Did the messengers lie about Jesus coming in the first century?

[MatthewG]

There needs to be some clarification on that statement by Christ.

He is speaking of the Great Tribulation. The generation that is alive during the time of which Christ is speaking will not pass away until all those things be fulfilled.

Christ is saying that when it starts, it will be quick, there will be no further delays.

That is the confusion. People believe in a literal thousand of years when it simply means the fullness of time. You are right when these things are needed to be clarified.

My main objective is for people to look, see, and think about what Jesus had stated, in the Gospels.

People should know that all the letters were pretty much written between the times of 54AD-69AD though some people debate that, saying John wrote way later.

This is the confusing part.


If Jesus Christ made a promise to return with-in that Generation, then all those things had to become fulfilled, everything he spoke of including his return.

There is no trying to say "there is double prophecy here" or anything, he said it one time, to that generation he was standing around.

Matthew 24:34, yes it is speaking of the great tribulation, now one must go seek out what is talked about in the Revelation...

You have all kinds of subjects with-in the Bible so much explaining, there are also historical records that prove the fulfillment of the prophecies pertaining to the return though they are non-believer account - they would not have seen Jesus coming - but those who were seeking did see Him come, during that destruction, I believe by faith and personally, in Ad 70 when the Temple was torn down, and those seeking and looking for him did see him, just like that scripture you shared earlier from Zachria.

 

[Charlie24]

That is the confusion. People believe in a literal thousand of years when it simply means the fullness of time. You are right when these things are needed to be clarified.

My main objective is for people to look, see, and think about what Jesus had stated, in the Gospels.

People should know that all the letters were pretty much written between the times of 54AD-69AD though some people debate that, saying John wrote way later.

This is the confusing part.


If Jesus Christ made a promise to return with-in that Generation, then all those things had to become fulfilled, everything he spoke of including his return.

There is no trying to say "there is double prophecy here" or anything, he said it one time, to that generation he was standing around.

Matthew 24:34, yes it is speaking of the great tribulation, now one must go seek out what is talked about in the Revelation...

You have all kinds of subjects with-in the Bible so much explaining, there are also historical records that prove the fulfillment of the prophecies pertaining to the return though they are non-believer account - they would not have seen Jesus coming - but those who were seeking did see Him come, during that destruction, I believe by faith and personally, in Ad 70 when the Temple was torn down, and those seeking and looking for him did see him, just like that scripture you shared earlier from Zachria.

It's not a double prophesy it's a fact that Christ was speaking of the generation alive at the time of the Great Tribulation, which is what Matt. 24 is all about.

If the GT and the return of Christ has already happened, where is the history of this taking place. Jewish historians wrote about many things that happened, especially Josephus. We're talking about cataclysmic events taking place. Surly there is some record of this.

I'm fairly well read in the matters of Scripture, I have never read or heard of any such records.

 

[MatthewG]

It's not a double prophesy it's a fact that Christ was speaking of the generation alive at the time of the Great Tribulation, which is what Matt. 24 is all about.

If the GT and the return of Christ has already happened, where is the history of this taking place. Jewish historians wrote about many things that happened, especially Josephus. We're talking about cataclysmic events taking place. Surly there is some record of this.

I'm fairly well read in the matters of Scripture, I have never read or heard of any such records.

Totally understandable and one of those records is that "Jesus had came back", which is never said anywhere in the Bible, however by faith I believe he did come save those people who were having their whole heaven and earth torn apart.

There would be nothing ever greater than what would happen when the abomination of desolation arrived perhaps a riot at the time of Jews destruction.

It is has been awhile since being able to really talk about it with anyone.

I really do believe it all has been fulfilled regardless if I am not able to explain it, there is enough proof in the Bible alone to say it was for those people who were encouraged to wait, watch, and they would see him come again in the clouds, just as he had ascended.

It is a vital part of the Gospel, perhaps not as much as the resurrection but still it was a promise in the gospels, and spoken by the apostles for those believers to be looking, waiting, and seeking for him to come, I can never forget this.

 

[MatthewG]

Have you ever noticed when reading Revelation 2-4ish, when Jesus addressing the Churches in that day in age and how strict and harsh he was speaking to them? It is almost hard to believe it is the same Jesus Christ who had came and died.

For example the message to the Sardis and LAodicea

To the Church in Sardis
3 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes.They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hearwhat the Spirit says to the churches.

To the Church in Philadelphia
7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8 I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open doorthat no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.



To the Church in Laodicea
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus even says there in Revelation 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

He is coming soon. How can we get around these things, with all that is left with the rest of the Revelation ya know?

 

[ScottA]

There needs to be some clarification on that statement by Christ.

He is speaking of the Great Tribulation. The generation that is alive during the time of which Christ is speaking will not pass away until all those things be fulfilled.

Christ is saying that when it starts, it will be quick, there will be no further delays.

Yes...but then the question needs to be asked: What greater tribulation could come at any time other than "all" tribulation, that tribulation that was put upon Christ?

 

[Dropship]

As we know, when referring to the endworld Apocalypse and his return, Jesus said-"This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Matthew 24:34)
Taken literally that may seem puzzling because the apocalypse and his return certainly didn't happen during the lifetime of the people of his generation 2000 years ago, and still hasn't happened yet.
But consider this speculation- Perhaps the Big Bang is the "generation" Jesus was referring to, as it "generated" the universe?
We could therefore suggest that from Adam and Eve right on through all the human generations up to the present and beyond is one great "generation of humankind"?

 

[Charlie24]

Totally understandable and one of those records is that "Jesus had came back", which is never said anywhere in the Bible, however by faith I believe he did come save those people who were having their whole heaven and earth torn apart.

There would be nothing ever greater than what would happen when the abomination of desolation arrived perhaps a riot at the time of Jews destruction.

It is has been awhile since being able to really talk about it with anyone.

I really do believe it all has been fulfilled regardless if I am not able to explain it, there is enough proof in the Bible alone to say it was for those people who were encouraged to wait, watch, and they would see him come again in the clouds, just as he had ascended.

It is a vital part of the Gospel, perhaps not as much as the resurrection but still it was a promise in the gospels, and spoken by the apostles for those believers to be looking, waiting, and seeking for him to come, I can never forget this.

MatthewG, I studied at Bob Jones University for 4 years, earned a B/A in theology/the study of Scripture. I studied the history of the great historians, the accounts they gave, the source of how they received it until it ran out of my ears.

The Scripture says that "every eye" shall see Him at His return. Are you telling me that Christ has returned and not a single person or any reputable person told by those who were eyewitnesses recorded this event?

In all my studies I have not seen anything that would verify what you have said! If there were any proof of this whatsoever, I would have seen it!

 

[ScottA]

Jesus even says there in Revelation 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

He is coming soon. How can we get around these things, with all that is left with the rest of the Revelation ya know?

Yes, back then "—things which must shortly take place."

 

[MatthewG]

MatthewG, I studied at Bob Jones University for 4 years, earned a B/A in theology/the study of Scripture. I studied the history of the great historians, the accounts they gave, the source of how they received it until it ran out of my ears.

The Scripture says that "every eye" shall see Him at His return. Are you telling me that Christ has returned and not a single person or any reputable person told by those who were eyewitnesses recorded this event?

In all my studies I have not seen anything that would verify what you have said! If there were any proof of this whatsoever, I would have seen it!

Revelation 1:7 even those who pierced him meaning the Romans, but also the Jews who had put him to death. Anyone in that day in age who was looking to see him there in Jerusalem were taken. That is all I can say, I believe by faith that it happened. All I know is that 1,000,000 Jews people were left dead that day, and those were saved from the wrath were taken and changed at the twinkling of an eye.

That is cool you have done so much studying good for you, I am a high school drop out.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, back then "—things which must shortly take place."

It all comes down to faith when it boils down to it anyway doesn't it ScottA, and having known this it is also a good thing to be free.

People will use the return of christ and manipulate people to do their bidding and stuff, all types of crooked stuff, if you don't REPENT YOU GOING TO HELL AND BURN FOREVER WHILE THE DEVIL POKING YOU IN THE BACK WITH A PITCHFORK...

Rather than all that traditional stuff I rather take the Revelation at face value being appointed a promise to come, perhaps written and sent out about 68-69 AD giving a total of an hour for them to either repent or lose their lives and everything in the destruction... because literally everything was destroyed.

 

[ScottA]

As we know, when referring to the endworld Apocalypse and his return, Jesus said-"This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Matthew 24:34)
Taken literally that may seem puzzling because the apocalypse and his return certainly didn't happen during the lifetime of the people of his generation 2000 years ago, and still hasn't happened yet.
But consider this speculation- Perhaps the Big Bang is the "generation" Jesus was referring to, as it "generated" the universe?
We could therefore suggest that from Adam and Eve right on through all the human generations up to the present and beyond is one great "generation of humankind"?

You say "certainly didn't take happen."

But it is written:

After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. John 19:28-30​

 

[marks]

As we know, when referring to the endworld Apocalypse and his return, Jesus said-"This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Matthew 24:34)
Taken literally that may seem puzzling because the apocalypse and his return certainly didn't happen during the lifetime of the people of his generation 2000 years ago, and still hasn't happened yet.
But consider this speculation- Perhaps the Big Bang is the "generation" Jesus was referring to, as it "generated" the universe?
We could therefore suggest that from Adam and Eve right on through all the human generations up to the present and beyond is one great "generation of humankind"?

Myself, I understand this passage as meaning, "the generation of Israel", that is, the ethnic people, "the Jews".

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

Yes...but then the question needs to be asked: What greater tribulation could come at any time other than "all" tribulation, that tribulation that was put upon Christ?

The tribulation that was placed on Christ was His tribulation that He accepted as the price He would pay to redeem man. That tribulation was His alone.

The tribulation that Christ was speaking of in Matt. 24 is the tribulation of man, the whole world. It's the wrath of God on man for rejecting His Son. Especially the Jews, they are the main focus of His wrath to bring them to Christ.

 

[ScottA]

It all comes down to faith when it boils down to it anyway doesn't it ScottA, and having known this it is also a good thing to be free.

People will use the return of christ and manipulate people to do their bidding and stuff, all types of crooked stuff, if you don't REPENT YOU GOING TO HELL AND BURN FOREVER WHILE THE DEVIL POKING YOU IN THE BACK WITH A PITCHFORK...

Rather than all that traditional stuff I rather take the Revelation at face value being appointed a promise to come, perhaps written and sent out about 68-69 AD giving a total of an hour for them to either repent or lose their lives and everything in the destruction... because literally everything was destroyed.

Yes, if we reckon with all that is written, it all can be clear, and it is rather as Paul elaborated after Jesus' own explanation about His return and each getting a knock at the door, Paul saying, "but each one in his own order."

 

[ScottA]

The tribulation that was placed on Christ was His tribulation that He accepted as the price He would pay to redeem man. That tribulation was His alone.

The tribulation that Christ was speaking of in Matt. 24 is the tribulation of man, the whole world. It's the wrath of God on man for rejecting His Son. Especially the Jews, they are the main focus of His wrath to bring them to Christ.

No, but it is He who bore the burden of all. We only share in His suffering. All on Him is greater than any other tribulation. All is all.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes...but then the question needs to be asked: What greater tribulation could come at any time other than "all" tribulation, that tribulation that was put upon Christ?

When thinking about this ScottA, Jesus was the first to suffer on behalf of the world, by willingly doing the will of the Father.

A great tribulation was going to come upon that Nation of Israel for having killed his Son.

Also Yes Scott #55, everyone gets a knock from God in their own life, either through nature, their conscious, or even by others having shared the Gospel with them.

The key really is now that because of everything being restored, everything really is like the Garden of Eden restored. People are making their decision to choose to have God in their life or not. It is not like it was prior having the Law, and doing things by it, Jesus took care of that, and the Wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel. The cup is now empty. PRAISE GOD!

 

[MatthewG]

People will use Gods wrath on other people and manipulate them like crazy!

God's wrath was poured out in divorcement with the nation of Israel putting an end to material religion!

I hate man-made traditions.

 

[ScottA]

The key really is now that because of everything being restored, everything really is like the Garden of Eden restored. People are making their decision to choose to have God in their life or not. It is not like it was prior having the Law, and doing things by it, Jesus took care of that, and the Wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel. The cup is now empty. PRAISE GOD!

I am not sure of all that you mean to include in that statement...but our current status is either dead in sin or "alive and remaining" (having been born again of the spirit of God) until the end--which is not the End whom is Christ, but the end of this world.

 

[Charlie24]

Revelation 1:7 even those who pierced him meaning the Romans, but also the Jews who had put him to death. Anyone in that day in age who was looking to see him there in Jerusalem were taken. That is all I can say, I believe by faith that it happened. All I know is that 1,000,000 Jews people were left dead that day, and those were saved from the wrath were taken and changed at the twinkling of an eye.

That is cool you have done so much studying good for you, I am a high school drop out.

So was I!!!! But we share something in common, MatthewG, we want to know more about God's Word.

So don't give up! Ol' Charlie will hopefully be around for a while longer to keep you straight, LOL!