speakers would assume that Jesus became scared and wanted to get out of doing the very thing He same to Earth to do. I fully believe that God NEVER turned His back on Jesus...… not even for a moment.

So, just blot it out of Scripture as it goes against what you believe. You will get great approval here.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

So, just blot it out of Scripture as it goes against what you believe. You will get great approval here.

Stranger

No, you do something you may not be used to doing... you find out the actual facts of the original meaning.

 

[Nancy]

Yes Stranger, I agree. I also agree (with an earlier post of yours) that Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming for the "His sweat as it were... drops of blood" in Gethsemane while praying so fervently...He knew He would, for the 1st time ever, be separated from the Father. Just MHO.
-nancy

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the physical torture He knew was coming for the "His sweat as it were... drops of blood" in Gethsemane

Luke 22:44 "being in agony" = Mark 14:34 "my SOUL is exceedingly sorrowful unto death" = Matthew 26:37, "He began to be sorrowful and very heavy ... my SOUL is exceeding sorrowful even unto death".

The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~separation from God~' by God, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man.

Matthew 26:
38 Περίλυπός ἐστιν ἡ ψυχή μου ἕως θανάτου
My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death

προσευχόμενος καὶ λέγων Πάτερ μου, εἰ δυνατόν ἐστιν,
and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible,

παρελθάτω (παρελθέτω) ἀπ’ ἐμοῦ τὸ ποτήριον τοῦτο·
let this cup come by me / at me pass.

πλὴν οὐχ ὡς ἐγὼ θέλω ἀλλ’ ὡς σύ.
nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Re:
παρελθάτω (παρελθέτω) ἀπ’ ἐμοῦ τὸ ποτήριον τοῦτο·
let this cup come by me / at me pass.

‘Apo’ – has more than just the meaning of ‘Direction’, ‘from’.

As in this place, ‘I’, Jesus, is the Reason Why He prays his Father to “let this cup come by me” or “let this cup pass / be passed at me”.

In other words, Jesus prayed, “Bring this cup on FOR Me”, or, “for My sake”, or, “ON ACCOUNT OF Me”.

Actually, because “the cup” is metaphorical, spiritual, metaphysical, it does not have the meaning of ‘from’ as for ‘direction’, '~away from me~', at all!

 

[epostle1]

God cannot turn His back on God, it's impossible. Jesus could not finish Psalm 22 because He was dying. Willie turned the light on with verse 24. BTW, Jesus spoke Aramaic from the cross, not Greek.

 

[Stranger]

No, you do something you may not be used to doing... you find out the actual facts of the original meaning.

How can you find out what the Bible is saying when you believe the translators intentionally corrupted the Scripture, as you said in #142? When you set yourself up as one who decides what Scriptures to believe and what ones not to believe, you in reality are just making Scriptures say what you want them to say.

So, when you come across a disagreement with someone about Scripture, what do you do? You say, you can't trust all that was written because the translators corrupted the Scripture. Gee, that's handy. Or you come across an apparent contradiction, you just blame the translators. Thereby removing in possibility of learning something from it later and finding out there is no contradiction.

You're no different than the Romanists who have added to the Scripture with their apocrypha and tradition.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Yes Stranger, I agree. I also agree (with an earlier post of yours) that Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming for the "His sweat as it were... drops of blood" in Gethsemane while praying so fervently...He knew He would, for the 1st time ever, be separated from the Father. Just MHO.
-nancy

And a right opinion it is.

Stranger

 

[Nancy]

GerhardEbersoehn said: "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~physical torture~' by man, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man."

This is what I wrote- "Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming..."
So, I never said the cause of His sweat was due to physical torture...pretty much the opposite,

I KNOW He was not afraid of what man could do to Him.
Have a nice day.

 

[Willie T]

How can you find out what the Bible is saying when you believe the translators intentionally corrupted the Scripture, as you said in #142? When you set yourself up as one who decides what Scriptures to believe and what ones not to believe, you in reality are just making Scriptures say what you want them to say.

So, when you come across a disagreement with someone about Scripture, what do you do? You say, you can't trust all that was written because the translators corrupted the Scripture. Gee, that's handy. Or you come across an apparent contradiction, you just blame the translators. Thereby removing in possibility of learning something from it later and finding out there is no contradiction.

You're no different than the Romanists who have added to the Scripture with their apocrypha and tradition.

Stranger

As I noted, You don't seem to be very familiar with doing this. But, we honestly should try to discover what things were like BEFORE all the multitude of translations became popular. It isn't easy, as Jesus, Himself, taught from a translation, but you really can find a lot more than if you never try.

 

[Stranger]

As I noted, You don't seem to be very familiar with doing this. But, we honestly should try to discover what things were like BEFORE all the multitude of translations became popular. It isn't easy, as Jesus, Himself, taught from a translation, but you really can find a lot more than if you never try.

Jesus didn't teach from a translation.

And Jesus considered the copies of the Old Testament that He would quote from as the Word of God.

You can find more if you want to make it up. Which is what you and others do.

And you are right, I am not familiar with doing that.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

Please tell us where the words Jesus quoted were written. In what documents?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You're no different than the Romanists who have added to the Scripture with their apocrypha and tradition.

Adding to Scripture with apocrypha and tradition is not the only way. In fact it only proves the far more successful way to add to Scripture MEANINGS FOREIGN TO ITS TRUTH through (incidental) incorrect and even (deliberate) false translation of Scripture itself!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GerhardEbersoehn said: "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~physical torture~' by man, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man."

This is what I wrote- "Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming..."
So, I never said the cause of His sweat was due to physical torture...pretty much the opposite,

I KNOW He was not afraid of what man could do to Him.
Have a nice day.

How good then, that we actually agree and say the same thing. Point is, "his flesh saw no corruption in death", OR, in DYING death. '~Recoiled~" Jesus for the blink of an eye, his sweat would have been as were it caused by and the result of '~physical torture~' by man.

Have a day heavy laden with thoughts on these things.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Every time I look at my Africanis puppy I see this beautiful picture of the white dove.
Nancy said: ↑

 

[Nancy]

Every time I look at my Africanis puppy I see this beautiful picture of the white dove.
Nancy said: ↑

I came upon this dove purely by accident and fell in love with it! I imagine the dove alighting on Jesus shoulder as God spoke from heaven at His baptism. That's my favorite "trinity" scripture.
God Bless you!
-nancy

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm surpized no one has mentioned. Galatians 3:13

I have understood this or rather the part of it from the law as God the Father making a commitment to himself that he will curse anyone, even his son, if they are hung from a pole.

When Jesus cried out it was due to the separation he felt. He likely never felt anything like it, always hearing from his Father.

This is the passage that is referenced in Gal 3 : 13.

Deuteronomy 21: 22 -23: - 22 "If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang{expose/display}(q) him on a tree, 23 his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, (r) so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God.

The Net Bible has the following foot note: -
Deut 21 : 23
q tn Heb "hung," but this could convey the wrong image in English (hanging with a rope as a means of execution). Cf. NCV "anyone whose body is displayed on a tree."
r sn The idea behind the phrase cursed by God seems to be not that the person was impaled because he was cursed but that to leave him exposed there was to invite the curse of God upon the whole land. Why this would be so is not clear, though the rabbinic idea that even a criminal is created in the image of God may give some clue (thus J. H. Tigay, Deuteronomy [JPSTC], 198). Paul cites this text (see Gal 3:13) to make the point that Christ, suspended from a cross, thereby took upon himself the curse associated with such a display of divine wrath and judgment (T. George, Galatians [NAC], 238-39).

The passage above can also be linked to this passage in Exodus 15: -

Exodus 15 : 22 - 26: - Bitter Waters Made Sweet
22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea; then they went out into the Wilderness of Shur. And they went three days in the wilderness and found no water. 23 Now when they came to Marah, they could not drink the waters of Marah, for they were bitter. Therefore the name of it was called Marah. 24 And the people complained against Moses, saying, "What shall we drink?" 25 So he cried out to the Lord, and the Lord showed him a tree. When he cast it into the waters, the waters were made sweet.

There He made a statute and an ordinance for them, and there He tested them, 26 and said, "If you diligently heed the voice of the Lord your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you."

 

[bbyrd009]

Please tell us where the words Jesus quoted were written. In what documents?

ah well he will just do his usual ignoring you jig here since you didn't tag him, and you aren't going on any truth-finding missions with any oracles today anyway i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

When Jesus cried out it was due to the separation he felt.

that is what tassel-toes will tell you, so by def it is warped imo. Christ is one with God, ergo there was no separation; "God, why have you forsaken Me" is because God does not require sacrifices for sins--ppl do. Hence why "No Son of Man may die for another's sins" is still valid, or, since that is OT, it is expressed NT also right, "no sinner may inherit the kingdom" etc

obv if Jesus covered your sins you would be able to keep sinning and inherit the kingdom, Catholic-style, sin now and ask forgiveness later, right

 

[lforrest]

tassel-toes?rd009, post: 409318, member: 7326"]that is what tassel-toes will tell you, so by def it is warped imo. Christ is one with God, ergo there was no separation; "God, why have you forsaken Me" is because God does not require sacrifices for sins--ppl do. Hence why "No Son of Man may die for another's sins" is still valid, or, since that is OT, it is expressed NT also right, "no sinner may inherit the kingdom" etc

obv if Jesus covered your sins you would be able to keep sinning and inherit the kingdom, Catholic-style, sin now and ask forgiveness later, right[/QUOTE]

tassel-toes? Some reference to religion?

God's oneness defies human understanding, such as when the Father had hidden the date of the end from the Son. So arguements based on the nature of God are moot, as we can't assume to know how that relationship works, its limitations, or lack thereof.