Do we need prophets, today?

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Pathfinder7

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I'm not actually fighting the issue. All I am doing is stating the Scriptural qualifications of a true apostle of the church. There were only the Apostles of Christ who lived in the 1st Century, who were directly appointed and commissioned by the risen Christ. None of those exist today.

But apostles of the church can still exist today if they are appointed by the Holy Spirit in much the same as Paul and Barnabas were commissioned through the group of teachers and prophets at Antioch where the Holy Spirit said, "Separate to me, Barnabas and Paul for the work I have called them." In my view, the validation that the Holy Spirit has genuinely appointed a person to be an apostle to the church is that his ministry is accompanied by signs and wonders. If the miraculous healing and deliverance is absent, then there is nothing to validate the claim that the ministry has been appointed other than by men in charge of the particular denomination that "apostle" is working in.

Any denomination can appoint an itinerate ministry to go around the churches of that denomination to confirm the saints in the faith and to glorify the grace of Christ as much as he is able. He could be called an apostle, but an apostle of that denomination, and not of the wider body of Christ.

Another qualification of an apostle is that he preaches the Gospel throughout the world and plants churches. John Wesley fitted that description because he spent most of his ministry itinerating between towns and cities and there were 250 cases of miraculous healing in the course of his ministry.

So, there is a wide difference between being called an apostle and actually being one according to Scripture.
"John Wesley fitted that description.."
- Good point.
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The issue is..
- People focus on 'the title'.. too much.
- For recognition, status, etc..
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There are Christian leaders/workers involved in 'pioneer missions' work in difficult places..
- In countries.. where 'traditional missionaries' from overseas are not allowed..
They are not into..titles, status, recognition, etc..
My perspective is..they are doing 'apostolic ministry/mission' work.
----
I have been working with Christian leaders in 'restricted' countries.
 

Waiting on him

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I like Calvin's description of an apostle at the start of his commentary on 1 Corinthians. He says it is not enough to be called an apostle, he has to be one.

He says an apostle is one who preaches the Gospel and his preaching is validated by signs and wonders. His definition has influenced me to believe that there are no real apostles today, because we don't see anyone who is going into all the world preaching the Gospel with the Holy Spirit supporting his preaching with signs and wonders.
Not to mention also these men literally witnessed a resurrected Christ.
 

amigo de christo

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Although we need apostles and prophets today, we don't have them. Because of the divided nature of our churches into separate denominations, it is impossible to have an apostle or prophet that is fully recognised by all the the body of Christ. Just because a Bible teacher calls himself an apostle, or a Charismatic group calls him one, it doesn't mean that he actually is one according to the Scripture standard.

Also, an apostle has to go into all the world and preach the Gospel with signs and wonders following, not just to groups in a specific movement such as the Charismatic movement.

Also, the prophecies of a true prophet need to bring conviction of sin to the unsaved and show them that they need Christ. In this way he works alongside the apostle and evangelist.

Even the evangelist, pastor and teacher in our churches are not true five-fold ministries. They all have to be recognised across the whole body of Christ and just parts of it. A church can have its own prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher, but because they are confined to their own denomination, and therefore cannot be described as part of the five-fold ministries described by 1 Corinthians 12. These ministries are for the whole church not just for Charismatics or Evangelicals exclusively.

Anyone in today's churches who calls himself an apostle or prophet is just pretending to be one and cannot produce any validation from the Holy Spirit.
True prophets are often not recognized at all and often rejected . Look throughout biblical history .
Every time a coming judgment was on the way , the big number false prophets were hollering we shall have peace , peace and safety .
The very few were warning , REPENT lest ye go under judgment . Sounds just like today .
Most prophets i see are hollering about some big end time we are one world unity gathering , and we shall have peace ,
But all i see is coming judgment and that time indeed is running out . But folks dont listen to those who warn .
The sheep will always hear the truth , the rest will not . And i plead with every man , woman and child
A confusion of faces delusional judgment has already began . And most for peace and unity are falling right for its trap .
Look at the signs of the times . Some years back they started taking God out of schools , out of public places
they wanted no reminder of Him in their conscious . SO now look . A reprobate mind has occured in many
and quickly it does grow . For even as they did not like to retain GOD in their conscious , so He gave them over to a reprobate mind
to do such things . AND YET still GOD is longsuffering , still HE desires the wicked to repent . But time is running out my friends .
ITS Running OUT . And worse many are already going under one strong we are one all inclusive unity spell .
The true lambs will face persecutions in the days ahead . And i dont mean just in china or iran or korea .
WE will be persecuted by even those who would call themselves christain . Beware and be on gaurd .
For this all inclusive unity move , is total bad news for all who go under it . We had better stick to the original gospel
and correct those who do err . Stick to the original pattern . Learn those bibles well . very well . Learn that JESUS
learn what the apostles taught . For many deceivers do abound and this we are one movement is fast taking over everything .
Test all things that men do teach , test all who do prophesy , know those bibles . FOr while there are still true prophets
The overwhelming vast number of them are flat out false . Watch out . Be on gaurd . And let us always be thanking our LORD
Be ye HOLY , follow the Spirit and not the flesh . You all are dearly loved .
 

Paul Christensen

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Not to mention also these men literally witnessed a resurrected Christ.
This is why modern apostles cannot equate themselves with the Apostles of Christ who were a special group who were inspired by the Holy Spirit to form the New Testament.

The test for a modern apostle is: Do sick and disabled people get healed and demons get cast out of occult pagans as part of their preaching of the Gospel of Christ? How many official, modern "apostles" have those characteristics?

Also, the ministry of a Prophet is to speak out the Word of God to show the unsaved that they are in sin and need to repent and believe the Gospel of Christ; not to give predictive "prophecies to the nation". John the Baptizer would be a good model, because he preached, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand."
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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There are prophesies of the OT that are yet to be fulfilled..
Of course a prophet could not be judged on future prophecies.
Prophets were tested with imminent predictions, events that could be verified within months or years. Certaining if Joseph was wrong about the coming famine, that would have been it for him. Moses predicted imminent plagues, Jonah imminent destruction, etc.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Not to mention also these men literally witnessed a resurrected Christ.

question...did Paul literally witness the resurrected Christ as the others? In Acts 23:8-11 did Christ literally stand by Paul saying “be of good cheer, Paul”?

“For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both. [9] And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God. [10] And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle. [11] And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.”
 

Waiting on him

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question...did Paul literally witness the resurrected Christ as the others? In Acts 23:8-11 did Christ literally stand by Paul saying “be of good cheer, Paul”?

“For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both. [9] And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God. [10] And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle. [11] And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.”
I believe he literally witnessed Him.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I believe he literally witnessed Him.

you know I’m not good at time period of Paul with the other disciples. if I understand correctly the disciples saw Jesus Christ prior to his ascending to the Father? but the apostle Paul, when he saw Christ on the road was after Jesus Christ return to the Father and sending the comforter or before?
 

Waiting on him

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you know I’m not good at time period of Paul with the other disciples. if I understand correctly the disciples saw Jesus Christ prior to his ascending to the Father? but the apostle Paul, when he saw Christ on the road was after Jesus Christ return to the Father and sending the comforter or before?
Paul’s witness of Christ was after Pentecost.
I personally believe that the so called modern prophets is no more than divination being practiced by the occult.

The scriptures proclaim we no longer need men to intercede on our behalf with God, we are before the throne of Grace and have no need that any man teach us. The Holy Spirit within bares witness to our spirit.
 

Enoch111

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question...did Paul literally witness the resurrected Christ as the others? In Acts 23:8-11 did Christ literally stand by Paul saying “be of good cheer, Paul”?
Why not? And what about all the time Paul spent in Arabia? The Lord visited him there all the time: But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

'"...but by the revelation of Jesus Christ"; meaning, not through Christ being revealed to him by the Father, as in Galatians 1:16 though it is a sense not to be overlooked; but by Christ, the revealer of it to him'
(John Gill's Commentary)
 

VictoryinJesus

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Paul’s witness of Christ was after Pentecost.
I personally believe that the so called modern prophets is no more than divination being practiced by the occult.

My question is: if Paul spoke with Christ after Jesus Christ was taken up into the cloud...then when did Christ return to speak, walk, and stand with Paul?
 

VictoryinJesus

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Why not? And what about all the time Paul spent in Arabia? The Lord visited him there all the time: But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

'"...but by the revelation of Jesus Christ"; meaning, not through Christ being revealed to him by the Father, as in Galatians 1:16 though it is a sense not to be overlooked; but by Christ, the revealer of it to him'
(John Gill's Commentary)


Hebrews 11:27 By faith he (Moses)forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

that is ...o_O Hebrews 11:27 Lexicon: By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.
 

VictoryinJesus

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When He empowered Paul to believe.


Acts 22:6-9 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. [7] And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [8] And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. [9] And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
 

Waiting on him

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Acts 22:6-9 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. [7] And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [8] And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. [9] And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Yep He enters in.
 

Heart2Soul

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Of course a prophet could not be judged in future prophecies.
Prophets were tested with imminent predictions, events that,could be verified within months or years. Certaining if Joseph was wrong about the coming famine, that would have been it for him. Moses predicted imminent plagues, Jonah imminent destruction, etc.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
There are prophesies that are for an immediate future and others for a distant.
 
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Waiting on him

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Acts 22:6-9 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. [7] And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [8] And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. [9] And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
It’s kinda like what you said earlier today, Paul tells them you have no need of an epistle from me to tell you how to love one another, because they were taught of God, just as Paul. Most today don’t hear from God either because they don’t believe they can hear from Him or they just simply prefer to hear only what men have to say.

For some men this is great news, because they need their praise due to the fact they are shallow and insecure.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Why do we need prophets when we have the bible? Well, the simple answer is it is one of the gifts Jesus gave to the church to help equip us until He returns. (Ephesians 4: 9-16)

There are many attributes to this gift and one of them covered in this video is timing. Will you listen? Will you prepare and be ready? God uses prophets to tell us what time it is. Another way of saying it is -Do you know what time it is? And will you be ready?

Hey honey, "Do you know all the money you borrowed and gambled away, well the bill is coming due to pay it back! what are you going to do about it?"

Do we need prophets?
What other useful attributes of a prophet have you thought of?
Or do we need Jesus’s ministry at all today or can we each go it on our own? What do think?
Here’s a short video on some thoughts on that subject I made.

https://youtu.be/TZP3lDcPhQ8

Enjoyed the video. I was one who has been somewhat skeptical about the "prophets" in our time, but nevertheless believed they were there, and actually wanted them to be there. Being more of a teacher myself, I wanted my teaching to have a "prophetic spirit," to speak in a timely way, to capture the Spirit of Christ in the moment.

But I got all caught up in the political fever in the last election season, and swallowed whole what some of "the prophets" were saying. When Trump lost the election, I was devastated, and retreated to my humble cave, with respect to any more thoughts about the prophets today.

But I continue to be a strong believer in a "prophetic spirit," and I do believe some are gifted in the area of "prophecy" today. I've seen evidence of this ministry of one kind or another over several decades. I just have trouble figuring out how the prophets and I could've been so wrong in the last election cycle?

I've never seen so much Antichristian behavior in a major political party, and get away with it, speaking of the Democrats. God seemed to let them push forward their typical election lies and propaganda, just like Antichrist himself will be given a short season to seem "victorious."

But I like how you say that the prophets are sort of like time-keepers--they let us know the "time." Perhaps we all are learning to die more to ourselves so that we hear not what we want to hear, but only what the Lord Himself is actually saying, for better or for worse? Thanks for your thoughts. These were mine.
 
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Enoch111

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When Trump lost the election...
There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between "lost the election" and "had the election victory stolen from under him". The prophets were right all along in that Trump would be the winner, but no one imagined in their wildest dreams that massive election fraud could take place in America, and that the fraudsters could actually get away with it!

Biden is an IMPOSTER, and if there was even one army general with the guts to do the right thing, he would have Biden and Harris arrested for treason and fraud (as well as multiple crimes and felonies). A military tribunal might be the only place where justice could now be expected. But the armed forces have also been subverted.

Personally I believe that the apostle John wrote FINIS to all genuine prophecies when he closed the book of Revelation. But if people get a kick out of talking about prophets and prophesies, that is their prerogative. Christ warned us about false prophets, but those who have itching ears will fall for them.
 

Randy Kluth

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There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between "lost the election" and "had the election victory stolen from under him". The prophets were right all along in that Trump would be the winner, but no one imagined in their wildest dreams that massive election fraud could take place in America, and that the fraudsters could actually get away with it!

Biden is an IMPOSTER, and if there was even one army general with the guts to do the right thing, he would have Biden and Harris arrested for treason and fraud (as well as multiple crimes and felonies). A military tribunal might be the only place where justice could now be expected. But the armed forces have also been subverted.

Personally I believe that the apostle John wrote FINIS to all genuine prophecies when he closed the book of Revelation. But if people get a kick out of talking about prophets and prophesies, that is their prerogative. Christ warned us about false prophets, but those who have itching ears will fall for them.

I agree that Biden is a "fraud" of some kind. He certainly seems incapable of overseeing a righteous government. His party is anti-Christian, anti-Israel, and anti-American! They are for dividing America, letting illegals enter our country, and for selling out to foreign enemies.

But it is what it is. As for "prophets," I don't see why if God used them in ancient times he wouldn't use them today? Paul certainly referred to "prophets" in his own time, and that was the age of the Church.

I just don't happen to believe that these gifts are something that Christians can simply take upon themselves at will. We are supposed to strive for the higher gifts, but only within the gifts that the Holy Spirit has specifically gifted us with. Not everyone has the option of being an apostle or a prophet!

I do think the "foundation" of the Church was built in the Early Church. But then again, foundations have to be built in every new nation that Christianity enters into. It's just that Christian doctrine never changes. That foundation has been built, and is why we rely so heavily on the NT Bible. It's dangerous to neglect the teaching of the apostles.

That being said, the Prophets of the OT weren't a threat to change theology in their time either. The Law of Moses did not change simply because prophets came along. They prophesied within the confines of the theology of the Law. Similarly, why can't prophets be called of God and prophesy within the confines of the theology of the New Testament? Just because we don't see this ministry often doesn't mean it can't or doesn't happen.

I think the big problem is that God doesn't give many prophets when Christian society is morally lax and materialistic. And when there is a genuine interest in spiritual things, pride takes over, and everybody thinks he can become a prophet. Can you say "Pentecostal Movement?" ;)

Well, I've been in the Pentecostal Movement for many years now, and have seen some pretty "prophetic" things. However, I don't agree with the doctrine that says we can all have all the gifts. Unfortunately, that is Pentecostal Teaching, and so we have everybody's mother's child claiming to be a pastor, teacher, and prophet. I can't blame you, in this regard, if you have a problem with the "prophets." ;)