Did Speaking In Tongues Pass Away With The Early Church ?

[FHII]

Of course Peter knew what he was saying, I never said he didn’t. Peter did not speak all of the languages spoken by all the different people in town that day. Somewhere between Peter’s mouth and the hearer’s ear the language changed so that the hearer heard what was being said, exactly, right down to their very dialect. The word “unknown” is not in the text in Acts or 1 Cor 14:2, 4, 14, 19

The phrase "unknown tongues" is used in 1 Cor 14 in the KJV.

 

[jiggyfly]

Of course Peter knew what he was saying, I never said he didn’t. Peter did not speak all of the languages spoken by all the different people in town that day. Somewhere between Peter’s mouth and the hearer’s ear the language changed so that the hearer heard what was being said, exactly, right down to their very dialect. The word “unknown” is not in the text in Acts or 1 Cor 14:2, 4, 14, 19

Your right Tom, "unknown" is not part of the text in 1Cor. 14:2 but it is implied, just read a little further "for no man understandeth" making the tongue unknown.

 

[Foreigner]

This is hardly the limit of my experience in the presence of congregations who speak in tongues. Sorry Foreigner - just admit you underestimated my experience - it's okay, I am not going to treat you poorly for being humble - I think it is a good thing!!

-- The only reason I (rightfully) underestimate your experience is because, by your own admission, you do not share the Gospel (other than hoping that people will learn about it gazing at how you live.

You said Assembly of God High School. You were wrong.

 

[aspen]

-- The only reason I (rightfully) underestimate your experience is because, by your own admission, you do not share the Gospel (other than hoping that people will learn about it gazing at how you live.

You said Assembly of God High School. You were wrong.

Wow.....you really cannot do it, can you?

I said "I graduated from an Assembles of God HS"

Now, we both know what that word means.

 

[Foreigner]

Whoa!

Reread your original post.

You Aspen are 100% correct.

It is amazing how a simple word such as 'an' changes everything, but in this case it does.

I stand thoroughly and completely corrected.

And no, there is no hidden sarcasm in that admission.

 

[aspen]

Whoa!

Reread your original post.

You Aspen are 100% correct.

It is amazing how a simple word such as 'an' changes everything, but in this case it does.

I stand thoroughly and completely corrected.

And no, there is no hidden sarcasm in that admission.

Thank you, sincerely.

 

[Howie Gardner]

As in ancient Corinth there are tremendous abuses of the gift of tongues today. HOWEVER they cannot have ceased as such would mean that we now see Jesus face to face while Paul only saw through a glass darkly (see I Corinthians 13:8). That would mean our understanding was greater than his and would render the Bible as obsolete. So obviously the gifts have not ceased.

Please note: I made this same statement on John MacArthur's Strange Fire web site and a member of his own congregation chimed in saying "He's right. How could we possibly that that position?" But rather than give a reasonable response, MacArthur or his team chose to erase both of our posts and to ban me from posting any further.

 

[Helen]

As in ancient Corinth there are tremendous abuses of the gift of tongues today. HOWEVER they cannot have ceased as such would mean that we now see Jesus face to face while Paul only saw through a glass darkly (see I Corinthians 13:8). That would mean our understanding was greater than his and would render the Bible as obsolete. So obviously the gifts have not ceased.

Please note: I made this same statement on John MacArthur's Strange Fire web site and a member of his own congregation chimed in saying "He's right. How could we possibly that that position?" But rather than give a reasonable response, MacArthur or his team chose to erase both of our posts and to ban me from posting any further.

Welcome to the Site Howie.
Yes, totally agree with what you wrote.
A good way of expressing it.
Have a good day.

 

[epostle1]

Some people think that speaking in tongues passed away with the early Church, some people think it's of the devil, and some believe it is a gift from God to be used today to build up our most Holy faith. What do you think about it ?

Speaking in tongues made a comeback with the Classical Pentecostal Movement at the turn of the 19th century. There may be a scarce pre-existence before then, it's debatable. This was followed by the Neo-Pentecostal Movement, meaning charismatic prayer groups forming within churches without starting new denominations. This occurred in the '50's and ''60's. Then came the third stream; the Catholic Charismatic Movement, which began in the late '60's.
Tongues is not a badge of holiness. It should be used as a form of group praise and is very beautiful when properly done. It should not be contrived or forced. You either have the gift or you don't. It makes for excellent private prayer.

 

[bbyrd009]

imo recognizing that someone of a different mind or generation can be speaking perfectly intelligibly, while you need to ask for clarification and someone else does not, is a much better reflection of (lack of) "tongues" than the ritual kind.

 

[amadeus]

The problem many non-tongue talkers is that too many tongue talkers continue to babble as a baby babbles. This to me means the person got to the milk point with God and never proceeded to the meat. Consider the flesh and blood human baby who at the first only babbles, making noises that no one is able to understand. As the baby grows normally, it is likely a parent who first begins to understand words within the babble, such as "da da" or "ma ma". From then the child normally will advance to the ability to engage in a two way conversation with other people. No more babbling.

Note that the word, "babble" simply means to talk foolishly or in a confused manner even as "Babel" [the tower of] and "Babylon" [the city or empire of] speak of confusion or foolishness. What the baby says initially is certainly foolishness to the understanding of people who already communicate with language, but so long it is a baby that is OK. A 15 year old or a 50 year old who still babbles like a baby will likely catch people's attention.

Having said all of that, let me now say that I received the gift of tongues from God in 1976 at the age of 32 years. For a while it was certainly babble, but as I grew in the Lord and in His Word, my babble became a language, a means of communication between me and God. For many years now I have communicated with God in that "unknown" tongue on a daily basis whenever I am in prayer.

 

[epostle1]

Different Kinds of Tongues: A Biblical and Linguistic Defense

 

[amadeus]

Different Kinds of Tongues: A Biblical and Linguistic Defense

Sorry, unable to access the link provided.

 

[bbyrd009]

i notice how Speaking in Tongues has gone from an interaction between two people who normally would not be able to communicate verbally, as indicated in Scripture, to something that ppl do all alone now, or worse imo to some spurious "interpretation" like a little stage show, and of course the "how do we hear him in our own language?" is completely tossed now basically.

Paul talks about "gurgling and cooing like a baby," and imo most interpretations of "speaking in tongues" faithfully follow that principle.

 

[amadeus]

i notice how Speaking in Tongues has gone from an interaction between two people who normally would not be able to communicate verbally, as indicated in Scripture, to something that ppl do all alone now, or worse imo to some spurious "interpretation" like a little stage show, and of course the "how do we hear him in our own language?" is completely tossed now basically.

Paul talks about "gurgling and cooing like a baby," and imo most interpretations of "speaking in tongues" faithfully follow that principle.

"To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

On studying this before I found at least three types of tongues in scripture which might be included in "divers kinds of tongue" as per the verse I quoted above.

One is a translation type of tongue which is where a person is able to communicate with another who does not speak or understand the first person's natural language. This is one I see in Acts chapter two. Another came from my current pastor a native American. His father was a full-blooded Chippewa. When his father received the gift of the Holy Ghost, he spoke in a language unknown to him. The only languages he knew were English and Chippewa. Another person present at the service was an old Jew who was fluent in Hebrew and several other languages. He confirmed that the unknown language was Hebrew and he understood every word.

The second one is the one is my own gift which is a prayer language in which I communicate with God each day. When we really do not know what to say... or what we would choose to say would be wrong because our own fleshly ways would be in the way, this is one way that God helps us to accomplish it.

The third one is the message in tongues from God which always would require an interpreter into the common language of the people in attendance. My wife has manifested at different times both of these parts: giving the message in an unknown tongue and the interpretation of the message in an unknown tongue into the common language.

Without a doubt there are phonies around and there are lots of spiritual babies who should already be adults, but is it so unusual that men have failed to use at all or properly that which God has provided?

 

[DicipleofJesus]

Some people think that speaking in tongues passed away with the early Church, some people think it's of the devil, and some believe it is a gift from God to be used today to build up our most Holy faith. What do you think about it ?

Biblically it is one of the gifts of thy Holy Spirit designed to reach nonbelievers. Today certain believers believe it is a sign that one is a Believer.....a Christian. But I rather adhere to.it as a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[epostle1]

Sorry, unable to access the link provided.

Let's try something else:
Different Kinds of Tongues by Dave Armstrong ::

 

[amadeus]

Let's try something else:
Different Kinds of Tongues by Dave Armstrong ::

Thanks, that one worked. I skimmed it quickly and was favorably impressed. When I have more time I will try to read it more carefully. Thank you for your assistance.

 

[bbyrd009]

Without a doubt there are phonies around and there are lots of spiritual babies who should already be adults, but is it so unusual that men have failed to use at all or properly that which God has provided?

no, pretty normal, and i am not surprised at the confusion, just as ppl keeping milk on a shelf separate from meat does not surprise me, even if i understand that that is not the intention of Scripture at that concept now. So all i'll say here is that Tongues is alive and well, and "church" just is not the place to observe it, although a ritual of it might be conducted or observed. But, just like "women head covering," or 100 other spiritual concepts, the ritual/reminder has become the real thing, and the mundane application--the only one that matters--remains to be rediscovered.

And i don't mean to say by this that you or your wife's experiences were not genuine, more like the concept is so powerful that even the observance of the ritual will manifest signs, something like that. I did all that stuff, too, at one point. Imo there are 3 poorly delineated "tongues" in Scripture mostly to see who wants to argue about spiritual things that Scripture already assures us we do not know, and only see dimly.

It seems most ppl get to your understanding of tongues at some point--although i am guessing there--but natch since new seekers arrive every day, and old ones go from their previous belief to a better understanding, the debate appears to be frozen, like the faith/works one, or most of the other ones, about Original Sin, or Trinity, etc.

So, yesterday's Trinity Expounders are today's Trinity Deniers, and this is even admitted, "ya, i used to believe that too" etc, which is of course taken the wrong way, heard differently...which is essentially the common problem, i guess, huh

 

[bbyrd009]

see, what we are doing in the rituals is acting out how we misunderstand IRL, or how we are misunderstood. If one can accept it, Speaking in Tongues is perceived as a good thing, a "gift," when even Paul would counsel differently, and it is the "interpretation" that is important, for that "kind" of tongues--which equates to someone saying something you cannot understand--or, better, it is the fact that "everyone can hear in their own tongue"--denoting someone who has learned how to speak another person's "language."

and these are powerful, even life altering skills, that few ppl ever master, i'm 55 and i still do not have a clue, but some ppl have a gift for it, obviously. But of course these cannot be presented that way, or they will just be disregarded, like we currently pretty much disregard "life, more abundantly" in favor of "i can't wait to die to go to heaven and be with Jesus, and prolly Spuds McKenzie too, in that Eternal Party in the Sky," only say it with Religious Reverence, toss some thee's and thou's in there somewhere lol.