Do We as Christians Keep the Mosaic Law?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

More name calling? I suppose I'm one of those "false teachers" that you feel the license to insult?

I didn't call you anything except man. Your response is a good example of how pantywaist Christianity has institutionalized denial of non-codified truth to the point that its followers call speaking confrontational truths slurs, name calling, insults and personal attacks, even when those truths are mild in comparison to words uttered by the man they claim to follow.

Hey Angelina, have you looked at the Greek word used in the text? The Greek verb katargeō translated in the KJV as "that which is/was done away" in verse 7 and 11.
The New International Dictionary Of New Testament Theology defines the Greek verb katargeō as abolish, nullify, to render inactive, put out of use, or cancel.

Strong's defines katargeō

1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
B) to deprive of force, influence, power
2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
B) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
c) to terminate all intercourse with one

And that term was used nearly 2000 ago to describe the condition of the Mosaic covenant, Yet some people still consider it to be in force and effectual for godliness today.

 

[Angelina]

Hi HeRose!

It's one of the measuring sticks that God uses through the Holy Spirit to determine what is good and what is not, when ministering to our conscience. ^_^ Bless ya!

Hi Jiggy!

1)

to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
to deprive of force, influence, power
2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
c) to terminate all intercourse with one

KJV 2 Cor 3:!! [G2673] katargeō done away
From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

It still sounds a lot different when compared with the word "replace."

Blessings!!!

 

[jiggyfly]

Hi HeRose!

It's one of the measuring sticks that God uses through the Holy Spirit to determine what is good and what is not, when ministering to our conscience. ^_^ Bless ya!

Hi Jiggy!



KJV 2 Cor 3:!! [G2673] katargeō done away
From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

It still sounds a lot different when compared with the word "replace."

Blessings!!!

Well like I said earlier, it really does not change the scripture context in regards to the topic and the fact that Paul includes the ten commandments as being "done away".

 

[Saint]

What did Jesus command?

Wasn't it Yeshua who gave the moral law to Moses? Of course the greatest commandment is to Love; first YHWH and then those around us and if we fulfill this properly we have fulfilled the Law haven’t we?

Of course the instructions from Yeshua were the same that YHWH repeatedly gave to the Hebrews: Love Me and keep My commandments, so the two statements are separate it seems.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[RichardBurger]

Wasn't it Yeshua who gave the moral law to Moses? Of course the greatest commandment is to Love; first YHWH and then those around us and if we fulfill this properly we have fulfilled the Law haven’t we?

Of course the instructions from Yeshua were the same that YHWH repeatedly gave to the Hebrews: Love Me and keep My commandments, so the two statements are separate it seems.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

Since man has never been able to keep God's perfect laws, God had to make another new way that does not depend on man being able to keep His perfect laws. In Hebrews we see that the law failed to save because no one could keep it, because of the weakness of man.

That new way was to make salvation dependant on God, not on man. All a man has to do is to depend on God's works through faith in them. It was the gospel that God had hidden in Himself until God (Jesus) revealed it to Paul on the road to Damascus. -- But I realize that even though the scripture say it was hidden in God and revealed to Paul, the religious will not hear it.

 

[Saint]

Since man has never been able to keep God's perfect laws, God had to make another new way that does not depend on man being able to keep His perfect laws. In Hebrews we see that the law failed to save because no one could keep it, because of the weakness of man.

That new way was to make salvation dependant on God, not on man. All a man has to do is to depend on God's works through faith in them. It was the gospel that God had hidden in Himself until God (Jesus) revealed it to Paul on the road to Damascus. -- But I realize that even though the scripture say it was hidden in God and revealed to Paul, the religious will not hear it.

However if man continues to sin willfully against the will of YHWH it is a sign that the spirit of God does not live within them; so the question is, how do we define sin outside of the commandments of YHWH?

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[RichardBurger]

However if man continues to sin willfully against the will of YHWH it is a sign that the spirit of God does not live within them; so the question is, how do we define sin outside of the commandments of YHWH?

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

Romans 7:19-25
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

Many use verse 24 and 25 to indicate that God changes man into a sinlees man. But the verses do not say that. Jesus delivered us from our bodies of sin by paying the price for those sins on the cross.

It is obvious that man is not made sinless in the flesh when you see the last 7 words in verse 25.

Can you see it or do you, like others, just throw the words away and substitute other verses?

 

[Saint]

Romans 7:19-25
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

Many use verse 24 and 25 to indicate that God changes man into a sinlees man. But the verses do not say that. Jesus delivered us from our bodies of sin by paying the price for those sins on the cross.

It is obvious that man is not made sinless in the flesh when you see the last 7 words in verse 25.

Can you see it or do you, like others, just throw the words away and substitute other verses?

Hi Richard; I didn't say sinless but to sin willfully , there is a differance. However you will have to admitt that there is a wide range of maturity in the brothers as they develop.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[mark s]

I didn't call you anything except man.

Technically, yes, I will agree with you. But is there any question about what you are actually saying? Not in my mind. It's like hit and run. You can say what you want, then come back and say, Oh, I didn't actually say that.

Your response is a good example of how pantywaist Christianity has institutionalized denial of non-codified truth to the point that its followers call speaking confrontational truths slurs, name calling, insults and personal attacks, even when those truths are mild in comparison to words uttered by the man they claim to follow.

Go back to what I quoted from Paul's rebuke to Peter. Can you see any differences between his style and yours?

Go back to our specific instructions in the New Testament. You skipped over them before.

Anyway . . . I had my say.

I'll let the reader judge for themself.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

... so the question is, how do we define sin outside of the commandments of YHWH?

... whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23​

 

[Saint]

Does not Romans 14 deal with indifferent things like eating, drinking and keeping certain days rather than the moral issues? If someone had wronged me and if I had the faith that I was right then I could not forgive them or even murder them if I was working strictly on faith.

Paul covers in Romans 13 the moral issues and while he says that love is the over riding component they are still based upon the Ten Commandments does he not? Without those commandments we would not know how to treat those we love, that is our rule book.

For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Rom 13:9-10 ESV)


In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

... if I had the faith that I was right ...

Don't confuse belief with the faith of Christ, which is what Paul was referring to. Christ only did what he heard from the father via the spirit. Faith (as contrasted with belief) is a sixth sense, so to speak, that hears the voice of the spirit. Belief is a mental attitude.

From what I've just said, I may owe an apology to Episkopos. He said somewhere that faith was an awareness of God. I replied that faith was trust in God. But it appears that an awareness, or sense as I have described it, is a component of faith; relying on that sense being the other crucial component, of course.

 

[jiggyfly]

Does not Romans 14 deal with indifferent things like eating, drinking and keeping certain days rather than the moral issues? If someone had wronged me and if I had the faith that I was right then I could not forgive them or even murder them if I was working strictly on faith.

Paul covers in Romans 13 the moral issues and while he says that love is the over riding component they are still based upon the Ten Commandments does he not? Without those commandments we would not know how to treat those we love, that is our rule book.

For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Rom 13:9-10 ESV)


In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

Have you heard of HolySpirit?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul covers in Romans 13 the moral issues and while he says that love is the over riding component they are still based upon the Ten Commandments does he not? Without those commandments we would not know how to treat those we love, that is our rule book.

I never think about the 10 commandments, except perhaps for occasional study purposes. I strive to live by the rule, do to others as you would have them do to yourself. Do you think there is a law greater than this?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12​

 

[Saint]

I would bet that you can recite the commandments by heart; they have been a part of your studies every since you began your walk. It might not be something you think about today but it’s kind of like walking, at some point in your life you had to learn how to walk. Our walk with Yeshua is based on Gods word and without it the Spirit would have nothing to instruct by.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I would bet that you can recite the commandments by heart; they have been a part of your studies every since you began your walk. It might not be something you think about today but it’s kind of like walking, at some point in your life you had to learn how to walk. Our walk with Yeshua is based on Gods word and without it the Spirit would have nothing to instruct by.

Well, of course, that's all true. I guess Matthew 7:12 is the fine tuning.

 

[jiggyfly]

The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

 

[mjrhealth]

In plain simple english. The Law was given to the Israelites, the Jews. to show them that it was impossible to enter Gods Kingdom by trying to keep them. We are incapable.The Disciples where born under the law, being Jews, then set free from the law on Christs ressurection. We the gentiles where never given the law, it was not for us, we came to Christ by Grace, read Peters dream about the sheet and the animals, that is when they where sent to preach to the gentiles. If you keep one law, you must keep them all, then you will be judged by that law, and being human you will fail, or simple live by the Grace of God that was freely given to you, no charge, all taken care of.

Stop trying to add to the price Jesus paid, was His life not enough for you, can you do better.

Run to Him now befoe you run out of time.

In His Love

 

[mark s]

Amen!

 

[Saint]

Are we commanded to love and obey God? Does that command still apply to us today? Have we been placed under the authority of God the Father and does He rule over us today?

Let me put it another way; in this secular world are we under the authority of the law and if we disobey it are we punished? It’s really no different in the Kingdom of God; we are under His authority and if we disobey His commandments we are subject to punishment. The difference is we are forgiven for unmeaning mistakes if we seek forgiveness. However if we continue to disobey with disregards to the law we are placed in prison.

I’m not a legalist but I am a realist.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob