Divine Justification: greatly misunderstood or greatly misrepresented

[CharismaticLady]

Thanks for clearing that up. I prefer some posts to be invisible to me, hence the amusing perplexity.


Of course we are justified by grace through faith. No faith = no grace = no justification.

@Enoch111 Seeing as he has be on ignore, ask him his definition of grace.

BTW I love your misapplication of 1 John 1:8 onto a Christian when the next verse is how to become a Christian and to be cleansed of ALL unrighteous. The Good News Translation as no problem understanding that 8 and 9 go together.

6 If, then, we say that we have fellowship with him, yet at the same time live in the darkness, we are lying both in our words and in our actions. 7 But if we live in the light—just as he is in the light—then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from every sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make a liar out of God, and his word is not in us.

He is saying like Paul said of mankind, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We need the blood of Christ to cleanse us of sin.

 

[Enoch111]

Amazing what you can find when you become a seeker of holiness, and not a justifier of sin.

This remark shows that you have no clue about justification by grace through faith. God is not a justifier of sin, and neither is any genuine Christian. But God and Christ hate hypocrisy, and when anyone claims that they are sinless, they are simply being hypocrites.

God justifies the ungodly solely and purely on the basis of the finished redemptive work of Christ (in His death, burial, and resurrection). It is solely and purely by the grace of God that sinners receive the robe of the righteousness of Christ through "imputation". God sees them as perfect in Christ. But that is not a license to sin. We are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12).

 

[Enoch111]

Because it should be clear that the Lord justifieth the ungodly (Romans 4:5) but that in doing so He does not leave them in an ungodly state.

This is where repentance, regeneration, and walking in the Spirit come into effect. The Bible says that is any man is in Christ he is a new creature or creation. Old things have passed away, and all things have become new. Therefore Christians are urged to renew their minds also.

 

[Taken]

Divine Justification: greatly misunderstood or greatly misrepresented
OP ^

Agree.

Beginning (written) OT Scripture, and later (written) NT Scripture provided mankind with a "FIXED OBJECTIVE STANDARD", (of Knowledge) not to be interpreted (define the understanding) by mankind.

FOR Centuries...FEW men Could Read or Write...and Depended on other men who Could Read.

For Centuries, men who could NOT READ, were filled with wonderings and ASKING questions...HOW CAN this or that BE SO.

For centuries, For Generations...men, "colluded"..."devised Common agreements", to TEACH, the SAME "answers", To the questions of the ILLITERATE.

And? As men became LITERATE, and PRINTED Copies of Scripture became Available, and men began reading for THEMSELVES...they DISCOVERED a Centuries Long HOAX.
What they had been Taught...was NOT according to Scripture....and the Challenge to the "generational" Teachers, Became A great Division among men.

The Division...from that day to this Continues.

The Challenge (TO the Teachers) from that day to this day...IS exactly the SAME.

The "teachers"...Response in THAT day?
First ignore.
Challengers persisted.
Next listen to challengers.
Declare the challengers WRONG.
(Based on what?)
Based on "THEIR positioned Authority".
But, but, but...Scripture does NOT verify what the "teacher has said".
Hush...you challengers are WRONG.
Hush...Scripture ALONE is not Necessary.
Hush..."we" (teachers), have Authority OVER "you" (challengers).
Trust "us"...Period.

Ya well, That initself is hogwash.
A man is taught to Believe IN and Trust God.
A "teacher" whose words cannot be "verified", in Scripture is not worthy to Trust.

However...while Reading, writing, availability of Bibles, and Ownership of Bibles Has increased exponentially...
Men Actually READING Scripture...is embarrassingly statically Low.

Thus the Divide Thrives.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

It is solely and purely by the grace of God that sinners receive the robe of the righteousness of Christ through "imputation". God sees them as perfect in Christ.

Righteousness is not only positionally imputed; but it is also practically imparted (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6)...by extension Hebrews 10:14 (kjv).

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12).

How? This is the part of grace you don't understand.

 

[marks]

Thanks for clearing that up. I prefer some posts to be invisible to me, hence the amusing perplexity.

That happens to me too!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay. I just have seen too many false doctrines from jbgtf that has led to some really liberal "Christians." I prefer teaching on sinlessness through the power of the Spirit, because without holiness, no man shall see God. That gives room for no straglers, or those in Matthew 7:21-23

This is false teaching itself

if we say we have no sin we decieved ourselves. Teaching one can be sinless is teaching one to be deceived

we are holy because he is holy. We will not be glorified until our death, until then we are being sanctified, while we are perfected by that one sacrifice.

 

[marks]

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

It's interesting in looking at how this translation changes what John wrote.

1 John 1:8-9 KJV
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

GN: He will keep his promise and do what is right
KJV: He is faithful and just

The Good News translation changes the text to be about what God does. The KJV is faithful to the original in telling us about God Himself.

This is a good example of why I prefer the KJV.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hullo! Is anyone there? What's this about consistently misinterpreting . . .me? As if . . .

He is not responding to you, you must have charismatic lady on ignore

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When we believe that Jesus is the only Savior from our sins, justification is what happens when we repent unto Him of our sin NATURE, and declare the fact that try as we might we cannot be holy and keep the laws of God (Romans 7:14-23). That honesty called integrity of heart must be there and we have the faith that God is stronger than we are and need Him to make it possible for us to truly be holy. That is when He baptizes us with the divine power of grace called the baptism of the Spirit. He gives us this divine power when we are sinners to solve the problem from Adam's sin. Instantly, all our past sins we've ever committed are wiped away and we are cleansed of their stain. But further, He gives us a brand new nature free from the sin nature of our old nature and separates the two. As we then walk in the Spirit we do not sin for the desire to sin is gone. We must never quench the Spirit and go back to our old nature that used to willfully sin - like a dog going back to lick up his own vomit.

If only our past sins are forgiven, we have no hope the next time we sin, because Jesus paid for sins 2000 years ago, which means any future sins are unredeemable

 

[marks]

If only our past sins are forgiven, we have no hope the next time we sin, because Jesus paid for sins 2000 years ago, which means any future sins are unredeemable

Not only that . . . this idea that rebirth makes you sinless, it makes moot many parts of the Bible.

Some of the, imo, key doctrines of living the Christian life become superfluous.

Put off the old man and put on the new. Offer yourself a living sacrifice. Mortify your members which are upon the earth. We have an advocate with the Father. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. I could go on and on.

We are recreated holy and righteous, and we live in corrupt flesh, and these are in conflict.

Justification is the Biblical term for rendering us righteous, judicially and by nature, by separating us from our flesh. But not removing us from our flesh, and not by transforming our flesh - yet!

Much love!

 

[marks]

If only our past sins are forgiven, we have no hope the next time we sin, because Jesus paid for sins 2000 years ago, which means any future sins are unredeemable

I agree! What's been done is done, and it is efficacious or it's not. All our sins were future to the cross!

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree! What's been done is done, and it is efficacious or it's not. All our sins were future to the cross!

Much love!

Yes, it amazes me who want to begin in the spirit and perfect in the flesh.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is false teaching itself

if we say we have no sin we decieved ourselves. Teaching one can be sinless is teaching one to be deceived

we are holy because he is holy. We will not be glorified until our death, until then we are being sanctified, while we are perfected by that one sacrifice.

We are holy because we are born again of HIS SPIRIT empowering us. God isn't making fake Christians, but those LIKE His Son.

The problem with those with your defeatist teaching is you have no idea of the POWER OF GOD.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If only our past sins are forgiven, we have no hope the next time we sin, because Jesus paid for sins 2000 years ago, which means any future sins are unredeemable

Those who keep sinning have never been born again, so if you sin, you still have hope to BECOME a true Christian. It is not too late. You cannot become righteous in the flesh. Our nature must die and become born again. 2 Peter 1:9 says that our old sins (only) are cleansed. We are suppose to be empowered to not sin again. We MUST be born again of the Spirit of Christ. Otherwise we do not belong to Him. Romans 8:9

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's interesting in looking at how this translation changes what John wrote.

1 John 1:8-9 KJV
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

GN: He will keep his promise and do what is right
KJV: He is faithful and just

The Good News translation changes the text to be about what God does. The KJV is faithful to the original in telling us about God Himself.

This is a good example of why I prefer the KJV.

Much love!

I can understand the KJV, but prefer the NKJV, even with a few faults. At least, it has all of God's word and doesn't cut off vital conditions like in Romans 8:1. Compare NKJV and NASB.

However, there are still those who need a little help understanding God's Word, and the Good News helps those who are ignorant. I know my understanding was helped by the Living Bible, and compared some sections that blew my mind with the NKJV and found it was a section I never understood before (being ignorant). Now I do, and the understanding brought other parts of the Bible alive too.

When the truth becomes alive, you can't be fooled into thinking that 1 John 1:8 is about a Christian. It just isn't possible. You have to look deeper to see what is actually being meant. The answer? All mankind has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and needs the next verse to become a Christian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are holy because we are born again of HIS SPIRIT empowering us. God isn't making fake Christians, but those LIKE His Son.

The problem with those with your defeatist teaching is you have no idea of the POWER OF GOD.

I believe in the power of God

I also believe in reality, if being born again made everyone sinless, there would never be a babe in Christ, like the corinthian church who still struggled with certain besetting sins, paul would also not say he co it used to run the race because he had nothing achieved it yet

What saddens me is you ignore paul when he speaks about those who attempt to perfect their salvation in the flesh, and you appear to be just like the,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those who keep sinning have never been born again, so if you sin, you still have hope to BECOME a true Christian. It is not too late. You cannot become righteous in the flesh. Our nature must die and become born again. 2 Peter 1:9 says that our old sins (only) are cleansed. We are suppose to be empowered to not sin again. We MUST be born again of the Spirit of Christ. Otherwise we do not belong to Him. Romans 8:9

You need to look inside, stop excusing your sin and watering down the law. And get on your knees maam.

 

[marks]

However, there are still those who need a little help understanding God's Word, and the Good News helps those who are ignorant.

Personally I think these sorts of changes do more to confuse the issues.

Much love!