Do We Have False Teachers {WE SURE DO}

[bbyrd009]

So what is the Bible to you?

ok, i'll answer differently this time. Imo the Bible is a collection of works told by masters of dialectic--or what we call "Eastern"--thought, who were concerned with leading people to God and nothing else, and who even chronicled their failure as a Nation representing God, because that is an intrinsic part of the story.

Imo Word will never tell you to violate any principles found in Scripture, but that is only from my limited experience there. The Bible will point you to Word, but may be "seen and not seen," which is imo a perfect analogy for those who grasp one passage as proof, while failing to consider another passage that tempers it, as a logical thinker who must have "proof" to believe something will invariably be attracted by, and practice.

And so naturally the first pastor to present his side to (you) seems correct, as, after all, he is quoting from Scripture, right, even if he is quoting in Olde Englyshe, which you do not speak, and struggle to even understand. Another thing to be suspicious of imo.

The Bible to me is the words in the lexicon, though, not like the KJV or whatever, not that the KJV is completely useless or anything, it just is not the Bible, as can be demonstrated when a single concept is mistranslated, and the Lex is intentionally deviated from.

 

[Mjh29]

ok, i'll answer differently this time. Imo the Bible is a collection of works told by masters of dialectic--or what we call "Eastern"--thought, who were concerned with leading people to God and nothing else, and who even chronicled their failure as a Nation representing God, because that is an intrinsic part of the story.

Imo Word will never tell you to violate any principles found in Scripture, but that is only from my limited experience there. The Bible will point you to Word, but may be "seen and not seen," which is imo a perfect analogy for those who grasp one passage as proof, while failing to consider another passage that tempers it, as a logical thinker who must have "proof" to believe something will invariably be attracted by, and practice.

And so naturally the first pastor to present his side to (you) seems correct, as, after all, he is quoting from Scripture, right, even if he is quoting in Olde Englyshe, which you do not speak, and struggle to even understand. Another thing to be suspicious of imo.

The Bible to me is the words in the lexicon, though, not like the KJV or whatever, not that the KJV is completely useless or anything, it just is not the Bible, as can be demonstrated when a single concept is mistranslated, and the Lex is intentionally deviated from.

Where did you find that in Scripture?

 

[bbyrd009]

Where did you find that in Scripture?

could you be more specific? ty

 

[Mjh29]

Those are your claims, but how and where are the supported by Scripture?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Lost? Who says Muslims are lost? You do, that's who. "Any spirit that admits Christ has come on the flesh is from God," but that is not good enough for you, i guess.

1 John 4:1-6 is about testing the spirits. While most educated scholars are taking verse 2 to mean denying that Jesus had ever come in the flesh, that is not the meaning of verse 2 if you read verse 3 together. Verse 2 uses the phrase "is come" meaning presently where the Spirit of Christ dwells. 1 John 4:2 is another way of saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 in Paul's test of faith that Jesus Christ is in us. And so in 1 John 4:3, in testing the spirits, when believers confess presently that the Spirit of Christ is not in us, BUT outside of them in the worship place; THAT is the spirit of the antichrist WHICH is IN THE WORLD.

That is the true message of 1 John 4:1-6 in testing the spirits as the Spirit of Christ is presently within us and any that testify otherwise as being outside of us or coming over us again and again and again after a sensational sign in the flesh; even the sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation but is the same supernatural tongue as found in the world in how they speak ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) IS the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world.

What if it is you who is lost, and just bawling "LordLord" over there? Hmm? How might we discern? Because tbh you are failing if the standard is humility lol. Not that i am any shining example there either.

Any works that deny Him ( Titus 1:15-16 ) , they will be denied ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) but even if they believe not any more or have their faith overthrown, He is faithful for He still abides which is why those saints left behind for being found in iniquity, He will gather them again after the great tribulation for they have His seal and He still dwells within them ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ) but they shall be as vessels unto dishonor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) unless they repent with His help in time before the Bridegroom comes to judge His House at the pre trib rapture event as Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:4-30 testifies to.

i hope you see that i am not really advocating my beliefs here at the moment, at least not directly. But pride and entitlement are difficult things to address. I have no doubt that you are a basically good person, who seeks God, ok; even if you are at present hopelessly lost. I will keep you in my prayers too awright.



see how that works?

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The muslims do not believe that Jesus is God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So the muslims are lost, and they need Jesus as their Saviour; not a token prophet to believe in before the prophet, Mohammud, who taught his followers to kill whereas Jesus did not, but prophesied that one day, people will think they are doing God's service in killing us, because they do not know the Father nor Jesus.

And yes, believers that have killed in His name did not know the Father nor Jesus, thus were led astray. Unless they have repented and had asked for forgiveness when they come to this knowledge before their deaths, and God only knows; those that have died in Christ & those that are alive in Christ, remaining, run the risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes.

Those saints who serve in the military are exempt, unless they have killed with evil desires which again God only knows. Then there is a problem of that military oath which binds the saint to military service. They should ask for forgiveness and be set free from their oath. They really do not need to make an oath to serve in the military when they do everything by faith in Jesus Christ & the grace of God.

Making commitments or promises that binds any one on earth is a snare that believers need Jesus's forgiveness and for Him to release them from it.

Marriage oaths are not found in the Bible at all. Marriage is a covenant that God performs. He joins the two together. Vows of love is boastful which is not what love is. A lot of believers are not heeding His words to respect the marriage covenant nor the New Covenant when they add to His words of what Christ has done, will do, and shall finish to His glory that all believers should be resting in Him for.

So we are truly living in the latter days when faith is hard to find as the just can only live by faith in Jesus Christ for all things.

 

[bbyrd009]

Those are your claims, but how and where are the supported by Scripture?

well, dialecticism is revealed in the fact that you cannot name a single unassailable doctrine from Scripture--which does not mean that they are completely untrue, either; "who were concerned with leading people to God and nothing else" is revealed in the fact that no soft-peddling of the nature of their failure is kept from us--we are plainly told that what God warned the Israelites would be the cost of disobeying God's commands is what actually happened, and the spiritual symbology is not violated anywhere in order to make the Israelites look better, or for that matter in Paul either, who def seems to be in opposition to Christ in many passages, if read from a logical pov; and finally it should be self evident that one person might hold up a KJV and define it as "Bible," with the further desire to have it proclaimed infallible and inspired, when God did not inspire the KJV, but the Hebrew words in the Lexicon, whether they are at odds with Queenie or not, and they quite often are.

 

[bbyrd009]

The muslims do not believe that Jesus is God.

works fine for me, because Jesus is not God anyway, and neither is Christ; God is the Head of Christ, and lots of other things, but this making Jesus into God is the same spirit as making the "Bible" infallible and inspired, only you get to define "Bible" and not me, see, the point being to divide, or if that is not so clear, to make your beliefs appear to have some imprimatur that does not exist, for the purposes of making yourself Supreme, and dividing yourself from anyone who does not agree with you. Please insert "oneself" for "yourself" in there, as i am speaking generally and do not mean to make any comments on your walk ok, just what you have been told is truth.

So, briefly, it is debatable even among Christians whether Jesus is God or not, and it is not debatable even among Muslims that one must follow Christ or be doomed, regardless of whether they talk about Christ the same as you or not.

 

[bbyrd009]

So the muslims are lost, and they need Jesus as their Saviour

imo i would be not worrying so much about another man's servant, and judging people based on the direct other side of the planet where you are an intruder and interloper, and maybe worrying a bit more about all the Nehushtan worshippers in your own ranks, but that is certainly up to you.

Muslims are not lost, see, likely because they have a better concept of salvation, and they are not trying to get "saved" based upon some checklist of altar works so that they can like put that on their CV or resume or whatever lol, like Christians do. Detestable practice, straight from hell. Vastly misrepresents salvation.

i know you are married to it, and i don't mean to disparage your beliefs ok, but you might at least reflect upon how dead some of these practices are compared to Gospel, which that is not ok.

Believe it as long as you like, but you must view the rest of humanity as "them," iow you likely need an enemy in order to be perceived as being in the right, which after all is just what humans have been doing for millennia.

In that context i would ask how this model varies from the Pharisees Prayer in the least? It is strictly a way to claim the best seat at the table. What will you answer when you hear "Remember, in life you had all of the good things?"

Unless you can say with a straight face that Muslims are actually competing with you in the world on some equal level, like Stranger, complaining about situations that cannot be substantiated except from links from somewhere else, no personal witness at all in the matter.

Actually even worse, as no one reading this will testify to any of the thousands of Muslims they are surrounded by now so much as knocking on their doors to borrow a cup of sugar lol let alone to witness any complaints.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

works fine for me, because Jesus is not God anyway, and neither is Christ; God is the Head of Christ, and lots of other things, but this making Jesus into God is the same spirit as making the "Bible" infallible and inspired, only you get to define "Bible" and not me, see, the point being to divide, or if that is not so clear, to make your beliefs appear to have some imprimatur that does not exist, for the purposes of making yourself Supreme, and dividing yourself from anyone who does not agree with you. Please insert "oneself" for "yourself" in there, as i am speaking generally and do not mean to make any comments on your walk ok, just what you have been told is truth.

So, briefly, it is debatable even among Christians whether Jesus is God or not, and it is not debatable even among Muslims that one must follow Christ or be doomed, regardless of whether they talk about Christ the same as you or not.

Try reading His words and not mine own or anybody else's.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Why were they taking up stones to kill Him for? Another incident below..

John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

Jesus Before His incarnation that Moses had written of Him about.

Jesus Before His Incarnation

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

imo i would be not worrying so much about another man's servant, and judging people based on the direct other side of the planet where you are an intruder and interloper, and maybe worrying a bit more about all the Nehushtan worshippers in your own ranks, but that is certainly up to you.

Muslims are not lost, see, likely because they have a better concept of salvation, and they are not trying to get "saved" based upon some checklist of altar works so that they can like put that on their CV or resume or whatever lol, like Christians do. Detestable practice, straight from hell. Vastly misrepresents salvation.

Muslim holy book; the Quran, testifies that all muslims go to hell. It is why it was written that even Muhammud did not know what Allah will do to him, even though he was Allah's prophet.

I really do not know why any muslim would want to be a muslim if they read the Quran from cover to cover. Nope.

Will All Muslims Go To Hell According To The Quran?

Paul said this;

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I am treating Islam and that farse of a "holy book" in representing God as another gospel to be rejected. Hopefully, He will help you see that too.

 

[bbyrd009]

Muslim holy book; the Quran, testifies that all muslims go to hell.

horse puckey. Hell is an invention of scribes--through Greek and then Norse mythology--who had no better alliterations for Gehenna when translating the Book into English. You might ask yourself why Greek gods (Hades)--whose mythology does not even contain a place of punishment or fire btw--are even being referenced in Scripture? Hell is a uniquely Christian invention, and no other religion ascribes to it that i am aware of, and i am confident that you cannot quote this, at least categorically.

They might have some analogue of "saved, as if from a fire," the same as we do, but it is twisting to say that all Muslims believe they are going to hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

I really do not know why any muslim would want to be a muslim if they read the Quran from cover to cover. Nope.

i really do not know why we are even discussing Muslims, after we have been told not to be judging another man's servant anyway, and neither of us has any practical relationship to any Muslims, not even those who are our next-door neighbors.

i mean, Klan much? lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am treating Islam and that farse of a "holy book" in representing God as another gospel to be rejected. Hopefully, He will help you see that too.

yet no other Gospel is named, or forwarded, and the Qur'an will plainly tell you to follow Christ, so again i would be worrying more about the Nehushtan worshippers--who have supposedly found some "Hell" in Scripture, only it disappears when you look very close--who cleave to a Snake on a Pole that was lifted up for them, to be exposed for what they are which is mostly i guess bigots like you.

See no one except your Klan buddies even cares what you think about Islam, and after you admit that you have no personal complaints against any of them at all, you can either get a clue and sit down, or keep up the ignorant ranting that you cannot substantiate.

You wanna complain we got plenty of Papists here and God forbid even some Calvin worshippers i guess

talk about an undesirable position

 

[bbyrd009]

blahblahblah everyone who does not believe in lock-step with me is wrong etc ad nauseum

are you even aware of Nehushtan, bro? Meaning could you explain Nehushtan to me without going and looking it up? Tell me some more about all you know of the people on the 180 degree other side of the planet lol

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

horse puckey.

LOL

Hell is an invention of scribes--through Greek and then Norse mythology--who had no better alliterations for Gehenna when translating the Book into English. You might ask yourself why Greek gods (Hades)--whose mythology does not even contain a place of punishment or fire btw--are even being referenced in Scripture? Hell is a uniquely Christian invention, and no other religion ascribes to it that i am aware of, and i am confident that you cannot quote this, at least categorically.

Then you are not aware of it even though I had posted to you that it is the Quran that is saying all muslims are going to hell.

You did not bother to go to the link that was discussing what the Quran actually says, did you? Here it is again below:

Will All Muslims Go To Hell According To The Quran?

Sahih International versions says this in the Quran in 19:68 "So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees."

There. I underlined it for you the word "Hell". Now you know.

Then the Sahih International says this in the Quran 19:69Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.
70 Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.
71And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.
72 Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.

If Allah decreed it, who is the we that will save those who feared Allah if Allah is not the One God pulling them out of it?

Can't be other muslims that have gone on before them because then, who pulled them out?

They might have some analogue of "saved, as if from a fire," the same as we do, but it is twisting to say that all Muslims believe they are going to hell.

Read it and weep for the muslims. Verse 71 in Quran says there is no exception which was why the "prophet" Muhammud was worried.

Anyway... hardly a christian creation.

Learned something new today, huh?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

i really do not know why we are even discussing Muslims, after we have been told not to be judging another man's servant anyway, and neither of us has any practical relationship to any Muslims, not even those who are our next-door neighbors.

i mean, Klan much? lol.

Look in a mirror much? Are you not doing the same thing, regardless of any one judging another man's servant ( as if you are applying that verse right and you are not ) ?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

yet no other Gospel is named, or forwarded, and the Qur'an will plainly tell you to follow Christ, so again i would be worrying more about the Nehushtan worshippers--who have supposedly found some "Hell" in Scripture, only it disappears when you look very close--who cleave to a Snake on a Pole that was lifted up for them, to be exposed for what they are which is mostly i guess bigots like you.

Bigots like me? Well, if you mean not compromising to every Harry, Dick, and Moe that comes along, then yeah.. I am a bigot. But I am not the one killing them for not following Islam.

See no one except your Klan buddies even cares what you think about Islam, and after you admit that you have no personal complaints against any of them at all, you can either get a clue and sit down, or keep up the ignorant ranting that you cannot substantiate.

You admit you do not know everything and yet.. feel free to judge on that basis?

The Quran teaches followers of Islam to kill christians, Jews, & infidels. The early part of the Quran says to follow Jesus, but later on, when christians were not accepting that commandment in the Quran to follow Jesus; hence their Islamic Jesus, then Muhammud taught that muslims were to kill christians along with others that were not buying into Muhammud's compromises to get everybody to follow Islam and his "moon god, Allah" which he was a member of that religious sect before they had destroyed all the other idols at Mecca and got away with it because his sect was the largest religious sect to make their moon god Allah, the one "true" god Allah which was never the One God of the Old Testament nor the New.

You wanna complain we got plenty of Papists here and God forbid even some Calvin worshippers i guess

talk about an undesirable position

An undesireable position is that if you do not stand for the Truth, you will fall for anything and quite possibly everything.

Jesus had warned of false prophets coming into the churches to lead many astray and it will be worse in the latter days before His appearing at the pre trib rapture event when He comes to judge His House first, leaving many saved believers behind for being in iniquity to receive them later on after the great tribulation.

So until you get to know Jesus, I reckon you will just hop around here, spouting as if you know enough to judge everything and any one that judges people, and thus you are judging people, but yet you have no truth to judge people from to do so.

That is an undesirable and bigoted position, is it not? Or can intellectual people able to see their own hypocrisy?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

are you even aware of Nehushtan, bro? Meaning could you explain Nehushtan to me without going and looking it up? Tell me some more about all you know of the people on the 180 degree other side of the planet lol

You do not know about Islam to know it is false nor christianity to know that Jesus is the Truth. So why should I look up something you pulled out of history to claim "rip off" by christianity? I would not doubt that there are some similarities, but so what?

There are a lot of other claims that christianity & parts of the Bible has been made up from and not just from Nehushtan. Funny how putting them altogether, we can pull out stuff that christianity had come from, but no cigar there, because Jesus has risen from the dead; and the O.T. had prophesied His coming, death, and resurrection. You cannot get reality from any such stories made up in history when there would be no christianity if Christ had not risen at all.

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

The Book of Zechariah is in the Old Testament prophesying of the day when the rest of the Jews ( and not just the 144,000 Jewish witnesses for the great tribulation + the 2 witnesses in Jerusalem for they will know this before He comes ) will realize that they had crucified their Messiah when He returns with the pre raptured saints at the end of the great tribulation.

Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

BTW Creation is not continuous. It has been set in motion from creation, but the actual act of creation ended the sixth day when God rested the seventh day. Stars being born and so forth are what God had set in motion to be created, thus not creation itself.

Punctuated Equilibrum or "Rapid Macroevolution" was proposed by Stephen Jay Gould because there was a huge gap of transitional fossils in the fossil records for gradual macroevolution to be true. He surmised that around the pre-Cambrian or Cambrian period was a time of a global flood as this was the cause for the explosion in the fossil records.

The only problem is... they can't prove anything passed human history by their dating method, but the Bible can confirm the findings in Genesis of Noah's ark and the global flood which is why they are finding mass graves of fossilizied whale bones with other fossilized marine life on mountaintops WITH fossilized land animal bones at various places over the world; starting at the Andes mountains.

So macro evolution which is really what the evolution theory is about... is false. Micro evolution will always produce micro evolution. It is just a borrowed term from the Law of Biogenesis to make macro evolution believable and Punctuaded Equilibrium has already been proposed to disprove gradual macroevolution of its way of micorevolution spread out over hundreds of millions of years.

If stands to reason that spontaneous generation is false within view of human history, then it is equally false as not seen beyond human history but that is what the evolution theory is spinning that fairy tale about.

But I digress...

 

[skyangel]

another good reflection imo. You can search Scripture, and you will find Word associated with Christ, and Gospel, and i think Holy Spirit, if i remember correctly, but not Bible. All things that we have trouble defining, iow.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

TRUTH is everywhere in REALITY all around us. It can never ALL be contained in one book.

 

[bbyrd009]

Then you are not aware of it even though I had posted to you that it is the Quran that is saying all muslims are going to hell.

ah, i was already peripherally aware of this Christian assertion, made by the same people who would assure me that Paul was suicidal or whatever, craved death in order to be "present with the Lord," and i give both equal weight.

There. I underlined it for you the word "Hell". Now you know.

lol, ok ty. Have a nice day.