Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

[mark s]

Hi Angelina,

I was thinking of this passage:

Hebrews 10:1-10 LITV
(1) For the Law had a shadow of the coming good things, not the image itself of those things. Appearing year by year with the same sacrifices, which they offer continually, they never are able to perfect the ones drawing near.
(2) Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered? Because those serving did not still have conscience of sins, having once been cleansed.
(3) But in these there is a remembrance of sins year by year,
(4) for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
(5) For this reason, coming into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You prepared a body for Me.
(6) You did not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins."
(7) "Then I said, Lo, I come, in the heading of the Book it was written concerning Me, to do Your will, O God."
(8) Above, saying, "You did not desire nor were pleased with sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and sacrifices concerning sins," (which are offered according to the Law),
(9) then He said, "Lo, I come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first in order that He may set up the second;
(10) by which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The shadow - the Law - was removed when the image itself came.

Christ cast the shadow, as it were, but now Christ has come.

The first Testament, the covenant of Law, is replaced with the New Testament, the new covenant of grace.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[jiggyfly]

In agreement with Mark's post above and confirming with another scripture.​

7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life?9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God!10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way.11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!12 Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold.13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away.14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.​

2 Cor 3:7-18 (NLT)

According to Paul the law including the ten commandments were part of the old covenant given to Israel through Moses and has been replaced with a better way which is living by the HolySpirit.

 

[biggandyy]

That's non-sensical. The spirit imparts knowledge.

THAT is non-sense. The Spirit imparts UNDERSTANDING from Scripture, not new knowledge apart from Scripture.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

THAT is non-sense. The Spirit imparts UNDERSTANDING from Scripture, not new knowledge apart from Scripture.

Well that's true in the sense that the spirit's impartation will always agree with scripture. However, the spirit imparts understanding, knowledge, and wisdom of itself because it is life; and the three are inseparable. Men who hear its voice will not fully comprehend what they hear apart from scripture, but those who are of God will know that voice and follow it whether they have read the bible, or not. As I told you, I knew the voice of God before I ever read the bible. And scripture witnesses that what I say is true.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another Romans 2:14-15​

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:19-20​

The book of Revelation states that John was to seal what the 7 thunders spoke. When that new knowledge is revealed to someone(s), will you then be able to say that "The Spirit imparts UNDERSTANDING from Scripture, not new knowledge apart from Scripture"?

 

[jiggyfly]

THAT is non-sense. The Spirit imparts UNDERSTANDING from Scripture, not new knowledge apart from Scripture.

Then how did/does the HolySpirit reveal truth to those believers that had/have no scripture or simply could/can not read?

 

[biggandyy]

The preached Word, that is the reason for the Great Commission.

 

[goodshepard55]

Good study...thanks Jiggy for the post 62...well said...I think once we are in Christ and walk in His ways we just do them anyway....I never worry if I am breaking one...don't even think of them ...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Laws are benchmarks governing acceptable behavior; and are established for the lawless.

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient... 1 Timothy 1:9​

Laws have no authority over those who obey them; but rather become hallmarks declaring one's righteousness. The law declares Christ righteous.

Also, laws have no authority over dead persons. In Christ we have died to the flesh, and thus to the demands of the law of Moses; and are declared righteous through his obedience.

The preached Word, that is the reason for the Great Commission.

What about those who have never heard the preached word, yet treat others as they would desire to be treated? Where did they get that understanding, knowledge and wisdom to obey what Christ said is the ultimate law?

 

[biggandyy]

The Bible says man is already in a state of condemnation (Jn.3). We are separated from our maker and we are not actively looking for him to repair this separation.

God is fair toward mankind, He has bestowed common grace extending to the believer and unbeliever alike. Jesus said: He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust (Matthew 5:45).The Psalmist writes, Gracious is the Lord and righteous; yes, our God is merciful (Psalm 116:5). In this life God's grace affects all. After this life only the believer will be the recipient of his grace and goodness.

Paul stated to the pagans in Acts 14: to turn from useless things to the living God who made heaven and earth and all things that are in them, who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.” Nature is living testimony to a God who cares for his creation and people.

 

[RichardBurger]

There is no way that we can fulfill the law. If we could Jesus died and shed His blood on the cross for nothing.

I have found that most people who call themselves Christians say they are good. It is very hard to show them that they still sin in the flesh because they are equating a sinless life as a sign of salvation. To them, to admit they still sin is the same as saying they have no salvation. Makes me wonder where they place their faith.



Was Paul a member of the 12?

No he wasn't. His was a gospel of grace that, "as your scriptures teach," was hidden in God and revealed to him by Jesus. Paul was specifically sent to the Gentiles. The others were not. Their specific preaching was to the Jews. The intent of their peaching was to the Jews trying to get them to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King so that he, Jesus, would come back and set up the Jewish kingdom. No where do we find the 12 teaching that the shed blood of Jesus covers sins. If you can find a place where they teach the shed blood for salvation then let me know where it is.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Mark!

The shadow - the Law - was removed when the image itself came.
Christ cast the shadow, as it were, but now Christ has come.
The first Testament, the covenant of Law, is replaced with the New Testament, the new covenant of grace.

Love in Christ,
Mark

I understand what you are saying but I have some reservations about the law being replaced. For example; why would the OT law be replaced if it had never been fulfilled by anyone accept Jesus in the first place? If it were fulfilled and Jesus was the only one to fulfill it then why would it be replaced?

Example: The Law is Spiritual [Rom7:14] Holy [Rom7:12] and came by Angels into the hands of a mediator [Gal 3:19]. The tabernacle that housed the law was earthly, and encompassed in things that could not make a person free from sin. No-one had ever been able to fulfill the requirements of the Law accept Jesus. So what was always Spiritual and Holy can now be fulfilled in those who walk according to the Spirit because the law of the Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death [Rom 8:1-4]

Romans 8:3
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Hey! I could be wrong and If I am....I am happy to admit it but I have not had an answer that satisfies my thoughts on this matter yet...

Bless ya! ^_^

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No where do we find the 12 teaching that the shed blood of Jesus covers sins. If you can find a place where they teach the shed blood for salvation then let me know where it is.

I can't believe you are that dull, undiscerning and deluded to think otherwise. Stunned, absolutely stunned.

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:2​

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19​

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7​

 

[Saint]

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
(Joh 14:15 ESV)

What did Yeshua intend here?

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Mark!



I understand what you are saying but I have some reservations about the law being replaced. For example; why would the OT law be replaced if it had never been fulfilled by anyone accept Jesus in the first place? If it were fulfilled and Jesus was the only one to fulfill it then why would it be replaced?

Example: The Law is Spiritual [Rom7:14] Holy [Rom7:12] and came by Angels into the hands of a mediator [Gal 3:19]. The tabernacle that housed the law was earthly, and encompassed in things that could not make a person free from sin. No-one had ever been able to fulfill the requirements of the Law accept Jesus. So what was always Spiritual and Holy can now be fulfilled in those who walk according to the Spirit because the law of the Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death [Rom 8:1-4]

Romans 8:3
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Hey! I could be wrong and If I am....I am happy to admit it but I have not had an answer that satisfies my thoughts on this matter yet...

Bless ya! ^_^

When we are trying to fulfill the law by what we do we are not living in the Spirit, we are living in the flesh and trying to make the flesh sinless. The righteousness of the law was fulfilled in Jesus. Those that place their faith in Jesus' work on the cross are living, walking, in the Spirit, it is not a physical walk, it is a walk of faith. According to the scriptures they are placed in Christ spiritually by the Holy Spirit. This is the promise in Paul's gospel of grace and people must have faith in this promise.

If a person is looking for physical confirmation of the spirit they will never find it.

John 3:7-8
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

if we are trying to fulfill the law by what we do we are not living in the Spirit, we are living in the flesh and trying to be sinless. Romans 8:12-13
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
NKJV

The children of God live in bodies of sinful flesh and they stil sin in the flesh. However, none of them WANT to sin, but they are honest with God and God covers their sins with the Blood of Christ. see Romans 7. His grace is greater than our sins.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV

To believe on Him is to trust His promises revealed in the gospel He gave to Paul for us.

I can't believe you are that dull, undiscerning and deluded to think otherwise. Stunned, absolutely stunned.

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 1 Peter 1:2​

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19​

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7​

You said to me; I can't believe you are that dull, undiscerning and deluded to think otherwise. Stunned, absolutely stunned

Do you have any other kind and loving words for me?

But you didn't find this in the first 4 books of the N.T. nor in the book of Acts. It is obvious that 1 Peter was written many years after Paul started preaching. Even after all those years Peter had to have picked up some of it and he said this;

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation — as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

No he wasn't. His was a gospel of grace that, "as your scriptures teach," was hidden in God and revealed to him by Jesus. Paul was specifically sent to the Gentiles. The others were not. Their specific preaching was to the Jews. The intent of their peaching was to the Jews trying to get them to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King so that he, Jesus, would come back and set up the Jewish kingdom. No where do we find the 12 teaching that the shed blood of Jesus covers sins. If you can find a place where they teach the shed blood for salvation then let me know where it is.

The reasoning of men.

The letters recorded in the New Testament are not the comprehensive words of the 12. Do you write the fulness of everything whenever you write? The Gentiles had to be walked through things like babies. The Jews had more experience in these matters. To claim that Paul was preaching a different message to the 12 is patently ridiculous. The 12 approved the message of Paul. And it was Peter who first was used to bring the Gentiles to Christ.

The bible doesn't mention dinosaurs either...

You'd think this line of argument would come from a non-believer!

 

[Angelina]

When we are trying to fulfill the law by what we do we are not living in the Spirit, we are living in the flesh and trying to make the flesh sinless. The righteousness of the law was fulfilled in Jesus. Those that place their faith in Jesus' work on the cross are living, walking, in the Spirit, it is not a physical walk, it is a walk of faith. According to the scriptures they are placed in Christ spiritually by the Holy Spirit. This is the promise in Paul's gospel of grace and people must have faith in this promise.

If a person is looking for physical confirmation of the spirit they will never find it.

John 3:7-8
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
NKJV

if we are trying to fulfill the law by what we do we are not living in the Spirit, we are living in the flesh and trying to be sinless. Romans 8:12-13
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
NKJV

The children of God live in bodies of sinful flesh and they stil sin in the flesh. However, none of them WANT to sin, but they are honest with God and God covers their sins with the Blood of Christ. see Romans 7. His grace is greater than our sins.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV

You are preaching to the converted and have totally missed my point. :huh:

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

(Joh 14:15 ESV)

Thanks Saint! well said...

Blessings!!!

 

[mark s]

Hi Mark!



I understand what you are saying but I have some reservations about the law being replaced. For example; why would the OT law be replaced if it had never been fulfilled by anyone accept Jesus in the first place? If it were fulfilled and Jesus was the only one to fulfill it then why would it be replaced?

Example: The Law is Spiritual [Rom7:14] Holy [Rom7:12] and came by Angels into the hands of a mediator [Gal 3:19]. The tabernacle that housed the law was earthly, and encompassed in things that could not make a person free from sin. No-one had ever been able to fulfill the requirements of the Law accept Jesus. So what was always Spiritual and Holy can now be fulfilled in those who walk according to the Spirit because the law of the Spirit has set us free from the law of sin and death [Rom 8:1-4]

Romans 8:3
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Hey! I could be wrong and If I am....I am happy to admit it but I have not had an answer that satisfies my thoughts on this matter yet...

Bless ya! ^_^

Hi Angelina,

Not so much that the Law itself has been replaced, rather, the covenant of the Law has been replaced by the new covenant in Christ's blood.

The Law still stands - did everybody catch that? - as God's righteous standard, but the Law was given as a covenant to with Israel (do these things and you will live), but we have a new covenant that replaces that covenant (believe in Jesus and you will live).

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you have any other kind and loving words for me?

I have no kind words to any I consider to be false witnesses of the kingdom except repent.

 

[mark s]

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
(Joh 14:15 ESV)

What did Yeshua intend here?

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

What did Jesus command?

 

[Angelina]

The Law still stands - did everybody catch that?

Thank you Mark! Yes the Law was given to Israel and not to Gentile believers. I believe that the Law is written on our hearts and administered through the Holy Spirit as believers by faith. Just as he had promised those who believed on him by faith 430 years before the law came into being. That promise being the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3
[sup]13[/sup]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), [sup]14 [/sup]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[sup]15 [/sup]Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. [sup]16 [/sup]Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”who is Christ. [sup]17 [/sup]And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. [sup]18 [/sup]For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Bless you!!!