Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

[RichardBurger]

I have no kind words to any I consider to be false witnesses of the kingdom except repent.

So all on this forum that do not accept your belief is a false witness. You have it all and everyone else misses the point.

Such arrogance .

The Jews had no kind words for Jesus because they considered him a false witness. You do the same to all others. Enought said.

The reasoning of men.

The letters recorded in the New Testament are not the comprehensive words of the 12. Do you write the fulness of everything whenever you write? The Gentiles had to be walked through things like babies. The Jews had more experience in these matters. To claim that Paul was preaching a different message to the 12 is patently ridiculous. The 12 approved the message of Paul. And it was Peter who first was used to bring the Gentiles to Christ.

The bible doesn't mention dinosaurs either...

You'd think this line of argument would come from a non-believer!

Paul's message was given to him by Jesus on the road to Damascus. Not by the 12.

Galatians 1:11-17
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
NKJV

Thank you Mark! Yes the Law was given to Israel and not to Gentile believers. I believe that the Law is written on our hearts and administered through the Holy Spirit as believers by faith. Just as he had promised those who believed on him by faith 430 years before the law came into being. That promise being the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3
[sup]13[/sup]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), [sup]14[/sup]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[sup]15 [/sup]Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. [sup]16 [/sup]Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”who is Christ. [sup]17 [/sup]And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. [sup]18 [/sup]For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Bless you!!!

If you will see it, the promise was made ONLY to Abraham and his seed Jesus Christ. Not to all men at that time.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So all on this forum that do not accept your belief is a false witness. You have it all and everyone else misses the point.
Such arrogance .
The Jews had no kind words for Jesus because they considered him a false witness. You do the same to all others. Enought said.

Don't flatter yourself to think that what you teach is held by very many of those on this forum. All false teachers hide behind such rationalizations, and indulge in a persecution complex.

 

[mark s]

Hey, just a thought . . . would it be possible . . . I don't know, what do you think? Would it be possible to like limit the personal put-downs?

Ad Hominem arguments are a logical fallacy anyway, so it doesn't strengthen either your assertions or rebuttals.

Like I said . . . just a thought . . .

 

[RichardBurger]

Don't flatter yourself to think that what you teach is held by very many of those on this forum. All false teachers hide behind such rationalizations, and indulge in a persecution complex.

I do not think that many on this forum will accept what I write. I am hear to teach the truth of God's word as written in the scriptures not to elevate myself. I am not like others who try and flatter themselves by wanting others to think they are God's gift to man and they never sin. I preach Jesus and Him crucified on a cross on which He shed His blood to pay for the sins of mankind. All who place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in what Jesus did on the cross are saved by the Holy Spirit. Faith plus nothing.

Religious man will never accept the truth of a free gift from God in Christ. They will always be blinded by their religion.

Hey, just a thought . . . would it be possible . . . I don't know, what do you think? Would it be possible to like limit the personal put-downs?

Ad Hominem arguments are a logical fallacy anyway, so it doesn't strengthen either your assertions or rebuttals.

Like I said . . . just a thought . . .

It does not bother me anymore. I accept the put downs just as Paul did. It is part of the job of teaching the gospel that was hidden in God and revealed to Paul.

It is obvious to me that Satan will never let religious men place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. They must have their works of religion to try and set themselves up as better than others.

 

[jiggyfly]

The preached Word, that is the reason for the Great Commission.

Is that any preached word?

Good study...thanks Jiggy for the post 62...well said...I think once we are in Christ and walk in His ways we just do them anyway....I never worry if I am breaking one...don't even think of them ...

Your welcome Shep. Not sure why everyone else is avoiding what Paul said in 2Cor. chapter 3 but it's there whether they choose to ignore it or not. The old way which includes the law has been replaced, period!

 

[goodshepard55]

Hey, just a thought . . . would it be possible . . . I don't know, what do you think? Would it be possible to like limit the personal put-downs?

Ad Hominem arguments are a logical fallacy anyway, so it doesn't strengthen either your assertions or rebuttals.

Like I said . . . just a thought . . .

Well said...it is possible for people to stop the tearing each others down...When they follow the word of God.....So guys lets just be a little nicer to each other...It is possible to use scriptures to get your opinions out there and to use scriptures to make your points....If you don't agree say so and then make you opinions based on scriptures...scriptures don't lie, they can be twisted and used to make a point, but they are the TRUTH....We don't have to agree with what everyone on here post, we are here to learn from each other and from God, when you post scriptures you are giving non believers a chance to read the Word...This kind of behavior is not worthy of children of God, it does not edify God nor yourself...If you can't agree...just don't post or ignore that person...you have choices here to be kind and loving to each other...It is possible to have or to help change a persons opinions with a better attitude...We should see CB as a place to build the Kingdom of God, and darlings when you are throwing utter rubbish and tearing each other down, you are tearing the Kingdom down..Followers of Christ, do as He does...

 

[Angelina]

If you will see it, the promise was made ONLY to Abraham and his seed Jesus Christ. Not to all men at that time.

Richard...your understanding of this scripture is incorrect. :huh:

That promise was based on faith in Jesus Christ. Not to Abraham alone or his blood descendants.

Galatians 3
[sup]4[/sup]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The bible says that those who have faith in Jesus are Abraham's children and heirs to the promise.

Galatians 3
[sup]26 [/sup]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [sup]27 [/sup]For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [sup]28[/sup]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [sup]29 [/sup]And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Shalom!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This kind of behavior is not worthy of children of God, it does not edify God nor yourself...

Please explain yourself. Is Christianity about being nice? Was Paul promoting unworthy and unedifying behavior?

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 1 Timothy 5:20​

 

[goodshepard55]

Christianity is about following what the Lord Jesus Christ said..Love one another as I have loved you....Jesus rebuked the Pharisees sure, but He did so in a manner befitting the King...If you just want to tear someone down for the joy of it ....that is not of Christ...You can rebike, you can say it is not true...but you do not have to try and tear up someone to get a point across...Attitude is what shows.....

 

[mark s]

Please explain yourself. Is Christianity about being nice? Was Paul promoting unworthy and unedifying behavior?

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. 1 Timothy 5:20​

See this Topic

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Christianity is about following what the Lord Jesus Christ said..Love one another as I have loved you....Jesus rebuked the Pharisees sure, but He did so in a manner befitting the King...If you just want to tear someone down for the joy of it ....that is not of Christ...You can rebike, you can say it is not true...but you do not have to try and tear up someone to get a point across...Attitude is what shows.....

Jesus called the religious leaders of his day hypocrites, vipers, and children of the devil. If he did that here people would whine an moan about him not being nice. I'm offended that you think I get joy out of confronting false teachers who threaten the body of Christ. It's not a fun thing to do. But it is necessary.

See this Topic

Seen. And your point is? Do you not discern the difference between brethren and enemies of the cross who masquerade as brethren?

 

[mark s]

Would you say that those Scriptures do, or do not apply to you?

Jesus said that His judgment is true. He said to His hearers, they, on the other hand, judge according to the flesh.

John 8:15-16 NKJV
(15) You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.
(16) And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.

Are you so certain that those who disagree with you, or even those who do not understand a certain doctrine correctly, are "enemies of the cross"?

And this passage, should this be applied?

2 Timothy 2:24-26 NKJV
(24) And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
(25) in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
(26) and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Are you a servant of the Lord?

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Angelina]

Hi Jiggy!

Not sure why everyone else is avoiding what Paul said in 2Cor. chapter 3 but it's there whether they choose to ignore it or not. The old way which includes the law has been replaced, period!

Probably because none of the bibles that I refer to, have the word "replaced" in it

2 Corinthians 3 NKJV
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

KJV
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


NIV'84
9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

NASB
9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

Bless ya!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Would you say that those Scriptures do, or do not apply to you?
Jesus said that His judgment is true. He said to His hearers, they, on the other hand, judge according to the flesh.
Are you so certain that those who disagree with you, or even those who do not understand a certain doctrine correctly, are "enemies of the cross"?
And this passage, should this be applied?
2 Timothy 2:24-26 NKJV
(24) And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
(25) in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
(26) and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Are you a servant of the Lord?

I wouldn't open my mouth if I wasn't certain that their teachings are contrary to the cross of Christ. Don't project your lack of discernment or courage onto me. I'm not going to sit here and quibble with you when you can't even address the reality that Paul told Timothy to openly rebuke those who openly sinned. False teachers fall into that category.

 

[veteran]

Amen Mark! That is what I have been trying to say... although I do not think that the law has been replaced but rather transferred... ^_^ Bless ya! ---------------------------- Hey Vet! You got me where?... no...not done away with but renewed through Christ. Romans 8 [sup]3 [/sup]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [sup]4[/sup]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 1 John 2 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. 9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 2 John 1 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. --------------------------------------------------------------- The requirements and the precepts of the law could not cleanse a man's conscience from sin but God passed over those sinful acts committed under the first covenant. "which was only a shadow", until the time of the new order. Hebrews 9 [sup]9[/sup] This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. [sup]10[/sup]They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order. 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? ... guess what else Jesus did! Hebrews 9:15 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Hallelujah!!!

Right, that's what I believe too, that our Lord Jesus taught the 'spirit' of God's laws and commandments, and not some rote system like under the Old Covenant system.


Matt 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(KJV)

The Holy Spirit anointing is given us to help us do that very thing, even though we are not saved by the law, but by Faith on Jesus Christ.

 

[mark s]

I can't believe you are that dull, undiscerning and deluded to think otherwise. Stunned, absolutely stunned.

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:2​

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19​

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7​

What prevents you from simply countering with the Scriptures without the perjoratives? Asking a direct question without getting personal?

I can't believe you are that dull, undiscerning and deluded to think otherwise. Stunned, absolutely stunned.

This seems Christ-like to you?

Take Paul's example of an open rebuke to Peter:

Galatians 2:14 NKJV
(14) But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

Can you see a difference? It's direct, to the point. But only that.

OK, let's get back to topic . . .

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

OK, let's get back to topic . . .

After I have my say.

This seems Christ-like to you?

Get real man and quit trying to saddle me with your pantywaist Christianity. Does this sound Christ-like to you?

[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Matthew 23:33​

 

[mark s]

After I have my say.



Get real man and quit trying to saddle me with your pantywaist Christianity. Does this sound Christ-like to you?

[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Matthew 23:33​

More name calling? I suppose I'm one of those "false teachers" that you feel the license to insult?

Making doctrine based on narrative is not the best practice, and can lead you in the wrong direction.

You cite what Jesus said to those Pharisees. This is narrative.

I cite what we are instructed to do. This is doctrine and instruction.

You call this "pantywaist Christianity"? Your dispute is with Scripture.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[goodshepard55]

HeRoseFromTheDead...my point is that you can make your opinions known without all the name calling or insulting tones...Darling it does not bother me what you call me or say about me ....I know the Lord Jesus, He loves me...I am just asking you to consider the fact that nonbelievers visit here and your attitude reflects you, I would think you would want people that are looking for Christ to want to find Him through your post and knowledge of the Word, not through your attitude or judgment of others...

 

[jiggyfly]

Hi Jiggy!



Probably because none of the bibles that I refer to, have the word "replaced" in it

2 Corinthians 3 NKJV
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

KJV
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


NIV'84
9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

NASB
9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

Bless ya!!!

Hey Angelina, have you looked at the Greek word used in the text? The Greek verb katargeō translated in the KJV as "that which is/was done away" in verse 7 and 11.
The New International Dictionary Of New Testament Theology defines the Greek verb katargeō as abolish, nullify, to render inactive, put out of use, or cancel.

Strong's defines katargeō

1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
to deprive of force, influence, power
2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
c) to terminate all intercourse with one


So in conjunction with the Greek verb menō used in verse 11, describing the "new way" or " ministration of righteousness" meaning to remain or abide. So one ( the old way) is done or passed away and the other remains. I believe that "replaced" is a dynamic account of what occurred here. At any rate even if someone dislikes "replaced", there is no denying what happen to the old ministration which included the ten commandments.

Following the letter (law) dims in comparison to following the HolySpirit.