Did the messengers lie about Jesus coming in the first century?

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stunnedbygrace

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From my understand by and through the Lord Jesus Christ, God have given you yourself the holy spirit by faith, according to Paul.
Right. But another post you said something like…if Jesus hasn’t returned already it would be Him lying.
But, I know how stubbornly you stick to your own understanding and don’t want to crank you up. I just drop in on you from time to time to see if that’s begun to change any. But it was good seeing you again! Carry on. Cant find any smilies.
 
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MatthewG

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Yes, yours may differ than mine, but I love you nonetheless, but there is a lot of benefits not from my perspective, but from what the bible says and states, and what Jesus and all the people who talked to him says and states, because debating about or trying to get someone convinced I am right, they need to really look at the bible and study it, and pray and really check out the material that is written by the secular authors that were mentioned earlier in the post like Taticus, Cassius Dio, Jospehus. However that is a very daunting task for anyone.

The benefits that I am talking about is having Jesus Christ as the head, and the victor over all things and that by and through faith in him you are a daughter of God and you are see made right with God by faith. God loves you and all unconditionally and on part of Christ as Christians we suffer through this life living a life for Him, and not one to seek after money, fame, fortuane and what the world gives.

From my understanding as Christians we are to look towards the heavenly things, and look forward to the day we finally get to go rest and be with God. And there are other things to understand with Jesus Christ having the victory, over Sin, Death, SAtan and his angels, Hell, and it leaves open the room for Apostle John in which he states that there is a Kingdom in the heavenly we will reside in, and those who dont want nothign to do with the kingdom are not going to be in their by their own choice but I do not believe they are completely suffering in a sense that they are unhappy if God still gives good gifts, and one of those gifts will be a resurrected body after this life to the believer and the nonbeliever.


So my hope is not in return of Christ today, because I believe he promised to come back and he did. Simple as that and that is something that hard for people to really get around because of just so much that comes from the bible.
 

jeffweeder

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Do you believe that Jesus would return to these people then in that age?

Jesus is said to fulfill that promise at the end of the age.

The people Jesus was directly speaking to would not have expected to see him return. Jesus had told them the Gospel would go to the ends of the earth before his return.
He was also answering the question regarding the time of restoration and gave a clearer answer to them in acts 3.


17 “Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance [not fully aware of what you were doing], just as your rulers did also. 18 And so God has fulfilled what He foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ (Messiah, Anointed) would suffer. 19 So repent [change your inner self—your old way of thinking, regret past sins] and return [to God—seek His purpose for your life], so that your sins may be wiped away [blotted out, completely erased], so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord [restoring you like a cool wind on a hot day]; 20 and that He may send [to you] Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.


Not one generation from the beginning to the end will have a formula to know the day or the Hour. He will come at an hour when we do not think he will.
 
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MatthewG

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Jesus is said to fulfill that promise at the end of the age.

hello Jeff, yes.

The people Jesus was directly speaking to would not have expected to see him return. Jesus had told them the Gospel would go to the ends of the earth before his return.

Have you ever considered what it mean for them at that time to mean “ends of the earth”, when hearing the phrase it seems that from one point of land to the end point of the land, but how far is that to a Jewish person? They knew about Egypt, and Rome. However perhaps your are right in your estimation.

He was also answering the question regarding the time of restoration and gave a clearer answer to them in acts 3.

There is several instances where the Apostles had told of Jesus was going to be coming with Statements also from Jesus himself, my encouragement is people will seek it out for themselves.

On the note of perhaps before Acts 3 that Peter makes a proclamation they they were in the last days, by quoting I think it was Joel or someone else.
17 “Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance [not fully aware of what you were doing], just as your rulers did also. 18 And so God has fulfilled what He foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ (Messiah, Anointed) would suffer. 19 So repent [change your inner self—your old way of thinking, regret past sins] and return [to God—seek His purpose for your life], so that your sins may be wiped away [blotted out, completely erased], so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord [restoring you like a cool wind on a hot day]; 20 and that He may send [to you] Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Oh okay, what section of the Bible is this from don’t like this amp one here.
Not one generation from the beginning to the end will have a formula to know the day or the Hour. He will come at an hour when we do not think he will.

To me that means death, Jeff.

no one on earth knows the time of their death, it’s why it’s always good to be prepared and secured in one’s faith.
 

jeffweeder

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hello Jeff, yes.

Hi Matthew G

Have you ever considered what it mean for them at that time to mean “ends of the earth”, when hearing the phrase it seems that from one point of land to the end point of the land, but how far is that to a Jewish person? They knew about Egypt, and Rome. However perhaps your are right in your estimation.

Well they were not aware of a lot of people like Australian Aborigines so they had no hope of fulfilling the task back in the first century.



On the note of perhaps before Acts 3 that Peter makes a proclamation they they were in the last days, by quoting I think it was Joel or someone else.

Yes he does on the same day. They were still using the term a couple of decades later when Hebrews was written...,

1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways, 2 has in these last days spoken [with finality] to us in [the person of One who is by His character and nature] His Son [namely Jesus], whom He appointed heir and lawful owner of all things, through whom also He created the universe [that is, the universe as a space-time-matter continuum].


Oh okay, what section of the Bible is this from don’t like this amp one here.

Acts 3.

whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.



To me that means death, Jeff.
Not death Matthew , but just like the days of Noah's world judgement washed the whole global population away.
The last day. The end of the age.

Matt 24
35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment].
God bless
 
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MatthewG

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hello Jeff, yes.

Hi Matthew G



Well they were not aware of a lot of people like Australian Aborigines so they had no hope of fulfilling the task back in the first century.

The Bible is very specific to the group of people it was talking to, and not so sure if Australian aborigines but maybe they do.

Yes he does on the same day. They were still using the term a couple of decades later when Hebrews was written...,
You are very knowledgeable in what you know about the Bible assuredly sir.

1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways, 2 has in these last days spoken [with finality] to us in [the person of One who is by His character and nature] His Son [namely Jesus], whom He appointed heir and lawful owner of all things, through whom also He created the universe [that is, the universe as a space-time-matter continuum].

Yes in this same context that time in that generation which Jesus promised to come back to where still in the last days, up to the last hour as recorded by John in one of his 3 small letters, perhaps the 1 John letter.

Acts 3.

whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Okay.

Not death Matthew , but just like the days of Noah's world judgement washed the whole global population away.

Oh of Jesus return I guess so once a person leaves this life. All people I believe will see the Lord God Almighty and meet him at least one time some how before a person either goes into the kingdom or is placed out side of it according to Revelation 21-22.

The last day. The end of the age.

From my understanding the end of the age is the end of the material age and a a new administration that has been established by Christ is now in place, it’s a place where people come into by faith, even the aborigines (who can see God through the creation of nature), will be able to go on to love God and love others one day going to be with God at end of life.

The administration is Spiritual by nature of how Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.

But when is the end of life? No one knows the day or the hour of their death except, perhaps their last breathe that is given up. I do not know.
God bless
Thank you for dialouging.
 

MatthewG

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What is meant by Material Age is the Age of the Material was the Jewish people had kept (priesthood, sacrifices: all this fulfilled in Christ as pictures and types of the one to come, but the expressed it through material until Jesus Christ was sent had come to establish the kingdom to reside with-in the believer, but also to let us know there is more than the material.

There is the spiritual, and I believe God abides in the kingdom; the heavenly Jerusalem what it looks like or how it feels to be there I don’t know but hopefully it will be one of comfort, peace, and joy to be with God.

Looking towards heavenly things and not reverting back to the law or anything which Jesus Christ fulfilled through and through.

Just desired to clarify this consideration.
 

ScottA

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Scott,

Have you ever heard about the Beast relating to Nero Ceaser?
I don't consider such things to be anything but types,just as Jesus said "Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." as more of an example of world authority rather than the world actually being under Satan.
 
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MatthewG

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I don't consider such things to be anything but types,just as Jesus said "Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." as more of an example of world authority rather than the world actually being under Satan.

Remember when Satan entered Judas?
 

MatthewG

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I don't consider such things to be anything but types,just as Jesus said "Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." as more of an example of world authority rather than the world actually being under Satan.

I am actually glad that you said something about either way, here is something to consider

Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six." Revelation 13:18 states that if one is wise and has an understanding to count the number of the beast, which is also the number of a man, the number comes to 666.

So a person can at least know that the beast had a number that would be able to identify a certain person in time, and from that point in time it would be Nero.

Thank you for making me go back and think. :)
 

ewq1938

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So a person can at least know that the beast had a number that would be able to identify a certain person in time, and from that point in time it would be Nero.

Nero's name does not add up to 666. That was falsified long ago to support the false claims of Preterism.
 
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MatthewG

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That is simply a conjecture on your part, ewq1938, thank you for sharing your thoughts on not believing that neros name doesnt add up to 666.

There are two beast in revelation on which represents Satan, then one that Represents a man, as shared with ScottA.

Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six." Revelation 13:18 states that if one is wise and has an understanding to count the number of the beast, which is also the number of a man, the number comes to 666.


Some may ask why didnt John just write out who it was, well if he did that an this letter fell into the wrong hands it would have not been good, that number of the beast was implicative of Nero, who was reigning in that day.
 

MatthewG

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The kings reigning in that day in age of Rome was the Ceasers, Nero was adopted into the family, he was the one reigning in that day in age when john wrote revelation, and sent it to the seven churches.

Revelation 17

New International Version

Babylon, the Prostitute on the Beast​

17 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery:
babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.
6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.
9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
 

MatthewG

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When Luke wrote the Gospel he wrote, he was a Gentile, he wrote his gospel after the Ascension of Christ, and in that day Tiberius Czaer, who was reigning.

So these historical evidences in my opinion really play a key part to really understanding and having a more firm grip on the bible, it's hard to sit and study these things out.
 

ewq1938

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That is simply a conjecture on your part, ewq1938, thank you for sharing your thoughts on not believing that neros name doesnt add up to 666.


No conjecture. His name does not add up to 666. That is merely a mathematical fact.
 
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MatthewG

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No conjecture. His name does not add up to 666. That is merely a mathematical fact.
That is fine, is there anything else that you would like to share. I am not going to sit here and go back and forth with you, you may believe whatever you are going to friend. :)
 

ewq1938

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Nero's real name was Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus and that doesn't add up to 666 in any language. Second problem is Nero Caesar only adds up to 666 if you take his Greek name and change it into Hebrew letters and use a Hebrew Gematria system instead of the Greek letters of his name and a Greek Gematria system (which is what John wrote Revelation in), AND you add the letter "n" to Nero to make Neron (which isn't his name either) because you need an extra 50 come to 666 ...suddenly none of this makes any real sense and looks contrived. He died in AD68 as well which means he wasn't alive during the AD70 destruction of the temple and thus cannot be the AC/AoD standing in the temple according to Preterist beliefs.

Nero obviously wasn't the 666 antichrist.
 

MatthewG

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Nero's real name was Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus and that doesn't add up to 666 in any language. Second problem is Nero Caesar only adds up to 666 if you take his Greek name and change it into Hebrew letters and use a Hebrew Gematria system instead of the Greek letters of his name and a Greek Gematria system (which is what John wrote Revelation in), AND you add the letter "n" to Nero to make Neron (which isn't his name either) because you need an extra 50 come to 666 ...suddenly none of this makes any real sense and looks contrived. He died in AD68 as well which means he wasn't alive during the AD70 destruction of the temple and thus cannot be the AC/AoD standing in the temple according to Preterist beliefs.

Nero obviously wasn't the 666 antichrist.

From my Perspective God used the Gentile nation to wipe out those in Jerusalem, Nero played a part in the context of history that I provided from Revelation Chapter 17, however for some reason many people just dismiss and do not go and try to prove themselves wrong on what they already believe anyway. Most believe Revelation has not happened yet, or they are in the middle of it waiting for Jesus to come back and wipe off all the evil in the world and have this world a utopia for a 1000 years, and then it ends? Then a general resurrection occurs, lots of confusion to me personally.

But yes, God used Rome, from my perspective, and Nero played part, but you know what I love you even if you do not accept my own perception and view, and may the Spirit of God help you on your journey if you decide to study and learn more about those things in your own life.

The abomination of desolation occurs in Jerusalem I believe what happened there is someone came by and erected a statue with-in the temple, and an uprising started with-in Jerusalem and a fallout began with-in it, (it been a little while on studying), then the siege happens and literally everything is destroyed, the famine got so bad people were eating their own children, pretty gruesome stuff went down in Jerusalem along with everything be set ablaze including the temple which concluded the very end of the Old Covenant, and instating the new covenant, which is where God writes on the hearts and minds of individuals, by the spirit.

Thank you for talking and sharing your own personal subjective thoughts about "Preterism beliefs".
 

MatthewG

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From my Perspective God used the Gentile nation to wipe out those in Jerusalem, Nero played a part in the context of history that I provided from Revelation Chapter 17, however for some reason many people just dismiss and do not go and try to prove themselves wrong on what they already believe anyway. Most believe Revelation has not happened yet, or they are in the middle of it waiting for Jesus to come back and wipe off all the evil in the world and have this world a utopia for a 1000 years, and then it ends? Then a general resurrection occurs, lots of confusion to me personally.

But yes, God used Rome, from my perspective, and Nero played part, but you know what I love you even if you do not accept my own perception and view, and may the Spirit of God help you on your journey if you decide to study and learn more about those things in your own life.

The abomination of desolation occurs in Jerusalem I believe what happened there is someone came by and erected a statue with-in the temple, and an uprising started with-in Jerusalem and a fallout began with-in it, (it been a little while on studying), then the siege happens and literally everything is destroyed, the famine got so bad people were eating their own children, pretty gruesome stuff went down in Jerusalem along with everything be set ablaze including the temple which concluded the very end of the Old Covenant, and instating the new covenant, which is where God writes on the hearts and minds of individuals, by the spirit.

Thank you for talking and sharing your own personal subjective thoughts about "Preterism beliefs".


Thinking about this, Egypt was destroyed in what was it 8 different instances or 7? There was the sea turning in to blood and the fish dying, the hail storm, the swarm of fleas, the swarm of frogs, and Moses finally was able to get out of their when God had separated the waters and the Jewish people escaped from Egypt and destroyed the ones going after this by closing up the split.

Then the exact opposite happens with Jerusalem being destroyed for the final time, in 70Ad, after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He totally replaced the temple, and now human beings are the temple of God who purse God in in faith. Why would the wrath of God be poured on the nation of Israel, because they asked for his blood to be on their hands.

Matthew 27:
22 “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, “Crucify him!”

23 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

24 When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

25 All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

26 Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.