Do we need prophets, today?

[Paul Christensen]

Although we need apostles and prophets today, we don't have them. Because of the divided nature of our churches into separate denominations, it is impossible to have an apostle or prophet that is fully recognised by all the the body of Christ. Just because a Bible teacher calls himself an apostle, or a Charismatic group calls him one, it doesn't mean that he actually is one according to the Scripture standard.

Also, an apostle has to go into all the world and preach the Gospel with signs and wonders following, not just to groups in a specific movement such as the Charismatic movement.

Also, the prophecies of a true prophet need to bring conviction of sin to the unsaved and show them that they need Christ. In this way he works alongside the apostle and evangelist.

Even the evangelist, pastor and teacher in our churches are not true five-fold ministries. They all have to be recognised across the whole body of Christ and just parts of it. A church can have its own prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher, but because they are confined to their own denomination, and therefore cannot be described as part of the five-fold ministries described by 1 Corinthians 12. These ministries are for the whole church not just for Charismatics or Evangelicals exclusively.

Anyone in today's churches who calls himself an apostle or prophet is just pretending to be one and cannot produce any validation from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

We need His Church to be restored as He established it to be and how to function.....their are 5 offices of the church...why are these needed? For the perfecting of the saints until we all come into unity of faith...remove one of the offices then you have offended God and how He determined His church to operate.....
When the Holy Spirit fell upon the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, the church of Jesus Christ was birthed. The ministry of the church also began on this same day when Apostle Peter rose up and spoke the word that resulted in 3000 people being saved and baptised.
A divinely-called and Scripturally-ordained ministry has been provided by our Lord for the threefold purpose of leading the church:
1. Evangelisation of the world – (Mark 16:15-20 )
2. Worship of God in Spirit and truth – (John 4:23-24 )
3. Building a Body of saints being perfected in the image of His Son – (Ephesians 4:11-16 )

Apostle Paul introduces various offices as Christ’s gifts by quoting from Psalm 68:18 : When He ascended on high, He led captives in His train and gave gifts to men. The gifts given to men are apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (Ephesians 4:11 ).

You missed out one criterion. An apostle has to be validated by the Holy Spirit through signs and wonders as part of his preaching of the Gospel of Christ. No healing of sick and disabled people, no apostleship. A real apostle's ministry will feature people getting out of wheelchairs, blind people getting their sight, cancers disappearing, heart conditions being healed, leprosy cleansed, etc.

 

[Enoch111]

Anyone in today's churches who calls himself an apostle or prophet is just pretending to be one and cannot produce any validation from the Holy Spirit.

I agree, and I already said the same thing. So where will we find the apostles and prophets? In Scripture itself. And if that is no enough, the people simply have itching ears. Also, evangelists, pastors, and teachers will be limited to a local church or a "denomination" (for want of a better term).

 

[Paul Christensen]

I agree, and I already said the same thing. So where will we find the apostles and prophets? In Scripture itself. And if that is no enough, the people simply have itching ears. Also, evangelists, pastors, and teachers will be limited to a local church or a "denomination" (for want of a better term).

I like Calvin's description of an apostle at the start of his commentary on 1 Corinthians. He says it is not enough to be called an apostle, he has to be one.

He says an apostle is one who preaches the Gospel and his preaching is validated by signs and wonders. His definition has influenced me to believe that there are no real apostles today, because we don't see anyone who is going into all the world preaching the Gospel with the Holy Spirit supporting his preaching with signs and wonders.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I like Calvin's description of an apostle at the start of his commentary on 1 Corinthians. He says it is not enough to be called an apostle, he has to be one.

He says an apostle is one who preaches the Gospel and his preaching is validated by signs and wonders. His definition has influenced me to believe that there are no real apostles today, because we don't see anyone who is going into all the world preaching the Gospel with the Holy Spirit supporting his preaching with signs and wonders.

But there are ministers out there delivering the Word of God and signs and wonders are following immediately after the people heard and believed and received it.
I believe that society today has caused our lives to become so complex and bound to work schedules, school functions, church services and functions, and this and that....all consuming our time and leaving very little time if any to spend with Him...and to attend a church service and expect a mighty move of the Holy Spirit while you are looking at your watch and trying to decide which restaurant you want to ear at after services are dismissed....and the pastor better not go a minute past the time to dismiss...
So here is what I have seen...the board members and congregation tells the pastor how services will be conducted leaving no room for the Holy Spirit to manifest.
But God is raising up those who are led of His Spirit and who dont adhere to schedules and board members and church members who try to tell him how they want services to be
No these who are called and chosen to be a part of restoring His Church are obedient to the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. They minister in the authority God gave them to lead His people back to His House of Worship...

So apostles didn't cease...religious ideology wouldn't allow them to be a part of their church.

 

[Mark Balicki]

I agree, and I already said the same thing. So where will we find the apostles and prophets? In Scripture itself. And if that is no enough, the people simply have itching ears. Also, evangelists, pastors, and teachers will be limited to a local church or a "denomination" (for want of a better term).

I like Calvin's description of an apostle at the start of his commentary on 1 Corinthians. He says it is not enough to be called an apostle, he has to be one.

He says an apostle is one who preaches the Gospel and his preaching is validated by signs and wonders. His definition has influenced me to believe that there are no real apostles today, because we don't see anyone who is going into all the world preaching the Gospel with the Holy Spirit supporting his preaching with signs and wonders.

You will find apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastor teachers them working in this world today with or without any fanfare, doing what the Lord has called them to do. They may not always where the name tag, but you can identify them by their work because God Spirit will make it evident. I think we miss them among us because we look for them to fulfill expectations we have. While we are looking and busy about other things, instead of working, many will never run into them because part of their work is to help equip the saints for work along with helping others grow in their knowledge of God. If working out one's faith to be pleasing to God isn't one's goal than there is no need for them, you can get along very well doing whatever you are doing, believing whatever you're believing and listening to whatever you are listening too. If you are following Jesus though you will run into those Jesus gave to the church to help you grow up in Christ.

 

[Heart2Soul]

What became of all those "prophets" who claimed that Trump would win a second term?? the very ones who persisted
even after the election that Trump would still win?? I don't seem to recall any recanting or even statements made about
their lack of accuracy?? Not being mean here... but truly ... What is the purpose of a prophet in this day and age...
@Hidden In Him ... I deeply respect you and I love your humility... so I would be open to hear what you have to say about
this.
I do believe we need wisdom (extra doses even ) when trying to decipher the book of revelation... but I think far too many people
refer themselves as God's anointed when in all reality... the only thing that seems to be anointed is their EGO. LOL

Trump won the election.....and God is still doing things that we will understand why at the right time.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

What became of all those "prophets" who claimed that Trump would win a second term?? the very ones who persisted
even after the election that Trump would still win?? I don't seem to recall any recanting or even statements made about
their lack of accuracy?? Not being mean here... but truly ... What is the purpose of a prophet in this day and age...
@Hidden In Him ... I deeply respect you and I love your humility... so I would be open to hear what you have to say about
this.
I do believe we need wisdom (extra doses even ) when trying to decipher the book of revelation... but I think far too many people
refer themselves as God's anointed when in all reality... the only thing that seems to be anointed is their EGO. LOL

The true test of a prophet in the Old Testament was that everything he claimed happened. If not, they would be stoned to death!
So does anyone know a prophet who is 100% accurate?
Prophets were needed because the Bible wasn't finished. So we are already given the signs. We recognize the signs and that's all we need.
No one is given special revelation to add to scripture. Also, people did not have God living in them as we do now. God will give us guidance personally and for those who aren't quite tuned in, others can come along and God can speak through them, giving guidance to that individual. Exhortation is good, a word of knowledge, pleading, warning people of things to come.
That said, the Bible speaks of false prophets and apparently this is what we are seeing. I forget that Asian guy who made all the claims about Trump, saying He would be president after the Military arrested thousands of people who were indicted ... Where did he get this from? He claims God, but I found sights that were spouting out verbatum everything he was saying. Truth11.com and bitchute.com. These writers delve in fiction and hopeful scenarios, sometimes are affiliated with QAnon ... OR
I think that these stories were fabricated to put the Right-wing folks in pause, so we would'nt riot. We bought into the possibility, had hope and waited months - as they claimed to see. While waiting we decompressed, adjusted and little by little accepted it. The outrage was defused - it worked. It was counter intelligence. And then of course they used Facebook and twitter to sensor out any pro-Trump talk, election fraud ...
I believe the Two Witnesses will be prophets, but the Church should be gone, and their job would be to evangelize the Jews. ??
I am not a prophet, but I can discern the times, know the Lord is coming - if not, you can't stone me, I didn't claim I was a prophet!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So called prophets who claimed Trump would be president:
Pat Robertson
Denis Goulet
Kat Kerr
Greg Lock
Mark Taylor
Taribo West
Kevin Zadai
Marcus Roberts
Paula White
Kris Vallaton
Curt Landry
Jeremiah Johnson

They claimed God spoke to them. Their credibility has been shot. Who will listen to them now ... Please do not stone these people, just don't bother listening. Actually I've only heard of two on the list. Didn't really trust Pat too much in the past.
I guess these folks consider themselves as having the gift of prophecy ... And now?

 

[Triumph1300]

Because of the divided nature of our churches into separate denominations, it is impossible to have an apostle or prophet that is fully recognised by all the the body of Christ.

Just because prophets are not recognised does not mean they are not here.
Satan caused the churches to be divided.
And we all know what the results have been through history.

 

[Triumph1300]

Biblical Prophesy is not the Christian Equivalent of Astrology or Fortune Telling.
The biblical prophesies don't just reveal events ahead of time, they remind us of GOD'S CONTROL over these events.
The objective is spiritual, to inspire people to put their trust in God for the future.
But of course when one attends a denomination rejecting the Gifts of the Spirit,
and believes this is true, there will not be more to discuss.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You will find apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastor teachers them working in this world today with or without any fanfare, doing what the Lord has called them to do. They may not always where the name tag, but you can identify them by their work because God Spirit will make it evident. I think we miss them among us because we look for them to fulfill expectations we have. While we are looking and busy about other things, instead of working, many will never run into them because part of their work is to help equip the saints for work along with helping others grow in their knowledge of God. If working out one's faith to be pleasing to God isn't one's goal than there is no need for them, you can get along very well doing whatever you are doing, believing whatever you're believing and listening to whatever you are listening too. If you are following Jesus though you will run into those Jesus gave to the church to help you grow up in Christ.

All sounds fine in theory and there are certainly great Christian workers around the world who are called apostles and prophets, but unless they fit the Scriptural definition of an apostle or prophet then they cannot be those in reality.

 

[Triumph1300]

All sounds fine in theory and there are certainly great Christian workers around the world who are called apostles and prophets

So....why are you fighting the issue?

 

[Heart2Soul]

The true test of a prophet in the Old Testament was that everything he claimed happened. If not, they would be stoned to death!

There are prophesies of the OT that are yet to be fulfilled.....who has the authority to put a time frame of when it has to come to pass?
Nebuchadnezzar's dream is a good example....especially referring to the iron mixed with clay...
Bible Questions Answered | GotQuestions.org

Daniel’s interpretation, given to him by God, explains that the statue represents a series of kingdoms, each less glorious than the one before, as indicated by the decreasing value of the metals. Daniel identifies Nebuchadnezzar as the head of gold, stating that God had given Nebuchadnezzar much power (Daniel 2:37-38). The next kingdom to arise will be inferior to Babylon, as will the next. “Finally, there will come a fourth kingdom, strong as iron. . . . It will crush and break all the others” (Daniel 2:40).

Finally, the feet of mixed clay and iron “will be a divided kingdom” (Daniel 2:41). During the time of this final world empire, the “rock” will smash them all to bits, a prediction that “God . . . will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed” (Daniel 2:44). All previous earthly kingdoms will be brought to an end.

The Dream 2,500+ Years Later
The first four kingdoms have been identified as the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman Empires. This identification has come from the workings of history matching further prophecies. Daniel already said that Babylon, specifically Nebuchadnezzar, was the head of gold (Daniel 2:38). Babylon fell to the kingdom of the Medes and the Persians (Daniel 5:26-31). Greece became the successor to the Medo-Persian Empire (Daniel 8:20-21; 10:20 - 11:14). The “iron” empire can only be Rome.
Opinions differ on the fifth empire. Some have tried to identify various periods in Europe’s history as the clay-and-iron feet; others claim the feet represent the divided remnants of Rome before supposedly being “conquered” by Christianity. Still others believe that the clay/iron empire is yet to come: the kingdom of the Antichrist will be a “revived Roman Empire.” The last theory seems to be the best. We know, according to Revelation 17:12-13, that the Antichrist will lead a coalition of ten nations (the statue’s ten toes?). And we know that Christ will defeat the forces of the Antichrist (Revelation 17:14). After that, Jesus will set up His kingdom—the rock smashes the image—and the kingdoms of this world will “become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 11:15).

Many scholars have contrasted Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2 with Daniel’s vision in chapter 7. Both passages reveal the coming world kingdoms, but the symbolism is strikingly different in each. The pagan king sees the kingdoms of this world as a towering work of art, impressive in size, value, and grandeur (albeit with feet of clay). God’s prophet sees the same kingdoms as bizarre, unnatural beasts, terrifying in aspect and behavior. It’s a difference of perspective: where man sees a stately, glittering tribute to himself, God sees a menagerie of aberrations. “Let us not be desirous of vain glory” (Galatians 5:26, KJV).

 

[Heart2Soul]

And the prophesy that says Damascus will be destroyed and be a city no more....it has been rebuilt 3 times....and it still remains a city today...that prophesy is soon coming to pass.

Prophets today can help the church ",connect the dots, so to speak"....
As well as expose darkness at work in the church...The Church of Thiatira mentioned in Revelation was blind to the false prophet operating among them....that woman Jezebel....a true prophet can recognize the false one and expose them...they also exhort and edify the body. Their main function today is to the church...the body of saints.
They do not add additional prophesy to His Written Word but rather confirm it.

Ignorance is a destroyer of His Truth....
Do not be ignorant my friends.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So....why are you fighting the issue?

I'm not actually fighting the issue. All I am doing is stating the Scriptural qualifications of a true apostle of the church. There were only the Apostles of Christ who lived in the 1st Century, who were directly appointed and commissioned by the risen Christ. None of those exist today.

But apostles of the church can still exist today if they are appointed by the Holy Spirit in much the same as Paul and Barnabas were commissioned through the group of teachers and prophets at Antioch where the Holy Spirit said, "Separate to me, Barnabas and Paul for the work I have called them." In my view, the validation that the Holy Spirit has genuinely appointed a person to be an apostle to the church is that his ministry is accompanied by signs and wonders. If the miraculous healing and deliverance is absent, then there is nothing to validate the claim that the ministry has been appointed other than by men in charge of the particular denomination that "apostle" is working in.

Any denomination can appoint an itinerate ministry to go around the churches of that denomination to confirm the saints in the faith and to glorify the grace of Christ as much as he is able. He could be called an apostle, but an apostle of that denomination, and not of the wider body of Christ.

Another qualification of an apostle is that he preaches the Gospel throughout the world and plants churches. John Wesley fitted that description because he spent most of his ministry itinerating between towns and cities and there were 250 cases of miraculous healing in the course of his ministry.

So, there is a wide difference between being called an apostle and actually being one according to Scripture.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Paul Christensen ....Hi Paul I believe differently than you about the 5 fold ministry....
I have to dissect it a little at a time...
First all His Apostles were His Disciples....Christ had many disciples He was teaching....how do we know this?

John 6 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵³ Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
⁵⁴ Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
⁵⁵ For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
⁵⁶ He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
⁵⁷ As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
⁵⁸ This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
⁵⁹ These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
⁶⁰
⁶⁸ Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
⁶⁹ And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
⁷⁰ Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
⁷¹ He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.


John 6 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶⁰ Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
⁶¹ When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
⁶² What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
⁶³ It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
⁶⁴ But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
⁶⁵ And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
⁶⁶ From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
⁶⁷ Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

 

[dev553344]

God will decide if we need a prophet, man can accept them or not. But yeah Jesus is the Chief Prophet and blesses us with the spiritual gift of prophecy. So if you need a prophet then you need Jesus.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You said Apostles were chosen by Jesus.....
In Acts they cast lots to replace Judas
Acts 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
¹⁶ Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
¹⁷ For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
¹⁸ Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
¹⁹ And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
²⁰ For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
²¹ Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Acts 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²² Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
²³ And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
²⁴ And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
²⁵ That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
²⁶ And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

2 things are seen here....
1...Peter stood up amongst the disciples..(120)
2. They chose 2 men to cast lots to see who would replace Judas.

Now here is my 3rd point....
When did Jesus ever refer to the 12 disciples as His Apostles?
The greek word for apostle means one who is sent.

APOSTLE
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Apostle
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Apostle, (from Greek apostolos, “person sent”), any of the 12 disciples chosen by Jesus Christ. The term is sometimes also applied to others, especially Paul, who was converted to Christianity a few years after Jesus’ death. In Luke 6:13 it is stated that Jesus chose 12 from his disciples “whom he named apostles,” and in Mark 6:30 the Twelve are called Apostles when mention is made of their return from the mission of preaching and healing on which Jesus had sent them. The full list of the Twelve is given with some variation in Mark 3, Matthew 10, and Luke 6 as: Peter and Andrew, the sons of John (John 21:15); James and John, the sons of Zebedee; ; Philip; Bartholomew; Matthew; Thomas; James, the son of Alphaeus; Jude, or Thaddaeus, the son of James; Simon the Cananaean, or the Zealot; and Judas Iscariot.

Paul himself claimed the title of Apostle, apparently on the grounds that he had seen the Lord and received a commission directly from him. This appears to be in agreement with the condition in Acts that a newly appointed Apostle should be capable of giving eyewitness testimony to the Lord’s Resurrection. According to some early Christian writers, however, some were called “apostles” after the period covered by the New Testament. The word also has been used to designate a high administrative or ecclesiastical officer.

 

[Triumph1300]

God will decide if we need a prophet, man can accept them or not

Amen to that.
Plain and simple.
Still happens today.
God never changes.