Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?
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Please read my quote again:
We are no-longer under the Law but are under Christ, administered through the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3
You misunderstand what I am saying... :huh:
Do you think that Jesus and the 12 did not preach salvation and eternal life through Christ alone so that Israel would be saved also? of course they did... many did not recognize him nor would they receive him as Messiah...
PS: Salvation is a free gift. Sanctification is an on-going process.
How do we "love God and love our neighbor as our self" If all has been fulfilled in Christ as you have pointed out?
Do we as new creations go around naturally loving our neighbor now that we have been saved by grace through faith? No!...why not?
Shalom!!!
I see this confusion is still going on.
Where in God's Word was the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself first written?
Where in God's Word was the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself first written?
Deuteronomy 5
[sup]17 [/sup]‘You shall not murder.
[sup]18 [/sup]‘You shall not commit adultery.
[sup]19[/sup]‘You shall not steal.
[sup]20[/sup]‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
[sup]21 [/sup]‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.’
Romans 13:9-10.
[sup]9 [/sup]For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”“You shall not covet,” andif there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[sup]10 [/sup]Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Matthew 22:37-40.
[sup]7 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [sup]38[/sup]This is the first and great commandment.[sup]3[/sup][sup]9 [/sup]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [sup]40 [/sup]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
I once totally believed that the law was removed by Christ but now I believe that the law can be fulfilled in Christ because Christ fulfilled the law and we can also through the ministration of the Holy Spirit. If I am wrong please do not hesitate to show me why. ^_^
Blessings!!!
According to my Bible those in Christ were sanctified by the Holy Spirt when they were made children of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV
Sanctification is the work of God, not man. In other words a person can not sanctify themselves by what they do.
Jesus and the 12 never preached salvation by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. They never preached the Gospel of Grace. What they did was to try and get the Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King.
This will be a good verse to think about.
Acts 11:19
19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only.
NKJV
Who was scattered, wasn't it the Jews?
Acts 13
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and talked abusively against what Paul was saying.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’
Shalom!!!
There is no way that we can fulfill the law. If we could Jesus died and shed His blood on the cross for nothing.
I have found that most people who call themselves Christians say they are good. It is very hard to show them that they still sin in the flesh because they are equating a sinless life as a sign of salvation. To them, to admit they still sin is the same as saying they have no salvation. Makes me wonder where they place their faith.
Was Paul a member of the 12?
It was because of Christ's blood that we are able to fulfill the law Romans 8:1-4
I love the way you say that "most people who call themselves Christians" when they don't agree with you! ^_^ Again you are misunderstanding what I have said....Salvation is a free gift of God, sanctification, is an on-going process. If people believe that they no-longer sin than they are deceiving themselves. Can we get angry in thought or action? Can we have thoughts that you need to repent of? do we always speak to others with grace seasoned with salt? Are we always patient - when driving, patient with family members, patient at work?
If we were free from sin after salvation John wouldn't have made this statement...
1 John 2
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
Blessings!!!
Having been raised by Pharisee's I am very thankful for this topic. When I first came to this forum I was trying to keep the Sabbath (Saturday) having been scared by some people elsewhere. I was living in fear! Rach taught me a lot about Grace although she did not know it! So did others. Thank you!
I just had a thought that we can do our best to fulfill the law but we really can not. Think about loving your neighbor as yourself. You can try but you really can't. If you did you'd have to pray for your neighbor just as much as you prayed for yourself and your own family. And your neighbor might be an awful person. If you knew a drug addicted thief would you love them as much as yourself? Well not without God you sure would not! And even then it would be hard.
I just had a thought that we can do our best to fulfill the law but we really can not. Think about loving your neighbor as yourself. You can try but you really can't. If you did you'd have to pray for your neighbor just as much as you prayed for yourself and your own family. And your neighbor might be an awful person. If you knew a drug addicted thief would you love them as much as yourself? Well not without God you sure would not! And even then it would be hard.
Lev 19:15-18
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
(KJV)
Since that was a commandment also under the Old Covenant law, how can God's laws now be done away with? especially since Paul also repeated that commandment for us after Christ had already brought The New Covenant through His Blood?
God's people must have law and order, for we are not the children of chaos. This is why Apostle Paul said what he did in Galatians 5 and 1 Cor.6 about those who are breaking those laws not inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven.
I know in what sense Paul meant that from the OT, because in Isaiah there's an idea about the workers of iniquity pulling a cart of their sins around with a rope like a show and tell thing, proud of their sinning. Those are about the habitual sinner, those who don't care or not if they sin, don't think anything wrong with it, not caring if their going to be held accountable. Thus Paul didn't mean that for believers on Christ that slip up at times, and repent for it from a good conscience to make a change.
The law has been already fulfilled in Christ. Just as our righteousness does not come from ourselves but Christ's work on the cross.
Hey Shirl!
The law has already been fulfilled in Christ. ^_^
Shalom!!!
Hey Vet!
That is what I am saying Vet...Please read my posts... :huh:
Bless ya!
Paul recognized that he was free to choose to keep the Mosaic Law or not, whatever served best for those he was trying to win for Christ.
But even in saying that he was free to live as those without Law, this did not leave him in a lawless state, because his true duty was to serve Jesus Christ.
Not being under the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that we are without law. We serve the risen Lord, not according to an old covenant that has been replaced, but according to the living Spirit Who lives in us.
Love in Christ,
Mark
We have to keep in mind as we discuss this, two very important things.
One is that the Old Covenant was with Israel. The Mosaic Law never was given to govern the gentiles, only Israel. Acts 15 affirms that it was not extended to govern the gentiles.
The other is that the Law was a covenant. The one who did these things - all of them - would live. Fail to keep them, you must die. That's the covenant. Is that what you want?
Love in Christ,
Mark
One is that the Old Covenant was with Israel. The Mosaic Law never was given to govern the gentiles, only Israel. Acts 15 affirms that it was not extended to govern the gentiles.
The other is that the Law was a covenant. The one who did these things - all of them - would live. Fail to keep them, you must die. That's the covenant. Is that what you want?
Love in Christ,
Mark
Through faith. I knew the voice of the spirit before I even read the bible, much less the law. I got saved when I realized the voice that I knew as God was the same voice speaking to me through the words of the bible.
I got ya, but the idea of the law being fulfilled in Christ is understood by many to mean that all of God's laws are now done away with, and Grace having replaced it all. 'There's the rub.'
How do we know that's not what you're saying too? Can you explain further?
It has been said, "All that hear and learn of the father come to me". How can they hear and learn of the father except through the voice of the spirit?
That's non-sensical. The spirit imparts knowledge.
In regards to another question you asked, to which law are you referring? The law of Moses (10) or the law of Christ (do unto others as you would have them do unto you)?
We are no longer justified by the law.
Under grace the law has no longer condeming power.
As believers in Jesus; our new nature desires to be pleasing to Him and reflects His nature which is a reflection of His Law.
His nature cannot contradict His Law.
Thus in our new nature we 'keep' the law albeit imperfectly through trusting Him.
The one who trusts Jesus will not steal,bear false witness,commit adultery,covet etc. but look to God giving thanks for all things and helping their neighbor trusting God will provide.
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(Gal 2:19-21)
Under grace the law has no longer condeming power.
As believers in Jesus; our new nature desires to be pleasing to Him and reflects His nature which is a reflection of His Law.
His nature cannot contradict His Law.
Thus in our new nature we 'keep' the law albeit imperfectly through trusting Him.
The one who trusts Jesus will not steal,bear false witness,commit adultery,covet etc. but look to God giving thanks for all things and helping their neighbor trusting God will provide.
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(Gal 2:19-21)
Now, dear brothers and sisters --you who are familiar with the law--don't you know that the law applies only to a person who is still living?
Let me illustrate.
When a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries.
So this is the point: The law no longer holds you in its power, because you died to its power when you died with Christ on the cross. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, you can produce good fruit, that is, good deeds for God.
When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced sinful deeds, resulting in death. But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit.
(Romans 7:1-6 NLT)
What happens when we are under the Law? Sinful desires are aroused.
Do you want to be under the Law?
Love in Christ,
Mark
Let me illustrate.
When a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries.
So this is the point: The law no longer holds you in its power, because you died to its power when you died with Christ on the cross. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, you can produce good fruit, that is, good deeds for God.
When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced sinful deeds, resulting in death. But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit.
(Romans 7:1-6 NLT)
What happens when we are under the Law? Sinful desires are aroused.
Do you want to be under the Law?
Love in Christ,
Mark
Amen Mark! That is what I have been trying to say... although I do not think that the law has been replaced but rather transferred... ^_^
Bless ya!
----------------------------
Hey Vet!
You got me where?...
no...not done away with but renewed through Christ.Romans 8
[sup]3 [/sup]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [sup]4[/sup]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
1 John 2
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
2 John 1
5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
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The requirements and the precepts of the law could not cleanse a man's conscience from sin but God passed over those sinful acts committed under the first covenant. "which was only a shadow", until the time of the new order.
Hebrews 9
[sup]9[/sup] This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. [sup]10[/sup]They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
... guess what else Jesus did!
Hebrews 9:15
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hallelujah!!!
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