Did The Bible Or The Papacy Transfer The Sabbath Rest To Sunday?

[BreadOfLife]

What seems to me white, I will believe black if the hierarchical Church so defines.

This is typically Catholic. A perversion of authority and common sense. The result of his teachings brought about jesuitism. Rotten apples don't fall from an uncorrupted tree.

Si, does this mean that you CAN'T point to one of his "perverted" teachings??
Pretty much what I thought . . .

 

[Waiting on him]

What day did Adam observe as sabbath before being cast from the garden?

 

[brakelite]

Si, does this mean that you CAN'T point to one of his "perverted" teachings??
Pretty much what I thought . . .

Oh, on the contrary. I already quoted Loyola, saying if that a superior, aka pope, says something is black, when it is in fact white, then a good Jesuit believes it to be black.
In all of the situations provided by Loyola and his spiritual exercises, moral judgment becomes suspended. Truth becomes subject to the experience or supervisor rather than the absolute standard of God’s Word. If that isn't a perversion of reason and reality, then let us all open our minds to whatever may decide to enter, leaving our brains at the door.

 

[Enoch111]

What day did Adam observe as sabbath before being cast from the garden?

There's nothing to connect Adam with any sabbath observance before he was cast out of the garden.

Man's tiresome labor was a part of the curse on the human race:In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground (Gen 3:19) And because of this, a day of rest was mandated for humanity: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (Exod 20:9,10)

Of course, there's more to it than that. But the Sabbath was given to Israel as a part of the Law of Moses AND AS A SIGN: Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exod 31:16,17)

Modern Sabbatarians completely forget this passage, and also what is taught regarding the first day of the week -- the Lord's Day.

 

[epostle]

Nope.
That was some of the beginnings.
Remember, the so-called church fathers were the fathers of the Catholic Church, not Christ Church.

You repeatedly make stupid digs against Catholicism that are unfounded and historically ridiculous. Since this is an anti-Catholic forum and the moderators have a double standard you get away with it. You make MANY asinine statements such as drawing a dichotomy between the Catholic Church and "Christ Church", as if there was a difference. I ask you like I repeatedly asked the other sadist, NAME ONE MEMBER OF "CHRIST CHURCH" DURING THE TIME OF THE EARY CHURCH FATHERS WHO WAS NOT CATHOLIC. The fact that you cannot give any names reveals your church history to be fiction, twisted to make it fit your presuppositions.
And if we appeal to reputable PROTESTANT historians, you dismiss, ignore or deny it anyway.

If you hate the Catholic Church, you hate Jesus. Period.

 

[epostle]

FOR ONE NAME OF A NON-CATHOLIC "TRUE BELIEVER"
OF THE FIRST 1000 YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY.

 

[brakelite]

FOR ONE NAME OF A NON-CATHOLIC "TRUE BELIEVER"
OF THE FIRST 1000 YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY.

Jesus. John. Andrew. Peter. Mark. Matthew. Luke. Paul. James. Judas (not Iscariot). Bartholomew. All the names at the end of Paul's letters he addressed as brethren. All those who names are written not in the specific history books, but are written in heaven who were martyred throughout the last 2000 years, at first by the pagan Romans, then by those who inherited the Roman throne of the Caesars, those 'Catholics' you try and defend. All the people of the Waldensians who for over 1000 years stood resolutely against your forbears persecutions. You want us to name names? Go to Foxxe's book of Martyrs...he names hundreds who your forbears tortured, beheaded, burnt, and buried. For no other reason than they loved Christ more than your pope.

The more pertinent question would be name one genuine Christian who remained a part of the Catholic apostasy after they assimilated with the world and became a union of pagan secular power and a divorced adulterous Christianity which went to bed with the kings and queens of the earth.

 

[Waiting on him]

There's nothing to connect Adam with any sabbath observance before he was cast out of the garden.

Man's tiresome labor was a part of the curse on the human race:In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground (Gen 3:19) And because of this, a day of rest was mandated for humanity: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (Exod 20:9,10)

Of course, there's more to it than that. But the Sabbath was given to Israel as a part of the Law of Moses AND AS A SIGN: Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exod 31:16,17)

Modern Sabbatarians completely forget this passage, and also what is taught regarding the first day of the week -- the Lord's Day.

Thank you for sharing that. This brings light to a lot of questions I’ve had. I believe in John chapter 5 Jesus is explaining to the Pharisees that he’s not governed by their laws. I see now that the Sabbath was not created for man, this is a law that he ordained to display what he was going to perform in the future, but sadly his people had turned this sign into something that would display their piety. I’m thinking that if I choose to observe this day (Saturday) then it is almost as if I am trying to kidnap his glory, i’m placing a fig leaf over the covering that he has placed on me. There should be a place in the scripture that refers to him as Jehovah sneaky. I am convinced that he has performed a marvelous work and I am to rest. By me not observing the Sabbath I am proclaiming that he has completed it and this is his day(the day of the Lord).

We have entered into his rest. Not wrest

 

[Waiting on him]

Thank you for sharing that. This brings light to a lot of questions I’ve had. I believe in John chapter 5 Jesus is explaining to the Pharisees that he’s not governed by their laws. I see now that the Sabbath was not created for man, this is a law that he ordained to display what he was going to perform in the future, but sadly his people had turned this sign into something that would display their piety. I’m thinking that if I choose to observe this day (Saturday) then it is almost as if I am trying to kidnap his glory, i’m placing a fig leaf over the covering that he has placed on me. There should be a place in the scripture that refers to him as Jehovah sneaky. I am convinced that he has performed a marvelous work and I am to rest. By me not observing the Sabbath I am proclaiming that he has completed it and this is his day(the day of the Lord).

We have entered into his rest. Not wrest

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[CoreIssue]

FOR ONE NAME OF A NON-CATHOLIC "TRUE BELIEVER"
OF THE FIRST 1000 YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY.

Everyone named in the Bible.

 

[Waiting on him]

Everyone named in the Bible.

That looks pretty well at rest

 

[Marymog]

What seems to me white, I will believe black if the hierarchical Church so defines.

This is typically Catholic. A perversion of authority and common sense. The result of his teachings brought about jesuitism. Rotten apples don't fall from an uncorrupted tree.

Hmmmm......don’t see an anwswer to my request about Loyola so I will move on from that.

Do you believe that the 27 books (letters) of the NT are inspired by God and there are no more letters out there that should have been in the Bible?

Curious Mary

 

[brakelite]

Hmmmm......don’t see an anwswer to my request about Loyola so I will move on from that.

Do you believe that the 27 books (letters) of the NT are inspired by God and there are no more letters out there that should have been in the Bible?

Curious Mary

First, anyone demanding full and unreasoned obedience to any man is a fool. Second, there is sufficient in scripture to provide anyone with all that is needed to become wise unto salvation.

 

[Marymog]

First, anyone demanding full and unreasoned obedience to any man is a fool. Second, there is sufficient in scripture to provide anyone with all that is needed to become wise unto salvation.

Once again NO ANSWER.

I suspect you don't even know the history of how you got that light bible you quote from and what used to be considered scripture until the Catholic Church told you what was scripture.

Since you are unable to articulate a reason for your beliefs....I will move on.

Moving on Mary

 

[farouk]

Thank you for sharing that. This brings light to a lot of questions I’ve had. I believe in John chapter 5 Jesus is explaining to the Pharisees that he’s not governed by their laws. I see now that the Sabbath was not created for man, this is a law that he ordained to display what he was going to perform in the future, but sadly his people had turned this sign into something that would display their piety. I’m thinking that if I choose to observe this day (Saturday) then it is almost as if I am trying to kidnap his glory, i’m placing a fig leaf over the covering that he has placed on me. There should be a place in the scripture that refers to him as Jehovah sneaky. I am convinced that he has performed a marvelous work and I am to rest. By me not observing the Sabbath I am proclaiming that he has completed it and this is his day(the day of the Lord).

We have entered into his rest. Not wrest

The other aspect is that the law - of which system the Old Testament sabbath was part in any case - was changed (Hebrews 7.12) and what we now have is better than the law (Hebrews 7.19).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, on the contrary. I already quoted Loyola, saying if that a superior, aka pope, says something is black, when it is in fact white, then a good Jesuit believes it to be black.
In all of the situations provided by Loyola and his spiritual exercises, moral judgment becomes suspended. Truth becomes subject to the experience or supervisor rather than the absolute standard of God’s Word. If that isn't a perversion of reason and reality, then let us all open our minds to whatever may decide to enter, leaving our brains at the door.

Can you point me to the quote where St. Ignatius Loyola said that a good Jesuit must blindly believe everything the Pope says - no matter what?
I searched this entire thread and wasn't able to find it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Everyone named in the Bible.

Then NAME one - ANY one from the first 1000 years of Christianity.

 

[brakelite]

I see now that the Sabbath was not created for man

What then do you make of this...Mr 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
I think you know who created all things right: Jesus? So He was the one Who also created the Sabbath, and here He is saying that
1. He created it for man's benefit and
2. He is the rightful Lord of it...which being the one Who established it, is only natural for Him to be Lord of that day...so we can then answer accurately, which day is the Lord's day?
So at creation, on that 7th day which Jesus sanctified and blessed, making it holy and sacred, what man was there present for whom Jesus made that first Sabbath? Only Adam was there with his wife Eve correct? So Jesus initially made that first 7th day for Adam, but not only Adam, for all his progeny also, knowing that mankind needed a special time to set aside for His Creator, and to rest from his labours...thus it is for man's good, to be a blessing and a day of fellowship with God and his fellow man. Not a burden as the Pharisees made it, and that far too many Christians today believe it to be. Nor did He make it just for the Jews...there weren't any Jews around for another couple of thousand years give or take. That word 'man', in Mark2:27 above, is a generic term meaning all mankind.
ἄνθρωπος anthropos anth’-ro-pos
from 435 and ops (the countenance, from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being; n m; TDNT-1:364,59; {See TDNT 72} {See TDNT "the Son of Man" 807}
AV-man 552, not tr 4, misc 3; 559
1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels

My testimony is that when I began to observe the Sabbath...deliberately laying aside all secular labour and doing what I could to focus the day on God and my family and church, so much more of scripture, the nature of God, His plan of salvation, His love for mankind, came into sharper focus and made much more sense. You see, the day is still holy. Jesus never changed that...He is the same today as He was 6000 years ago. His love for mankind covers all peoples, tongues, nations, and tribes...when He proclaimed from Mt Sinai "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...He wasn't instituting something new. He was reminding Israel of something that always had been...a day set aside for them and Him to come together and rest awhile. And Israel, by the faithfulness and example, was to be a light to the gentiles and share that same knowledge and understanding with all their neighbours and friends...this they failed to do. Their becoming insular and self absorbed meant that the Sabbath became an empty ritual they abused, rather than a rich blessing to share with others. I have no intention of doing the same. It is a blessing. Enjoy it!
Isaiah 58:13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[brakelite]

Can you point me to the quote where St. Ignatius Loyola said that a good Jesuit must blindly believe everything the Pope says - no matter what?
I searched this entire thread and wasn't able to find it.

Loyola's quotes are all over the internet...why on earth would you look for it just in this thread? Is this all of a sudden a Jesuit web site? Am I in the wrong place?

 

[Waiting on him]

What then do you make of this...Mr 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
I think you know who created all things right: Jesus? So He was the one Who also created the Sabbath, and here He is saying that
1. He created it for man's benefit and
2. He is the rightful Lord of it...which being the one Who established it, is only natural for Him to be Lord of that day...so we can then answer accurately, which day is the Lord's day?
So at creation, on that 7th day which Jesus sanctified and blessed, making it holy and sacred, what man was there present for whom Jesus made that first Sabbath? Only Adam was there with his wife Eve correct? So Jesus initially made that first 7th day for Adam, but not only Adam, for all his progeny also, knowing that mankind needed a special time to set aside for His Creator, and to rest from his labours...thus it is for man's good, to be a blessing and a day of fellowship with God and his fellow man. Not a burden as the Pharisees made it, and that far too many Christians today believe it to be. Nor did He make it just for the Jews...there weren't any Jews around for another couple of thousand years give or take. That word 'man', in Mark2:27 above, is a generic term meaning all mankind.
ἄνθρωπος anthropos anth’-ro-pos
from 435 and ops (the countenance, from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being; n m; TDNT-1:364,59; {See TDNT 72} {See TDNT "the Son of Man" 807}
AV-man 552, not tr 4, misc 3; 559
1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels

My testimony is that when I began to observe the Sabbath...deliberately laying aside all secular labour and doing what I could to focus the day on God and my family and church, so much more of scripture, the nature of God, His plan of salvation, His love for mankind, came into sharper focus and made much more sense. You see, the day is still holy. Jesus never changed that...He is the same today as He was 6000 years ago. His love for mankind covers all peoples, tongues, nations, and tribes...when He proclaimed from Mt Sinai "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...He wasn't instituting something new. He was reminding Israel of something that always had been...a day set aside for them and Him to come together and rest awhile. And Israel, by the faithfulness and example, was to be a light to the gentiles and share that same knowledge and understanding with all their neighbours and friends...this they failed to do. Their becoming insular and self absorbed meant that the Sabbath became an empty ritual they abused, rather than a rich blessing to share with others. I have no intention of doing the same. It is a blessing. Enjoy it!
Isaiah 58:13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The rest I’m in is everyday is the sabbath. I don’t want to bring anyone under bondage. He says break every chain.