Did The Bible Or The Papacy Transfer The Sabbath Rest To Sunday?

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Trekson

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That's not a future object - it's a present state of mind Paul is exhorting us to obtain/retain.

You need to read it again. Here's the CEV:
10 On that day (a future day) God’s people will (future tense) rest from their work, just as God rested from his work.

11 We should do our best to enter that place of rest, so that none of us will disobey and miss going there (When we die), as they did.
 

BreadOfLife

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Our papal apologist friend Bread Of Life has insisted that the papacy finds Biblical support for it having "changed" the Biblical Sabbath from the 7th day of the week to the 1st day of the week.

Notice that the following statement regarding the authenticity of Sunday sacredness contains no references to any Biblical texts supporting a change in Sabbath sacredness, but only to that of the presumed authority of the church:

"Sunday – fulfillment of the Sabbath. Sunday is expressly distinguished from the Sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the Sabbath...

"The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ...

"In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church’s holy days as legal holidays."
-- The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 2, Article 3 (1994)

Here is another which claims the change was the doing of the Roman Catholic Church alone:

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." -- Cardinal James Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (Ayers Publishing, 1978): 108​

Catholicism agrees that the Sabbath is exactly what the Bible claims it is - the 7th day of the week - and that the change was theirs, not God's:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why Do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
-- The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, 1957
Catholicism claims that it - not Scripture - is responsible for the change by its presumed authority:
Question: Have you any other way of proving the Church has power to institute festivals of precept (change the Sabbath)?

Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the 1st day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the 7th day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
-- Stephen Keenan, Catholic—Doctrinal Catechism 3rd Edition: 174​

This statement speaks to Protestants everywhere about which day they should be observing as a day of rest and communion with God:

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day by God is Saturday. In keeping the Sunday, they are following a law of the Catholic Church." -- Chancellor Albert Smith for Cardinal of Baltimore Archdiocese, letter dated February 10, 1920

Further statements offering indisputable clarity on this issue make absolutely clear to us what the official papal position is, which should leave no question as to what that is, and any papist - the presence of which should immediately cause suspicion - who enters CB and attempts to teach otherwise should stand exposed as a fraud (or a Jesuit, the order of whom swears that deceit is not only acceptable, but commendable, in the advancement in the cause of the papacy, which is the destruction of Protestantism).

"Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope." -- Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):​


"Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church." -- Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day, Louis Gaston Segur (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213​

"The Catholic Church, for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday...

"The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, "Seventh-day Adventists."
-- The Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1893​

"It was the holy Catholic Church that changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday, the 1st day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodicea, AD 364, anathematized those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the 7th day under penalty of anathema." -- Catholic Priest T. Enright, CSSR, Kansas City, MO​

If the papacy believes all these statements are heretical, why weren't any of these men burned at the stake or beheaded - as was the fate of so many "heretic" Protestants?

"I have repeatedly offered $1000 to any one who can furnish any proof from the Bible that Sunday is the day we are bound to keep...The Bible says, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy,” but the Catholic Church says, “No, keep the first day of the week,” and the whole world bows in obedience." -- Catholic Priest T. Enright, CSSR, lecture at Hartford, KS, Feb 18, 1884​

"The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons…are all of pagan origin and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." -- Cardinal John Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, (London: Basil Montague Pickering, 1878): 373​

"The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of the Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." -- Catholic Record (September 1, 1923)​

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act…And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." -- Letter from C.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons on October 28, 1895​

"Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church." -- American Catholic Quarterly Review (January 1883)

"Sunday...It is a law of the Catholic Church alone..." -- Catholic American Sentinel (June 1893)​
First of all – the statements you have quoted have been taken OUT of context.
“No Scriptural Authority” simply means that it is not MANDATED y Scripture – NOT that it wasn’t practiced in Scripture, Einstein.

One of the statements you completely LIED about, was also taken OUT of context:
"The church is above the bible and this transference of the sabbath observance is proof of that fact."

When read in CONTEXT, you will see that this comment was made by a PROTESTANT MINISTER - Rev. J. Marion Smith, of Emmanuel BAPTIST Church. He was speaking ABOUT the Catholic Church – and NOT with any authority to do so on her behalf.

Doesn’t is bother ANY of you the lengths that Phoneyman and others will go wo concoct LIES against Churches they disagree with??
 
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Jun2u

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Phoneman777,

Please read posts 18 & 19 and give me your input if I am faithful to the word of God. Thanks
 
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brakelite

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Phoneman777,

Please read posts 18 & 19 and give me your input if I am faithful to the word of God. Thanks
It's a novel concept, I will give you that. Strange that neither Matthew or John or Paul noticed it. Nor Luke, who in Acts informs us that the church continued to meet every Sabbath and Paul entered the synagogues "as was his custom" every Sabbath. Not one mention of a general church gathering on the first day of the week in the entire book. And the legalists who came into the church from Judaism of course had absolutely no problem with Sunday observance right? They simply discarded the ancient Sabbath without a whimper, debate, or protest.
One must wonder at why history records Christian Sabbath keepers well into the 4th and 5th centuries, and being constantly persecuted by the Catholic church because of it. As Phoneman's quote from the council of Laodicea affirms.
 
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Jun2u

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[QUOTE="brakelite, post: 483255, member: 6216"]Not one mention of a general church gathering on the first day of the week in the entire book. And the legalists who came into the church from Judaism of course had absolutely no problem with Sunday observance right? They simply discarded the ancient Sabbath without a whimper, debate, or protest.[/QUOTE]

I guess you’ve NEVER read or UNDERSTOOD the meaning of Acts 13:42, 44!!!

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Do you honestly believe Paul will preach to the Gentiles on the Seventh Day Sabbath? Do you really have any idea what chaos that will create between Paul and the Jews? Which Sabbath is in view then?

The only logical view is found in Matthew 28:1 where it is declared, “In the end of the Sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the Sabbaths.” In other words, the era of the Seventh Day Sabbaths was coming to an end, and the dawning of a new era of Sunday Sabbaths is on the horizon as also declared to be “the first day of the week” in other verses.

In verse 44 the term “next sabbath day” has to mean the “first day of the week” as almost the whole city gathered together to hear the word of God. Since that time until today, the New Testament churches correctly worshipped on the first day of the week as declared by Matthew (not by the RCC) who was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when he uttered the words in Matthew 28:1.

To God Be The Glory
 
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brakelite

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Do you honestly believe Paul will preach to the Gentiles on the Seventh Day Sabbath?
Absolutely. To claim otherwise is to twist the scripture beyond all recognition. Sunday was not called the Sabbath. If it was, then you would have seen controversy between the Jews and Paul.
 

Jun2u

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Absolutely. To claim otherwise is to twist the scripture beyond all recognition. Sunday was not called the Sabbath. If it was, then you would have seen controversy between the Jews and Paul.

Exactly! And this is the reason the Gentiles sought to meet together the “next Sabbath” which is the first day of the week. The word “next” in Greek is the word “metaxu” according to Strong’s Concordance, and in English, it means “between.” Go ahead check me out.

Therefore, Acts 13:42 would have read, “...the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the ‘between’ sabbath” which would have been the Sunday Sabbath.

In the Old Testament, the Seventh Day Sabbath goes from the seventh day to the next seventh day every seven days. That would make Sunday Sabbaths between Seventh Day Sabbaths.

Yes God called Sunday or the first day of the week a Sabbath in Acts 13:42, 44.

Remember, Acts 13 is God’s words, not mine!!!

To God Be The Glory
 
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brakelite

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And this is the reason the Gentiles sought to meet together the “next Sabbath” which is the first day of the week.
That is nonsense. A lie. The Sabbath is the 7th day. To make the Sabbath the first day is the twisting of scripture I was referring to. If you asked Jesus "what day is the Sabbath day" He would inform you that it was the day He sanctified and made holy at creation. Paul would have agreed with Jesus. And when the gentiles asked for him to preach to them again the following Sabbath he, and they would have had no doubt as to what day they were referring to. Any other day the Jews would have stoned them on the spot. Stop screwing with God word.
 

Jun2u

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Stop screwing with God word.

Please, if you don't care what others have to say or search out the Greek words that have been offered that is your prerogative. I can't argue you to heaven anyway.

Just don't use derogatory remarks on a Christian forum. Thank you

To God Be The Glory.
 
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brakelite

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Call it derogatory of you like. Nevertheless, that is what you are doing. You are using the meaning of the word to suit your agenda. Nowhere either in the English or Greek, in the Latin, dyadic. Syraic, Ethiopian, Coptic, or any other ancient language was it remotely suggested that the "between" inferred in the language specifically meant Sunday. That is purely your assumption built on your own preconceived opinion.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue,.... The time of worship there being over; or being offended at the apostle's discourse concerning Jesus: the words will bear to be rendered, "when they were gone out of the synagogue of the Jews"; and the sense be, when Paul and Barnabas were come out from thence, Paul having finished his discourse: the word "Jews", and the phrase, "out of the synagogue", are left out in Beza's ancient copy, and in the Alexandrian copy, and in the Vulgate Latin, and Syriac versions; and so may be interpreted either of the Jews, or of Paul and Barnabas; the Ethiopic version leaves out the whole clause: "the Gentiles besought that these words might be spoken unto them the next sabbath"; that is, the proselytes from among the Gentiles, who attended on the synagogue of the Jews, and who stayed behind when the Jews were gone out, being exceedingly delighted with the apostle's doctrine, most earnestly entreated that the same subject might be insisted upon the next sabbath: or, as Dr. Lightfoot observes, the words may be rendered, "they besought the Gentiles"; that is, the apostles, when they saw the Jews go out, being offended, addressed the Gentiles, and entreated them to come the next sabbath day, and patiently hear these doctrines: though in the above copies and versions there is no mention made of the Gentiles, any more than of the Jews; so that this may be understood either of the rulers of the synagogue, who first invited them to speak a word of exhortation to the people, or of the whole body, Jews and proselytes, who, when they were departing, entreated they might hear them again the next sabbath; about which "next sabbath", there is some difficulty; the words may be rendered, "between the sabbath", and so may regard what we call weekdays, or working days; and which the Jews call , "the intermediate days", or the days between one sabbath and another (s); and on some one of these days it was desired that the apostles would give them another discourse on the same subject; and it may be particularly, that either Monday or Thursday, the second or fifth day of the week, might be pitched upon; since on these days the Jews met together in the synagogue, and read the law, according to the order of Ezra, that they might not be three days without the law (t); and these were the days on which they fasted, Luke 18:12. Others choose to render the words, "on the sabbath day after"; and so the Syriac version renders it, "on the other sabbath"; and the Ethiopic version, "the sabbath following"; and so the Vulgate Latin, with which ours, and others agree; and to this reading and sense, Acts 13:44 greatly inclines; though they might meet together on one of the days between, when being so delighted with what they heard, and of which they so much talked, that the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear: but what pleases me best, and which, I think, has never been observed by any, is, that there was one sabbath in the year which was called ; which may be rendered by , "the sabbath between", or the intermediate sabbath; and this sabbath was on one of the ten days before the day of atonement; and was so called, because it was between the first of Tisri, which answers to part of our September, and was the beginning of the year, and the tenth of the same month, which was the day of atonement; and was a sabbath very much taken notice of by the Jews (u): and now this might be the sabbath following, and so all agrees; and a reason may be given for the different phrases in this verse, and Acts 13:44 and if so, this also points out the time of the year that Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch in Pisidia, and when that remarkable period began, that the apostles turned from the Jews, and preached to the Gentiles.
 
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brakelite

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The above exposition by Gill agrees with all other major commentaries on the subject. And even though they are Sunday keepers, not one of them dared use this rendering to support their doctrine.
 
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Phoneman777

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You need to read it again. Here's the CEV:
10 On that day (a future day) God’s people will (future tense) rest from their work, just as God rested from his work.

11 We should do our best to enter that place of rest, so that none of us will disobey and miss going there (When we die), as they did.
The CEV is based on the CORRUPT CORRUPT CORRUPT "Critical (Alexandrian) Text" NT compiled by Westcott, Hort, Tichendorf, and the rest of those pathetic "Protestant" papal sympathizers. Read it cautiously but trust only the Textus Receptus of the Protestant Reformation. Youtube "A Lamp In The Dark" for a comprehensive doc on "the untold history of the Bible".
 

Phoneman777

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First of all – the statements you have quoted have been taken OUT of context.
“No Scriptural Authority” simply means that it is not MANDATED y Scripture – NOT that it wasn’t practiced in Scripture, Einstein.
So, God writing it in stone is not "mandated"? Asinine, Dead Bread. BTW, where is it mandated in Scripture that priests are to rape boys and the High Priest is to cover it up?

One of the statements you completely LIED about, was also taken OUT of context:
"The church is above the bible and this transference of the sabbath observance is proof of that fact."When read in CONTEXT, you will see that this comment was made by a PROTESTANT MINISTER - Rev. J. Marion Smith, of Emmanuel BAPTIST Church. He was speaking ABOUT the Catholic Church – and NOT with any authority to do so on her behalf.
Dead Bread, when will you learn that denying reality is no substitute for argument? Here is an excerpt from the Catholic Record in which the catholic - NOT PROTESTANT - writer plainly states the position of the catholic church regarding whether she is or not "above the Bible":

"Now in the matter of Sabbath observance the Protestant rule of Faith is utterly unable to explain the substitution of the Christian Sunday for the Jewish Saturday. It has been changed. The Bible still teaches that the Sabbath or Saturday should be kept holy. There is no authority in the New Testament for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday. Surely it is an important matter. It stands there in the Bible as one of the Ten Commandments of God. There is no authority in the Bible for abrogating this Commandment, or for transferring its observance to another day of the week.
For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God."
Really Dead Bread, why don't you switch over to Protestantism, since every word out of your mouth is a denial of catholicism's official statements?[/QUOTE]
 

BreadOfLife

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So, God writing it in stone is not "mandated"? Asinine, Dead Bread. BTW, where is it mandated in Scripture that priests are to rape boys and the High Priest is to cover it up?
Probably right next to the place where it says that there are far more molestations going on in your PROTESTANT sects than in the Catholic Church . . .
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy
Dead Bread, when will you learn that denying reality is no substitute for argument? Here is an excerpt from the Catholic Record in which the catholic - NOT PROTESTANT - writer plainly states the position of the catholic church regarding whether she is or not "above the Bible":

"Now in the matter of Sabbath observance the Protestant rule of Faith is utterly unable to explain the substitution of the Christian Sunday for the Jewish Saturday. It has been changed. The Bible still teaches that the Sabbath or Saturday should be kept holy. There is no authority in the New Testament for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday. Surely it is an important matter. It stands there in the Bible as one of the Ten Commandments of God. There is no authority in the Bible for abrogating this Commandment, or for transferring its observance to another day of the week.
For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance from Saturday to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God."
Really Dead Bread, why don't you switch over to Protestantism, since every word out of your mouth is a denial of catholicism's official statements?
Boy - talk about pathetic and desperate . . .
I already proved that you LIED about this back in post #22.

Your supposed "Catholic" writer was actually a PROTESTANT MINISTER - Rev. J. Marion Smith, of Emmanuel BAPTIST Church. He was speaking ABOUT the Catholic Church – and NOT with any authority to do so on her behalf.

Are you really so pathetic that you have to falsely attribute your moronic anti-Catholic garbage to Catholics??
 

Phoneman777

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Probably right next to the place where it says that there are far more molestations going on in your PROTESTANT sects than in the Catholic Church . . .
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

Boy - talk about pathetic and desperate . . .
I already proved that you LIED about this back in post #22.

Your supposed "Catholic" writer was actually a PROTESTANT MINISTER - Rev. J. Marion Smith, of Emmanuel BAPTIST Church. He was speaking ABOUT the Catholic Church – and NOT with any authority to do so on her behalf.

Are you really so pathetic that you have to falsely attribute your moronic anti-Catholic garbage to Catholics??
Jesuit Dead Bread, telling lies often enough has no effect on those who ever seek the truth. That statement was from a CATHOLIC writer, as the excerpt I provided proves. Checkmate.
 

Phoneman777

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Phoneman777,

Please read posts 18 & 19 and give me your input if I am faithful to the word of God. Thanks
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I fully agree with Brakelite's exegesis. God said in Psalms 89:34, "My covenant will I not break, NOR ALTER the thing that is gone from My lips." Also said of the Ten Commandments, "The works of His hands (with which He wrote them) are verity and judgment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness." Psalms 111:7-8 KJV

I ask you, what went forth from God's lips and was written by His own hand in stone that is associated with the Old and New Covenant? That's right: the Ten Commandments, which He says He will never alter and stand fast. They are immune to man's attempts to make Sunday a part of them.
 
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Phoneman777

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Probably right next to the place where it says that there are far more molestations going on in your PROTESTANT sects than in the Catholic Church . . .
Jesuit Dead Bread, I just spoke with a police officer who works with the sex crimes unit in our city which is the hub of the Catholic church here in the South and the subject of numerous child sex rape/molestation scandals due to the extremely high number of disgusting, child anus obsessed priests who work or have worked in the various Catholic schools and churches in the area.

He said the Catholic church is steeped in these kinds of scandals way more so than any other groups, contrary to your propagandist fodder.

But since your own church believes itself to be "above the Bible", well then, you all can rape as many children as the pope is inclined to give consent, right?
 

BreadOfLife

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Jesuit Dead Bread, I just spoke with a police officer who works with the sex crimes unit in our city which is the hub of the Catholic church here in the South and the subject of numerous child sex rape/molestation scandals due to the extremely high number of disgusting, child anus obsessed priests who work or have worked in the various Catholic schools and churches in the area.

He said the Catholic church is steeped in these kinds of scandals way more so than any other groups, contrary to your propagandist fodder.

But since your own church believes itself to be "above the Bible", well then, you all can rape as many children as the pope is inclined to give consent, right?
Of course you have an anonymous "friend" who feeds you anti-Catholic information.
You see - MY research, which is all documented, shows a different trend . . .

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR


Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
 

BreadOfLife

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Jesuit Dead Bread, telling lies often enough has no effect on those who ever seek the truth. That statement was from a CATHOLIC writer, as the excerpt I provided proves. Checkmate.
Ummmmm, R*E*A*D the article again.
The quote is from a BAPTIST Minister, Rev. J. Marion Smith.

Your once comical accusations have now just become pathetic and stupid . . .
 

CoreIssue

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The early Christians met in local synagogues. Since the Jews met on Saturday, they chose to meet on Sunday.

Roman Catholicism didn't even exist at that time.