Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

[richard79408]

Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

When you look at the gospels up to the cross--we find Jesus teaching the Mosaic law to that lost generation of Jews. Not only are they lost but they are also the last generation of the Jews.

For instance, the jews taught that if they choose to decide that their parents are a gift from God--then they don't have to accept the gift. This comes out of the 613 man make scribal laws. Jesus combats this with the actual teaching of the Law itself.

When you begin to read looking at this--it shows up all over the place. It isn't that they did not know the law i.e. Matt 19:3-9 because they did. They just did not follow the law. And because of that they were [a] the last generation of Jews and they were dead--separated from God by their sin--as were the Gentiles.

Richard79408

 

[richard79408]

Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Since is America's day of Independence--I suggest a test.One way to get at the title of this topic is to use your mind. There are going to be problems though since our mind is trained in the wrong way when it comes to the division of scripture.

So open your bible--mentally remove the title page that comes after Malachi and before Matthew. Why? Because in 1486 the RCC inserted this page into the bible and it has been causing a lot of division ever since.

Ok now that you are prepared--Ask yourself where did God divide the scriptures separating the Old from the New? When reading the scriptures where does that division occur?

Having problems? Try this--go here-

http://rgfheart.com/cov/2/ and choose the first item on the left at the top in the navigation bar. The man who did this did a lot of research

So, where did God make the division in scripture?

Richard79408

 

[veteran]

OK then, since we have some here that believe God's law is now dead, and it no longer applies to us as Christians, then I have to ask...

1. Is it OK for the Christian to commit murder? If not, then where does our Christian standard against doing that originate?

2. are we to love our neighbor as ourself as Christian Doctrine? If so, then again, where did that standard originate?

3. Is it OK for us Christians to practice witchcraft and the occult arts? If not, then where does that Christian standard originate?

4. Is it OK for us Christians to mary our sister or brother? If not, then where does that Christian standard originate?

5. Is it OK for us Christians to worship idols? If not, then where did that Christian standard originate?

6. Is there any Christian standard today that we are gainst doing which originated from God's laws back in the Old Testament Books?

 

[richard79408]

Vetern,Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Which law are you complaining about?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah.
Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Each convenant has its own laws.

Until Mt. Sinai the law that governed was God's Moral law of sin and of death--given to each human being at birth.
God separated out a people--the descendants of Abraham and gave them a new covenant law at Mt. Sinai.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them.
Deu 5:2 Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

I can find no where in scripture that God ever held a gentile accountable for say not making three annual trips to Jerusalem each year--or for not being circumcised.
Are you complaining that you want this law to be in force?

A law never given to any but the descendants of Abraham standing at Mt. Sinai. Notice that the law did not go backward..
God gave His people--beginning in Acts 2 on Penteocost following the cross--a brand new covenant and brand new laws. God in effect--taking the lesson of the wineskins as an illustration--did not put the old law in the new covenant.

The answer to your questions can be found in scripture from Acts 2 thru the end of Revelation which constitutes the new covenant.

Richard79408

 

[mark s]

OK then, since we have some here that believe God's law is now dead, and it no longer applies to us as Christians, then I have to ask...

Romans 7:4-6 ESV
(4) Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
(5) For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
(6) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

Hi Veteran,

I would not call myself one who believes that God's law is now dead, I prefer to stick to the Biblical language. We are dead to the law.

1. Is it OK for the Christian to commit murder? If not, then where does our Christian standard against doing that originate?

First, I have to ask . . . to answer a question with a question . . .

Do you want to commit murder? Or do you want to practice witchcraft? Commit incest? Worship idols? Are these things you want to do?

Or would you prefer instead to love others?

Do you not want to do righteousness? Is that not what you were born for? (As God's child, that is?)

God no longer has to tell you to not murder. He's changed you so you don't want to. He's done this by putting His own life in you, and has made you to be like Him. He doesn't have to tell you to not murder, because He's given you His love for others. Go and live that love.

Don't sell yourself short by going back to a law that couldn't make you righteous, couldn't change your nature, and that you could never obey.

Instead, live the life God created inside you, which loves, not kills, gives, not covets, blesses, not curses others.

Because God commands it? Because you were born for it. This is who you are. God's child, with His nature.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[veteran]

Vetern,Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Which law are you complaining about?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah.
Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Each convenant has its own laws.

Until Mt. Sinai the law that governed was God's Moral law of sin and of death--given to each human being at birth.
God separated out a people--the descendants of Abraham and gave them a new covenant law at Mt. Sinai.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them.
Deu 5:2 Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

I can find no where in scripture that God ever held a gentile accountable for say not making three annual trips to Jerusalem each year--or for not being circumcised.
Are you complaining that you want this law to be in force?

A law never given to any but the descendants of Abraham standing at Mt. Sinai. Notice that the law did not go backward..
God gave His people--beginning in Acts 2 on Penteocost following the cross--a brand new covenant and brand new laws. God in effect--taking the lesson of the wineskins as an illustration--did not put the old law in the new covenant.

The answer to your questions can be found in scripture from Acts 2 thru the end of Revelation which constitutes the new covenant.

Richard79408

Bottom line of your post, you failed to answer the questions.

Romans 7:4-6 ESV
(4) Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
(5) For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
(6) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

Hi Veteran,

I would not call myself one who believes that God's law is now dead, I prefer to stick to the Biblical language. We are dead to the law.



First, I have to ask . . . to answer a question with a question . . .

Do you want to commit murder? Or do you want to practice witchcraft? Commit incest? Worship idols? Are these things you want to do?

Or would you prefer instead to love others?

Do you not want to do righteousness? Is that not what you were born for? (As God's child, that is?)

God no longer has to tell you to not murder. He's changed you so you don't want to. He's done this by putting His own life in you, and has made you to be like Him. He doesn't have to tell you to not murder, because He's given you His love for others. Go and live that love.

Don't sell yourself short by going back to a law that couldn't make you righteous, couldn't change your nature, and that you could never obey.

Instead, live the life God created inside you, which loves, not kills, gives, not covets, blesses, not curses others.

Because God commands it? Because you were born for it. This is who you are. God's child, with His nature.

Love in Christ,
Mark

Bottom line, you failed to answer any of the questions, just as Richard failed.

Isn't there anyone here able to answer the following questions? If you can't, then you might want to open up your Bible more for yourself, and quit listening to men's agendas out there mixed within the Church.


1. Is it OK for the Christian to commit murder? If not, then where does our Christian standard against doing that originate?

2. are we to love our neighbor as ourself as Christian Doctrine? If so, then again, where did that standard originate?

3. Is it OK for us Christians to practice witchcraft and the occult arts? If not, then where does that Christian standard originate?

4. Is it OK for us Christians to mary our sister or brother? If not, then where does that Christian standard originate?

5. Is it OK for us Christians to worship idols? If not, then where did that Christian standard originate?

6. Is there any Christian standard today that we are gainst doing which originated from God's laws back in the Old Testament Books?

 

[0bed]

I hope people are not saying that Christians are above the law because that is what it sounds like!

 

[richard79408]

Veteran, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Sorry, Veteran, But I did answer each one of your questions--Just not in the way you wanted. The answer really is which law are Christians under? Folks cannnot be put under a law that they were never accountable to?

Is there something about the word "new" that makes you uncomfortable because that is exactly what God did--New Covenant, New Spirit, New Heart. God holds Christians accountable to that law and everyone else to God's moral law of sin and of death.

The new Covenant gives a new and better way--

Rom_5:5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us.

Rom_8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Co_13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfected; be comforted; be of the same mind; live in peace: and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Eph_3:19 and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fulness of God.

Eph_5:2 and walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell.

Col_2:2 that their hearts may be comforted, they being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, that they may know the mystery of God, even Christ,

1Th_1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith and labor of love and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, before our God and Father;

2Th_1:3 We are bound to give thanks to God always to you, brethren, even as it is meet, for that your faith growth exceedingly, and the love of each one of you all toward one another aboundeth;

2Th_3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ.

1Ti_6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2Ti_1:7 For God gave us not a spirit of fearfulness; but of power and love and discipline.

1Pe_2:17 Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

1Jn_2:5 but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:

1Jn_4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God.

1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn_4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another

1Jn_4:12 No man hath beheld God at any time: if we love one another, God abideth in us, and his love is perfected in us:

1Jn_4:16 And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him.

1Jn_5:2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.

1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Jud_1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

One has to learn how to recognize the demand of the new covenant--Love really seems to eliminate the need to have a specific law for each thing you want--

Richard79408

PS "Christians" who do the things you outline quite evidently do not have love--are no longer of God and thus are under God's Moral law of sin and of death--which tells all men not just Christians not to do those things you are looking for something to forbid.

 

[RichardBurger]

I hope people are not saying that Christians are above the law because that is what it sounds like!

Really! How can a Christain be judged by the law when they are no longer under the law. In other words, for the Christian the law has been satisfied by the work of God on the cross. What I see is that the religious just can't stand it that God has made a way for sinners to be saved. They just won't believe that others can be saved by grace since, in their own mind, they feel they have to keep trying to not sin in the flesh in order to be justified before God.

It is God that makes the rules, not man.

Veteran, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,


PS "Christians" who do the things you outline quite evidently do not have love--are no longer of God and thus are under God's Moral law of sin and of death--which tells all men not just Christians not to do those things you are looking for something to forbid.

I don't think I would make that judgement about love. No one, I repeat, no one can love others as Jesus did. Most just think they do. Mankind lives in bodies of sinful flesh and will sin. Your idea (statement) puts the child of God back under the law.

Many on these forums show hate for others and at the same time they think they love everybody. Mankind can rationalize that they do not sin in the flesh but the word of God says that if a man says he has no sin the truth is not in him. -- To God all sins are just that, sins. He makes no judgement between them. Only man does that and I believe it is to allow for the sins commited to be dimissed because, to them, they are just little ones.

 

[0bed]

Are you for real? First of all we need to keep the commandments of Jesus and then of course we have to obey the law of the land. Please explain your position!

If you are talking about the 613 Mitzvot laws I agree with you, but Gentiles never kept them anyway.

Please make yourself clear, and I jolly well know God makes the laws, and man does as well, don't try to be so clever.

Really! How can a Christain be judged by the law when they are no longer under the law. In other words, for the Christian the law has been satisfied by the work of God on the cross. What I see is that the religious just can't stand it that God has made a way for sinners to be saved. They just won't believe that others can be saved by grace since, in their own mind, they feel they have to keep trying to not sin in the flesh in order to be justified before God.

It is God that makes the rules, not man.



I don't think I would make that judgement about love. No one, I repeat, no one can love others as Jesus did. Most just think they do. Mankind lives in bodies of sinful flesh and will sin. Your idea (statement) puts the child of God back under the law.

Many on these forums show hate for others and at the same time they think they love everybody. Mankind can rationalize that they do not sin in the flesh but the word of God says that if a man says he has no sin the truth is not in him. -- To God all sins are just that, sins. He makes no judgement between them. Only man does that and I believe it is to allow for the sins commited to be dimissed because, to them, they are just little ones.

 

[RichardBurger]

Are you for real? First of all we need to keep the commandments of Jesus and then of course we have to obey the law of the land. Please explain your position!

If you are talking about the 613 Mitzvot laws I agree with you, but Gentiles never kept them anyway.

Please make yourself clear, and I jolly well know God makes the laws, and man does as well, don't try to be so clever.

Show me where you get the idea that we are still under the Law of Moses, any of them. Since you want me to believe we are still under the 10 commandments show me where the scriptures tell us we are free from only the other 600 or so law and not the 10.

Galatians 4:21-31
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar —
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

--- This persecution goes on in all Christain forums today

30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
NKJV

 

[0bed]

Read what I write, I said we, meaning Christians, have to keep the commandments of JESUS.

Show me where you get the idea that we are still under the Law of Moses, any of them. Since you want me to believe we are still under the 10 commandments show me where the scriptures tell us we are free from only the other 600 or so law and not the 10.

Galatians 4:21-31
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar —
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

--- This persecution goes on in all Christain forums today

30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
NKJV

 

[RichardBurger]

Read what I write, I said we, meaning Christians, have to keep the commandments of JESUS.

Same thing. Jesus taught the law of Moses to the Jews who were under the law of Moses. Neither Jesus or the 12 reciended the Law of Moses. No where in the first 4 books of the N.T. and the first 8 chapters of the book of Acts do we find scripture that tells us we are no longer under the Law of Moses and are noe saved by the shed blood on the cross. To Peter (Acts 2) the cross was something for the Jews to be ashamed of. But to Paul we are to

HOWEVER, Jesus sent Paul with a gospel of grace that was """""""""""""""""""""HIDDEN IN GOD""""""""""""" and revealed to Paul; for us, the Gentiles.

But the works crowd will never see this. The scripture says """"""""""HIDDEN IN GOD""""""" and the religious just ignore it and still say they believe the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-19
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God (cf. Isaiah 29:14) 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
NKJV

Galatians 6:13-14
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
NKJV

For not even those who are called Christians keep the law, but they desire to have you go back under the law that they may boast in your flesh

 

[richard79408]

Greetings,

It is true that man cannot love to the degree that Christ did..But I never said that--When one asks for laws"rules" for things that Christian cannot do--Love is the guiding motive.
Where we are separated from that Love is when folks in the name of God do their own thing believing that God is pleased with it.

The thing about love is that one cannot just say it--one must demostrate it in their lives.

Richard B, greeetings in Christ from sunny Texas,
you said...

Same thing. Jesus taught the law of Moses to the Jews who were under the law of Moses.

My observation--was that not His Job? Let's understand that even under the law of Moses--the Jews were as lost and as separated from God by sin as the Gentiles.
You said...
Neither Jesus or the 12 reciended the Law of Moses.

My response--Hmmm.--At the cross--The Mosaic law was removed from the Jews.

The first four books of the New Testament are really the last four books of the Old Testament--up to the cross.

On the day of Pentecost--in Acts 2--The 12 apostles taught non of the Mosaic law in order to be saved..None of it.
Now, we have all the scripture to use in guiding us--not just the Gospels which are not new Covenant--and in the book of Acts--and the rest of the new covenant it is clear that the law is gone.

We should not divy up the texts to suit us but take all of them as given understanding which covenant we are under today is helpful.
Richard79408

Richard B, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

I separated this out because this is really hard to understand or, even believe.....

you said
For not even those who are called Christians keep the law, but they desire to have you go back under the law that they may boast in your flesh
My response--Sorry, but upon reflection I find this offensive to the nth degree.

I am a Priest of the most high God, a saint if you will with all that entails. I do not teach that [a] Christians keep the law of Moses--
I do not teach others to keep the law of Moses in order to boast in their flesh.
I do teach what Paul teaches--obedience to the commands of God--Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye present yourselves as servants unto obedience, his servants ye are whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;
Rom 6:18 and being made free from sin, ye became servants of righteousness.
Well, I am not going to even wish you good luck with that thinking because that is way out there in no man's land.

Hmmmm. one thought--are you talking about yourself? Is that how you view Jesus?

Richard 79408

 

[0bed]

It is not the same thing at all and you admit it when you say, "Neither Jesus or the 12 rescinded the Law." The commandments of Jesus are for all time and don't you go saying otherwise. We are told to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's and to do otherwise is to invite anarchy. Salvation by the grace of God is a different subject.

Same thing. Jesus taught the law of Moses to the Jews who were under the law of Moses. Neither Jesus or the 12 reciended the Law of Moses. No where in the first 4 books of the N.T. and the first 8 chapters of the book of Acts do we find scripture that tells us we are no longer under the Law of Moses and are noe saved by the shed blood on the cross. To Peter (Acts 2) the cross was something for the Jews to be ashamed of. But to Paul we are to

HOWEVER, Jesus sent Paul with a gospel of grace that was """""""""""""""""""""HIDDEN IN GOD""""""""""""" and revealed to Paul; for us, the Gentiles.

But the works crowd will never see this. The scripture says """"""""""HIDDEN IN GOD""""""" and the religious just ignore it and still say they believe the word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:18-19
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God (cf. Isaiah 29:14) 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
NKJV

Galatians 6:13-14
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
NKJV

For not even those who are called Christians keep the law, but they desire to have you go back under the law that they may boast in your flesh

 

[RichardBurger]

It is not the same thing at all and you admit it when you say, "Neither Jesus or the 12 rescinded the Law." The commandments of Jesus are for all time and don't you go saying otherwise. We are told to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's and to do otherwise is to invite anarchy. Salvation by the grace of God is a different subject.

Since you claim you are under the law then you will be judged by the law and not grace. Law and grace can not be mixed. With what you believe I suppose you have torn out all the writings of Paul from your Bible since they don't really mean anything to you.

 

[0bed]

We may be talking at cross purposes? We are saved by the Grace of God, not by works lest any man should boast. But as citizens we do need to live a life that is right with God (righteous) which of course means being obedient to both the law of the land and the teaching of Christ although as I have just said, and as we are all agreed, keeping the law does not save us from our sin.

Since you claim you are under the law then you will be judged by the law and not grace. Law and grace can not be mixed. With what you believe I suppose you have torn out all the writings of Paul from your Bible since they don't really mean anything to you.

 

[richard79408]

Richard B, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

If one is a Christian according to the scriptures--then one is under the law of Christ. If one is not then one is under God's Moral law of sin and of death--

No one today is under the Mosaic law-- Grace requires obedience [a] to be a Christian and to remain a Christian.

Richard79408

 

[0bed]

That is correct, I cannot for the life of me understand why after all these years people are talking about the old Mosaic (Levitical law).

Richard B, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

If one is a Christian according to the scriptures--then one is under the law of Christ. If one is not then one is under God's Moral law of sin and of death--

No one today is under the Mosaic law-- Grace requires obedience [a] to be a Christian and to remain a Christian.

Richard79408

 

[RichardBurger]

Richard B, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

If one is a Christian according to the scriptures--then one is under the law of Christ. If one is not then one is under God's Moral law of sin and of death--

No one today is under the Mosaic law-- Grace requires obedience [a] to be a Christian and to remain a Christian.

Richard79408

You left our what our obedience is. Is it not sinning or is it keeping our faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

We are to be obedient to the gospel of Grace, not the law.

Obedience to God:

The Obedience of Faith: (Obedient to the faith, Acts 6:7)

In the following study we will see what "obedience” really means under grace.

John 6:28-29, below, indicates that our work of faith is to believe in Jesus Christ.

John 6:28-29 (NKJV)
28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Acts 6:7, below, refers to some of the Jewish "priests as being obedient to the faith." Of course it means that they believed the gospel regarding Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and King.

Acts 6:7 (NKJ)
7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Romans 6:17, below, again is in reference to the belief of the Christians in Rome, both Jews and Gentiles by saying they "obeyed" the doctrine that Paul taught them; That doctrine concerning the dying of Jesus on the cross for our sins and His resurrection from the dead which confirmed that He (Jesus) was sent by God.

Rom 6:17 (NKJ)
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.

Romans 11:30-32, below, describes the situation of the Jews as that of "disobedient" as were the Gentiles prior to believing the gospel. The KJV says they were "unbelieving." The words "unbelieving" and "disobedient" are chosen by different translators to represent the same Greek word.

Rom 11:30-32 (NKJ)
30 For as you (Gentiles) were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (the Jews) disobedience,
31 even so these (Jews) also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you (Gentiles) they (the Jews) also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all (Jews and Gentiles) to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The above scriptures are a few of those that teach the obedience of faith is about faith in Christ (Faith in His work on the cross), rather than Decalogue (the ten commandments) observance.

Legalists think this is no problem. They simply reason that the Jews were disobedient because they retained the law ""without"" Christ. Legalists feel they have remedied this: they have retained the law ""with Christ.""

Thus legalists define faith as ""inclusive"" of the law, when the Bible defines it as ""exclusive"" of the law - ("The law is not of faith, Gal. 3:11-12 below").

Gal 3:11-12 (NKJ)
11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

One would be hard-pressed to identify a more central error in the mind of the legalist than recursively: submission/inclusion of Christian principles to/within a legal construct, and redefinition of the whole as Christianity.

One of the most striking definitions of the "obedience of faith" is found in Romans 10:16. It is a parallelism equating "belief" with "obey [ing]" the gospel.

Rom 10:16 (NKJ)
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
The Law is not of Faith; That is, disobedience's being defined as disbelief, produces the paradox that to obey the law, is to disobey God. For our obeying the Law is self-usurping Christ's work on the cross. In other words Jesus was the only one that actually kept the law.

Saying "He kept the law" should be seen as He kept the "spirit of the law." Jesus did not keep the legal definitions of the law. It should also be seen that he broke the legal definitions of the law and had faith in God that it was the right thing to do. His healing the sick on the Sabbath was the right thing to do even though it broke the legal definition of the law.

In John 3:17-18 John wrote that the sin, which condemns, is the sin of "unbelief." John also wrote what Jesus said in John 16:8-9 below.

John 3:17-18 (NKJ)
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 16:8-9 (NKJ)
8 "And when He has come (The Holy Spirit), He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 "of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

So we see that obedience of Faith is not the same as obedience to the Jewish Law. Obedience to the faith is placing your faith, trust, confidence and hope in what Jesus (God) did on the cross.
--- let me say it another way, today, we are obedient when we place our faith in God’s work on the cross.

Another passage that destroys the myth of a law based Christian faith is found in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 below.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 (NKJ)
8 rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus:
9 who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
10 when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all them that believed (because our testimony unto you was believed) in that day.

Note that those who "obey not the gospel" in verse 8 are contrasted with those "who believe" in verse 10. This is important.

I seem to have left out these two other scriptures that support what I am saying in this article.
Rom 1:1-9
1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God
2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,
3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,
6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
NKJV

Their faith, not their works (verse 8)

Rom 16:25-27 NKJV
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith —
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.