Do "good", non-Christians, go to Heaven to be with God when they die or do they remain in the grave awaiting the resurrection?

[Patrick1966]

Then those who died faithful to Jesus are resurrected and go to heaven

Isn't everyone resurrected HERE on this Earth and then don't we all go to the new Earth?

 

[bbyrd009]

I replied to the question, "Do "good", non-Christians, go to Heaven to be with God when they die or do they remain in the grave awaiting the resurrection?"

yes, i was there, ‘member? And then i suggested that you could not Quote that, and then you started the shuckandjive. Or i mean maybe you can Quote that, i dunno; here’s your (2nd) opp!

 

[bbyrd009]

Isn't everyone resurrected HERE on this Earth and then don't we all go to the new Earth?

well, can you Quote that?

 

[bbyrd009]

The first person to be resurrected and go into heaven was Jesus Christ. Then those who died faithful to Jesus are resurrected and go to heaven during the second presence of Jesus Christ. This would include Jesus apostles and disciples.

nope, sorry
sounds fun tho, huh
it is a self-centered, navel-gazing, cult of sol fantasy, which you would know (for a fact; you like fax, right) if you had read your Bible, or not cut out half of it, or whatevs
now Quote or go home—“those who died faithful to Jesus are resurrected and go to heaven during the second presence of Jesus Christ,” just one single time, and i will cease torturing you k

 

[bbyrd009]

(y’all keep your hand on your wallet lol)

 

[bbyrd009]

Hell obviously.

can you Quote that, one, single, time?

 

[Davy]

Isn't everyone resurrected HERE on this Earth and then don't we all go to the new Earth?

No, for that is the old Jewish tradition of the 'dead in the ground' doctrine from men. The only thing that goes into the ground is the flesh body. God made us with a spirit and a soul also, which does not go into the ground, but returns back to Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

No, for that is the old Jewish tradition of the 'dead in the ground' doctrine from men. The only thing that goes into the ground is the flesh body. God made us with a spirit and a soul also, which does not go into the ground, but returns back to Him.

swing/miss, maam
least on the “soul” part
or i mean, CAN YOU QUOTE THAT, ONE, SINGLE, TIME?

 

[bbyrd009]

wolves in sheep’s clothes, the bunch of ya

 

[Aunty Jane]

Isn't everyone resurrected HERE on this Earth and then don't we all go to the new Earth?

There are two resurrections Patrick....a "first resurrection" is for Christ's elect who will go to heaven and rule with Jesus for 1000 years. (Rev 20:6) and then there is the general resurrection of the dead where Jesus will resurrect all the righteous and unrighteous dead who are still in their graves. (John 5:28-29) When the "kingdom" comes, only then can God's will can be "done on earth as it is in heaven." The answer is in the Lord's Prayer.....most people rattle it off without understanding what they are praying for.....but with the 'coming' of the Kingdom, God's will is reinstated for earth's inhabitants, who have lived and died for thousands of years, never having lived the life that God planned for us in the beginning.

Humans were supposed to live on earth forever, never having to die, to grow old or to get sick....God's creation was without defect....and the means to extend life indefinitely was there in the garden...."the tree of life"...partaking of this tree would allow a mortal human to "live forever". (Gen 3:22-24)

Unfortunately, Adam yielded to satan's temptation, forcing him to divide his loyalties. He had to choose between obeying his God, or obeying his wife.....he chose badly and now we are all paying for what he did. (Rom 5:12)

Adam threw us all under the bus by his disobedience, but Christ came to buy back what Adam threw away....giving his life for ours.
God's first purpose will yet be realized (Isaiah 55:11) and a "new heavens" will rule over a "new earth". Then we will see how God intended for us to enjoy his creation and all its wonders for all time to come.

Revelation 21:2-4 says....read it carefully....
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

This is the promise.....The "holy city" is God's heavenly Kingdom.....its rulers are the "bride of Christ" (his elect).....and they will bring God's rulership to "MAN" here on this beautifully prepared earth, and all the things that cause pain and suffering will be removed from our lives. Satan will be in a dim dark prison for the duration of the Kingdom's rule. (Rev 20:1-3) so there will be no interference from him and his demons....and after mankind is brought back to perfection, satan will be let loose "for a little while" to test the faith of the untested....those who died before Christ and never knew about him, or the God he came to represent.

The faithful ones of old will likely be the first to be raised, and these will be interested in what has transpired in their absence. They will be amazed to read about themselves......Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and others all listed in Hebrews 11.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Isn't everyone resurrected HERE on this Earth and then don't we all go to the new Earth?

It's true that those who will be the subjects of the kingdom of God, those resurrected who are righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected on earth
However the phrase, New Earth, doesn't mean God is destroying this planet and creating another planet that is called the New Earth. In the scriptures at 2 Peter 3:5-7 it says, "For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

At 2 Peter 3:7 Peter says in part, the heavens and earth that now exist. So Peter is teaching us that there was a heaven and earth destroyed during Noah's day but it wasn't the heaven that the birds fly in that was destroyed nor wasn't it the planet earth that was destroyed because this planet earth we're living on is the same planet earth Noah lived on.

Scripture has taught us that the word heavens can refer to YHWH God in his sovereign position. So, when Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that the experience the Babylonian emperor was due to have would make him “know that the heavens are ruling,” it meant the same as knowing “that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind.” (Daniel 4:25, 26)

However, aside from scripture referencing the Supreme Sovereign, the term “heavens” can also refer to other ruling powers that are exalted or lifted up above their subject peoples. The very dynasty of Babylonian kings that Nebuchadnezzar represented is described at Isaiah 14:12 as being starlike, a “shining one, son of the dawn.” By the conquest of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., that Babylonian dynasty lifted its throne “above the stars of God,” these “stars” referring to the Davidic line of Judean kings (even as the Heir to the Davidic throne, Christ Jesus, is called “the bright morning star” at Revelation 22:16; compare Numbers 24:17). By its overthrow of the divinely authorized Davidic throne, the Babylonian dynasty, in effect, exalted itself heaven high. (Isaiah 14:13, 14) This lofty grandeur and far-reaching dominion were also represented in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream by a symbolic tree with its height ‘reaching the heavens.’ (Daniel 4:20-22)


So the connection of the “heavens” with ruling power aids in understanding the meaning of the expression “new heavens and a new earth” found at Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 and quoted by the apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13. Observing such relationship, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891, Vol. IV, p. 122) comments: “In Isaiah lxv, 17, a new heaven and a new earth signify a new government, new kingdom, new people.”

Even as the “earth” can refer to a society of people (Psalm 96:1), so, too, “heavens” can symbolize the superior ruling power or government over such “earth.” The prophecy presenting the promise of “new heavens and a new earth,” given through Isaiah, was one dealing initially with the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile. Upon the Israelites’ return to their homeland, they entered into a new system of things. Cyrus the Great was used prominently by God in bringing about that restoration. Back in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) served as governor, and Joshua as high priest. In harmony with Jehovah’s purpose, this new governmental arrangement, or “new heavens,” directed and supervised the subject people. (2 Chronicles 36:23; Haggai 1:1, 14) By that means, as verse 18 of Isaiah chapter 65 foretold, Jerusalem became “a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation.”

So the point I'm making is that yes, those that will be subjects of the kingdom of God the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected on this planet earth we're living on. But this planet earth we're living on God will turn into a paradise as he intended from the beginning.This planet after being changed into a paradise earth will exist for eternity. So this planet earth one day will be a paradise with sinless human beings living g on it for eternity. No human being will grow old and die, be cause death will be no more. Wars, hunger, illness, people who are homeless, all will be eliminated.

Scripture also teaches us that from faithful mankind God will choose 144000 who will be kings, priests, and judges who will be in heaven with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom. Jesus Christ along with the 144000 corulers in this heavenly Messianic kingdom will be the new heaven that will rule over those on earth that are the subjects of the kingdom of God. When these that God has chosen to be kings and priests and judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic Kingdom are resurrected they are resurrected with immortal incorruptible spirit bodies.

 

[Aunty Jane]

wolves in sheep’s clothes, the bunch of ya

Look in the mirror....everyone is wrong, but you have no clue as to what is right....you are a fine one to give comments about things you know nothing about..... If you don't know what is right, how can you condemn others as wrong? What if you are the one who is wrong and are fighting the ones trying to tell you a truth that you do not want?

now Quote or go home—“those who died faithful to Jesus are resurrected and go to heaven during the second presence of Jesus Christ,” just one single time, and i will cease torturing you k

1 Thess 4:13-17......
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Those who had died were "asleep" in their graves. In keeping with what Jesus said about Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

"we who are alive who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep." So those alive when Jesus returned will not go to heaven before those ones who are in their graves, "sleeping". When Jesus arrived he would call those who "died in Christ" (his elect) and these would "rise first". THEN we who are alive", (those of the elect remaining when Jesus returned) will not have to "sleep in death" but will be raised immediately and transformed into spirit beings in order to go to their heavenly assignment.

Before "the end" of this present system of world rulership (Armageddon) Christ will have been "present" for quite some time, separating the 'sheep from the goats' based on their response to the greatest preaching campaign the world will ever see, (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20) and because he has already resurrected those who slept, he will bring them all with him for the judgment.

 

[Jack]

can you Quote that, one, single, time?

I've quoted many verses. You didn't see them or didn't want to see them?

Luke 16 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

 

[bbyrd009]

I've quoted many verses. You didn't see them or didn't want to see them?

Luke 16 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

unfort there are problems with that, Jack, but id like to open here by saying you might be right, and i dont know, ok. But Hades’ (a Greek god, btw) mythology has no “torture” in it, “torture” might be xlated differently, “Lazarus” is the Greek way to say “Eleazar,” he is supposedly bathed in flames but wants a drop of water on his tongue? and it is a parable, after all?

meaning that believers—in my experience at least—frequently Quote parables to reinforce their point, rather than the point of the parable, as you may have done here

 

[Taken]

Do "good", non-Christians, go to Heaven to be with God when they die or do they remain in the grave awaiting the resurrection?​

OP ^

A mans Belief “IN” Jesus (at the time of his mortal bodily death)
That man God shall bring (raise up in a new body) WITH Him.
AFTER Christ’s millennial reign.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

A mans Belief and Confession...“IN” CHRIST Jesus (at ANY time his mortal body IS mortally ALIVE).
That man The Lord Shall RAISE UP to Him (in a new body, up to the clouds) WITH Him,
BEFORE: Gods Tribulation is SENT Down from Heaven upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Belief IN Jesus until mortal death, a man shall be saved at mortal death, and raise up BY God in a new body, After the millennial reign.

Belief IN Christ Jesus, and Confession of Belief IN Christ Jesus, a mortal man becomes SAV-ED THEN, and shall be risen UP in a new body, BY the Lord, BEFORE Gods Tribulation.

* There are “NO” good, non-Believers.

God created AND Made His creations and makings....VERY GOOD.
Man REMAINED ... VERY GOOD ... until man stopped listening, trusting, believing, obeying GODS WORD.

From that mans SEED, every offspring became in the Likeness of that mans SEED....ie NOT VERY GOOD.

* A man WHO, by agreeing, submitting to, and accepting Gods Offering,
According to Gods.....Order and Way....

* Becomes a SOUL, made (by the Power of God)....RESTORED.

* RESTORATION, is MAKING what WAS very good, which became corrupted, BACK to “VERY GOOD”.

* A man Rejecting BELIEF, Rejecting Confessing BELIEF........
IS NOT a Candidate FOR soul Restoration BACK to VERY GOOD.

* A man NOT a Candidate....FOR soul Restoration REMAINS a “not very good” soul AGAINST the Lord God.

Pss 23:
CAVEAT: (IF, the LORD...IS your shepherd...AND you submit to Him...)
Gods Order and Way...

[3] He restoreth my soul:

A mans soul that is NOT Restored;
Does NOT take part in the Lords resurrection.
Does NOT take part in Gods First resurrection.
DOES take part in Gods Second resurrection, to Receive his just reward for works he did AGAINST the Lord God; to Receive his judgement, to Receive his sentence (consequence).
^^ That Consequence IS: the LIFE IN that soul returns to God, and that LIFELESS body and LIFELESS soul is burned to Ash in Lake of Fire, IN Hell, and remembered no more.

 

[Taken]

unfort there are problems with that, Jack, but id like to open here by saying you might be right, and i dont know, ok. But Hades’ (a Greek god, btw) mythology has no “torture” in it, “torture” might be xlated differently, “Lazarus” is the Greek way to say “Eleazar,” he is supposedly bathed in flames but wants a drop of water on his tongue? and it is a parable, after all?

meaning that believers—in my experience at least—frequently Quote parables to reinforce their point, rather than the point of the parable, as you may have done here

Body’s come from the earth. The body has the same minerals and water, that are IN the Earth, thus the Earth’s contents, water pockets and minerals sustain a Body’s Life. (Which a body’s life is its Blood).

Souls are gifts from God, and contain Gods Breath of Life. A soul depends on Gods Breath to maintain it’s LIFE.

Spirit of man is yet another aspect. A natural spirit of man IS man natural truth IN his heart....(not his Carnal mind, that can trick, deceive, lie, change its truth back and forth).
When God give a man “GODS SPIRIT OF TRUTH”, that is the basics of God changing that man NATURAL TRUTH (born out of a mans seed), to Gods Spirit of Truth (born out of Gods Seed)...who IS Christ.

When a mortal body dies......it is buried in the dirt from whence it came.
When a mortal body dies...the Living soul with Gods Breath of Life, departs the body and......?
1) IF saved...is escorted to Heaven to God who gave that soul His Breath of Life, and the BODY of the man .... Believed.
2) IF not saved....is sent to Hell to Wait separated from God, until the day of that souls Judgement.

Hebrews, Tribesmen (aka ISRAEL)
And
Greeks, Romans, whatever (aka GENTILES)

Each had their OWN words and IDEAS of “WHAT becomes of a mans SOUL after the FLESH BODY IS DEAD, buried in the ground and ROTTING”....

Each had their OWN words and IDEAS of “AN UNDERWORLD” IN the EARTH, where DEPARTED LIVING SOULS would Go...and Be Separated from God.

Each had their OWN words and IDEAS TO “Describe” what they Believed...
Living Souls would be Experiencing IN the “underworld” of Departed Living souls.

ISRAEL;
* Sheol....an unpleasant place of departed living souls deep in the Earth..
* Grave...a place to bury dead body’s, or a place of departed living souls deep in the Earth.
* Paradise...a pleasant WAITING place of departed living souls deep in the Earth; separated from Sheol, by a great fixed Gulf of water. WAITING for the Messiah’s Living soul to descend to Paradise, then rise up from Paradise and take with Him (on his return to Heaven...Paradise, and the saved Living souls WITH Him). The NOW waiting IN “Paradise” IN Heaven, WITH God, until their body’s are raise up.
(BTW Paradise IS WHERE the Tree of Life IS, that sustains the Life of the Soul.
Paradise was First, in the Garden of Eden, then in Hell, now in Heaven, and Shall be returned to Gods “new” Earth)
* The Valley of Hinnom, Is a place near, but outside of Jerusalem. It was a Garbage, Feces Dumping ground for the city of Jerusalem. It has constant burning and dirt movement to cover the smells. It was ALSO a Place, SOME men USED to Sacrifice burn alive children. The FIRES, The SCREAMS, The STENCH (which burning human hair and flesh and dead body’s ARE a putrid, gagging smell) ...
The Valley of Hinnom, became an Israelites IMAGINATION of what Sheol would be Like for a departed Living soul to experience.

GREEK (Gentiles)
* Hades...an unpleasant place deep in the earth for departed living souls to go and experience the separation from God.
* Gehenna....a Greek interpretation of the Valley of Hinnom, with the same concept of Imagination of what the Underworld of Hades would be Like.

ENGLISH...(Gentiles)
* Hell...an unpleasant place deep in the earth for (unsaved) departed living souls to go and experience separation from God, and wait for Judgement and Eternal Sentencing for rejecting the Lord God.
* The imagination of the unpleasantness WHAT HELL is Like...IS every Sense of Communication...a Living Body experienced while Alive...the Departed Living Soul, (IN HELL) shall experience....
* While the body’s ears, eyes, nose, mouth, tongue, flesh IS DEAD and Rotting....
* The Living SOUL, continues hearing, seeing, smelling, uttering sounds, tasting, feeling..........AND:
** A Saved soul IN Heaven....hears, sees, smells, utters sounds, tastes, feels....THAT which is Good and Pleasant.
** An UN-Saved soul IN Hell...hears, sees, smells, utters sounds, tastes, feels...THAT which is extremely Unpleasant.

Verified via Jesus own Teaching...Luke Chapter 16.


And PARABLES, is precisely How it was foretold The Messiah would Teach, Preach, Reveals secrets not before KNOWN.


Some people believe PARABLES are clever little MADE UP stories to make a POINT.

Some other people believe....it matters NOT what manner (parable, bedtime stories, fables, speech, commentary, preaching, whatever the manner of the Word delivery is called)....
Jesus IS the word of Truth, and whatever He uttered out of His MOUTH, IS TRUE...period.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keturah]

All the blessings & promises of God in his word are to  ONLY those that believe, repent, accept salvation and continually walk in faith & obedience to his Spirit & his word.

Non believers, even good ones are rejecters and are against God & will receive his just judgment @ TGWT

 

[n2thelight]

Do "good", non-Christians, go to Heaven to be with God when they die or do they remain in the grave awaiting the resurrection?

All return to the Father at death, saint and sinner alike. Nobody is in the grave , at death or the return of Christ whichever comes first we are changed back to where we were before entering into the flesh

 

[n2thelight]

Luke 16
The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

NOT A PARABLE!

Thank you, be saying this for years .Ain't nobody coming out of a grave

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do "good", non-Christians, go to Heaven to be with God when they die or do they remain in the grave awaiting the resurrection?

You have shocked me very much with your question…! How have you escaped the indoctrination? Do you not go to a church? What makes you think “good“ nonChristians are not cast into fire as the indoctrination teaches? You’ve blown my mind a bit here brother! It’s like I’ve run across a very rare and almost extinct animal.
Its 1 am here and I’m fading, but I will come back tomorrow to read and maybe talk with you.