Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[ChristisGod]

The Holy Spirit guides us all, to the extent we are willing to follow, but none of us is perfect.

Not in the same way as the divinely inspired Apostle’s. Do you raise the dead like they did ?

They are also the foundation of the church , believers are not . Read Ephesians 2 and 4

 

[Bob Estey]

Not in the same way as the divinely inspired Apostle’s. Do you raise the dead like they did ?

They are also the foundation of the church , believers are not . Read Ephesians 2 and 4

We are all divinely inspired - if we listen to the Lord.

 

[ChristisGod]

We are all divinely inspired - if we listen to the Lord.

No your words are not scripture. The Apostle’s were .

 

[Bob Estey]

No your words are not scripture. The Apostle’s were .

You give then God-like status. They weren't Gods.

 

[ChristisGod]

You give then God-like status. They weren't Gods.

Their writings / teachings were inspired.

 

[Bob Estey]

Their writings / teachings were inspired.

Most of it.

 

[charity]

We are all led by the Spirit of God, to the extent that we are willing to follow, but none of us is perfect.

'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Ti 3:16-17)

Hello @Bob Estey,

This discussion is not about OUR willingness or lack of it to be led by the Spirit of God: but about Peter, Paul, Jude, James and John, Matthew, Mark and Luke, who were all inspired by God to write what they did. As were those who compiled them into the New Testament record. The Bible is a work of God from beginning to end. You either believe that or you do not. I do.

Jesus said:-
'It is the Spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.'
(Joh 6:63)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Mink57]

Most of it.

I believe this, too.

In 1 Corinthians 7: 10, Paul began the verse by saying, "To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord):..."
In other words, the words that follow what's in parenthesis are (close to) what the Lord has instructed.

However, in 1 Corinthians 7: 12, Paul began the verse by saying, "To the rest I say, (not the Lord):.."
So, Paul is making the distinction between what Jesus has said and his own opinion.

I suspect that Paul has given us his opinion on other matters.

When Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:12: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man.", I believe we have to look at 1 Timothy 2:8 first. In 2:8, Paul begins by saying, "It is my wish then... ." I don't believe that he's commanding that women shouldn't teach/have authority over men. He's stating what he does; not necessarily what everyone else should do.

 

[Bob Estey]

'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Ti 3:16-17)

Hello @Bob Estey,

This discussion is not about OUR willingness or lack of it to be led by the Spirit of God: but about Peter, Paul, Jude, James and John, Matthew, Mark and Luke, who were all inspired by God to write what they did. As were those who compiled them into the New Testament record. The Bible is a work of God from beginning to end. You either believe that or you do not. I do.

Jesus said:-
'It is the Spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.'
(Joh 6:63)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Paul's words are a self-fulfilling prophecy, aren't they?

 

[reformed1689]

Many would agree with you.

Including Scripture

 

[reformed1689]

I will take it on faith that the letters attributed to Paul are Paul's letters.

And that is not the question is it? The question is ARE THEY SCRIPTURE? Why do you shy away from answering this question. It is a simple yes or no.

 

[Bob Estey]

And that is not the question is it? The question is ARE THEY SCRIPTURE? Why do you shy away from answering this question. It is a simple yes or no.

Because I don't know how you define scripture. Didn't I ask you to define scripture for me?

 

[reformed1689]

Because I don't know how you define scripture. Didn't I ask you to define scripture for me?

Scripture is the word of God.

 

[ChristisGod]

Scripture is the word of God.

Amen !

 

[ChristisGod]

And that is not the question is it? The question is ARE THEY SCRIPTURE? Why do you shy away from answering this question. It is a simple yes or no.

Yes its ironic how Paul gets attacked when he was hand picked by Jesus on the road to Damascus and he wrote half of our New Testament and his writings form most of our doctrines in Christendom. Talk about being blind to the truth.

 

[reformed1689]

Yes its ironic how Paul gets attacked when he was hand picked by Jesus on the road to Damascus and he wrote half of our New Testament and his writings form most of our doctrines in Christendom. Talk about being blind to the truth.

It's more of rebellion. People want to have an a la carte Scripture. Take what you like and leave the rest.

 

[ChristisGod]

It's more of rebellion. People want to have an a la carte Scripture. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Yes I can see that reading that from several posters.

 

[robert derrick]

Paul says women aren't supposed to speak in churches. Are you refuting Paul?

Not Paul, you.

You are not Paul nor a teacher of what Paul wrote, not with the Spirit that gave it to Paul anyway.

So, if a woman asks where the ladies room is, what do you do? Tell her to shut up while pointing the way? Or do you just put your finger to your lips at her like to a little child?

I'm wondering if you obey all Scripture according to the letter as you love to do here? Or are you just a Pharisee hypocrite that reads the letter only in some places for women, but gives a wide spiritual berth in others for yourself?

The letter only, without the Spirit, kills. We ought be ministering the letter with the Spirit.

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

You have no spiritual sense of the letters written, and so you have no common sense when trying to teach it.

I would not ever teach that the Lord tells women to shut up while assembling in His name, nor can they ever prophesy and minister to others.

Or is it just the holiness of a building that is not to be defiled by the speech of women? Or do you only acknowledge an assembling together, when it is in a building planned for that purpose? Are you so carnal, that you only assemble in His name in a building made for that purpose? You must be, sense you have no spiritual sense whatsoever of the letters you quote.

What if the assembling together is of women only? They just sit or stand and look at one another? Do they use hand signals? Should women only use hand signals in the assembling of the saints?

Testifying and witnessing of Christ to one another is the ministry of Christ: no woman therefore should ever testify of Christ in any assembling of the churches, whether in a building or not?

I know you don't recognize what an assembly of two or three in His name is, when not planned, but that is indeed the church and body of Christ speaking in His name. So, once a Christian woman realizing that an assembling of witnesses is occurring, they should immediately shut up?

A woman can never ever testify of Christ to any other person, lest she speaks in an assembly of believers?

I don't really care about your twisted attitude about women, like some carnal Jew of old and today. I just don't like reading stupid taught for doctrine of Christ by people with a twisted reading of the letters only without the Spirit.

No, I am not refuting Paul, but I certainly am disgusted at your pretense of teaching the law of Christ.

And no, I am not seeking to correct you, because no one can possibly believe what you are saying about Scripture, and be correctible.

 

[Naomanos]

I've pretty much backed out of this since I am learning to keep how my fiance and I will run our marriage to myself. People do not need to know every detail of my life.

 

[Mink57]

Not Paul, you.

You are not Paul nor a teacher of what Paul wrote, not with the Spirit that gave it to Paul anyway.

So, if a woman asks where the ladies room is, what do you do? Tell her to shut up while pointing the way? Or do you just put your finger to your lips at her like to a little child?

I'm wondering if you obey all Scripture according to the letter as you love to do here? Or are you just a Pharisee hypocrite that reads the letter only in some places for women, but gives a wide spiritual berth in others for yourself?

The letter only, without the Spirit, kills. We ought be ministering the letter with the Spirit.

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

You have no spiritual sense of the letters written, and so you have no common sense when trying to teach it.

I would not ever teach that the Lord tells women to shut up while assembling in His name, nor can they ever prophesy and minister to others.

Or is it just the holiness of a building that is not to be defiled by the speech of women? Or do you only acknowledge an assembling together, when it is in a building planned for that purpose? Are you so carnal, that you only assemble in His name in a building made for that purpose? You must be, sense you have no spiritual sense whatsoever of the letters you quote.

What if the assembling together is of women only? They just sit or stand and look at one another? Do they use hand signals? Should women only use hand signals in the assembling of the saints?

Testifying and witnessing of Christ to one another is the ministry of Christ: no woman therefore should ever testify of Christ in any assembling of the churches, whether in a building or not?

I know you don't recognize what an assembly of two or three in His name is, when not planned, but that is indeed the church and body of Christ speaking in His name. So, once a Christian woman realizing that an assembling of witnesses is occurring, they should immediately shut up?

A woman can never ever testify of Christ to any other person, lest she speaks in an assembly of believers?

I don't really care about your twisted attitude about women, like some carnal Jew of old and today. I just don't like reading stupid taught for doctrine of Christ by people with a twisted reading of the letters only without the Spirit.

No, I am not refuting Paul, but I certainly am disgusted at your pretense of teaching the law of Christ.

And no, I am not seeking to correct you, because no one can possibly believe what you are saying about Scripture, and be correctible.

Completely agree!

If only people would read the Bible in the spirit of the law, instead of by the letter of the law, they'd be reading a completely different Bible!

And I do believe that's what Jesus was trying to teach us all along...