Does God Consult Other Heavenly Beings?

[Wrangler]

Why talk to God if He doesn't ask me questions? Because He's my Father and knows everything and I don't! You sure have some strange questions.

Moses asked God not to destroy the nation of Israel and God listened to Moses.

The strangeness of your post is to deny prayer means to ask for something. Why pray if he is not listening, not in the business of answering prayers? It's strange not to consider this, not to ask these questions.

 

[Truman]

Not an answer to my request to explain it. Given that God presides over the Council (Great Assembly, if you prefer), how do you conclude he does not consult them? In addition, the Bible is filled with stories of God taking council from others, like how many righteous people need to be in a city in order for him to not destroy it. Seems like an EXACT OPPOSITE conclusion from the text.

Also, I do not believe the text has gods in quotes. God presides over the gods in assembly. My translation renders it Heavenly Council. Perhaps you are overlooking that this is what Great Assembly means in your translation. Besides, God, there are other Heavenly Beings. We know this to be true because God sends angels. Not sure how this is self-explanatory with the rest of your post.

You think too much!

 

[Wrangler]

Isaiah 40:13 Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord,
Or as His counselor has taught Him?
14 With whom did He take counsel, and whoinstructed Him,
And taught Him in the path of justice?
Who taught Him knowledge,
And showed Him the way of understanding?

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “For who has known themind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”

Tong
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Yet, God presides overly the Heavenly Council.

 

[Wrangler]

You think too much!

Yea, let's change the subject to the text of Scripture and the question of the OP.

 

[Truman]

Moses asked God not to destroy the nation of Israel and God listened to Moses.

The strangeness of your post is to deny prayer means to ask for something. Why pray if he is not listening, not in the business of answering prayers? It's strange not to consider this, not to ask these questions.

I don't understand you, man. You ask the strangest questions, and now you're trying to put words in my mouth. Later, gator!

 

[Tong2020]

Yet, God presides overly the Heavenly Council.

Does not necessarily negate the truth written in Isaiah 40:13-14 and Romans 11:33-35.

Tong
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[Wrangler]

Does not necessarily negate the truth written in Isaiah 40:13-14 and Romans 11:33-35.

Tong
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You are confusing the matter over the word Council/Counselor. Isaiah 40 & Romans 11 simply make the point that no one taught God. This is not the same thing at all as God asks for and acts on input from others. I've provided numerous Scriptural references. Ignore them if you want. But that begs the question of why you are posting in this thread.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Does not necessarily negate the truth written in Isaiah 40:13-14 and Romans 11:33-35.

You are confusing the matter over the word Council/Counselor. Isaiah 40 & Romans 11 simply make the point that no one taught God. This is not the same thing at all as God asks for and acts on input from others. I've provided numerous Scriptural references. Ignore them if you want. But that begs the question of why you are posting in this thread.

Perhaps you missed my point when I quoted Isaiah 40:13-14 and Romans 11:33-35 or a more careful reading of the same is needed.

I would like to have your attention to the ff. Verse:

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 “For who has known themind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”

If you realize what those in bold font means….

Counselor = a person who gives advice

According to the passage then God needs no counselor. So, if there be any passages that you would cite which you take as though God needed counsel, such take could only be a mistake.

Tong
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[Wrangler]

So, if there be any passages that you would cite which you take as though God needed counsel, such take could only be a mistake.

Need is where you are mistaken! God needs nothing.

Other verses clearly show God chooses to answer prayers. That is, take the council of others. Again, not out of need but preference. He shows his love for us in this and other ways.

It really is simple and analogous to how any parent feels about the child. When my granddaughter wants Toy A rather than Toy B, I’m inclined to defer to her - unless there are mitigating circumstances.

 

[dev553344]

A study note from NSRV Ex 20:3 speculates the purpose behind the wording is to dispense with the idea of a heavenly council. Yet, Jesus himself invoked Ps 82:6.

The True God stands to preside over the heavenly council.
He pronounces judgment on the so-called gods.
Ps 82:1

Micaiah: 19 You should heed the Eternal’s message. I saw a vision of the Eternal One sitting on His throne with the heavenly army surrounding Him on all sides. 20 In the vision, the Eternal said, “Who will be the one to entice Ahab into battle at Ramoth-gilead so he may die there?” Everyone had a different opinion about who should do the task.

21 Right then, a spirit revealed itself to the Eternal and said, “I will do it. I will draw Ahab into battle.”

22 The Eternal One asked, “How do you plan on doing this?”

The spirit answered, “I will become a spirit of deception within the words of his prophets.”

The Eternal spoke again, “I like this idea. You will succeed at drawing him into battle. Proceed quickly.” 23 Therefore, the Eternal has placed a spirit of deception in the mouths of all your prophets, and He has sent destruction upon you. You will lose.
2 Kings 22:19-23

In order for us to receive answers to prayers we must pray to know God's will. And once we know God's will we pray for it and it is usually done. This is because only God is good and only his will be done. There are exceptions to God's will but they aren't good.

I think heavenly beings take council from God. Only God is good.

 

[Wrangler]

I think heavenly beings take council from God. Only God is good.

That is the VERY OPPOSITE of the quote from the Book of Kings in the OP.

 

[dev553344]

That is the VERY OPPOSITE of the quote from the Book of Kings in the OP.

I don't think it is. I think it depends on how you read the scripture there. If God presides over a heavenly counsel then he is there to teach them goodness and judgment. Perhaps he lets them discuss and then he directs them. Which is inline with the OP quote. Otherwise there are beings commanding God. Which I know isn't true. And I also know for a fact that all miracles of power flow from God only. Even Christ acted with power from the Father. And I know for a fact that God is not going to flow his power against his will. So that renders anyone counseling him void of any power to perform acts from heaven.

From what I know of God, he lets us make decisions. And when our decisions line up with his will, he does it. But when it doesn't it is a gamble.

 

[Tong2020]

Need is where you are mistaken! God needs nothing.

Other verses clearly show God chooses to answer prayers. That is, take the council of others. Again, not out of need but preference. He shows his love for us in this and other ways.

It really is simple and analogous to how any parent feels about the child. When my granddaughter wants Toy A rather than Toy B, I’m inclined to defer to her - unless there are mitigating circumstances.

That’s right. God is infinitely wise, omniscient, and all, that He really needs no counsel.

So, as I said, if there be any passages that you would cite which you take as though God needed counsel, such take could only be a mistake.

Tong
R4698

 

[Wrangler]

don't think it is. I think it depends on how you read the scripture there. If God presides over a heavenly counsel then he is there to teach them goodness and judgment.

Interpretation? 2 Kings 22:19-20 explicitly states the EXACT OPPOSITE of God teaching them goodness and judgment; he solicits options from the council and acts on the answer one gave to him about what to do - to achieve his end, God's Will.

 

[Wrangler]

So, as I said, if there be any passages that you would cite which you take as though God needed counsel, such take could only be a mistake.

Just ignore 2 Kings 22:19-20.

 

[Tong2020]

Just ignore 2 Kings 22:19-20.

Nope.

2 Kings 22:19 because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the Lord when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they would become a desolation and a curse, and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you,” says the Lord. 20 “Surely, therefore, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace; and your eyes shall not see all the calamity which I will bring on this place.” ’ ” So they brought back word to the king.

So, what’s with this passage that you refer to it?

Tong
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[Wrangler]

So, what’s with this passage that you refer to it?

See OP.

Odd how some people ask questions previously answered.

 

[Tong2020]

Nope.

2 Kings 22:19 because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the Lord when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they would become a desolation and a curse, and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you,” says the Lord. 20 “Surely, therefore, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace; and your eyes shall not see all the calamity which I will bring on this place.” ’ ” So they brought back word to the king.

So, what’s with this passage that you refer to it?

See OP.

Odd how some people ask questions previously answered.

Sorry, but having read 2 Kings 22:19-20 only presents what God will do with the king. There is nothing any there that speaks about the issue of “God soliciting options from the council and acts on the answer one gave to him about what to do - to achieve his end, God's Will.”

No matter how many times I read the passage you cited, a copy of which I pasted in my post for your reading, there is none and is irrelevant.

Now, that’s what is odd.

Tong
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[Wrangler]

Sorry, but having read 2 Kings 22:19-20 only presents what God will do with the king. There is nothing any there that speaks about the issue of “God soliciting options from the council and acts on the answer one gave to him about what to do - to achieve his end, God's Will.”

You are in complete and total denial. You do not have eyes to see.

Make a blessed day

For 1 Kings 22:19-20 presents God soliciting options from the council and acts on the answer one gave to him about what to do - to achieve his end, God's Will. The fact that the verse is about a king is irrelevant to the point.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Sorry, but having read 2 Kings 22:19-20 only presents what God will do with the king. There is nothing any there that speaks about the issue of “God soliciting options from the council and acts on the answer one gave to him about what to do - to achieve his end, God's Will.”

You are in complete and total denial. You do not have eyes to see.

Make a blessed day

For 2 Kings 22:19-20 presents God soliciting options from the council and acts on the answer one gave to him about what to do - to achieve his end, God's Will. The fact that the verse is about a king is irrelevant to the point.

It would be wise for you if you actually reread the scriptures you cited (2 Kings 22:19-20) before continue and repeatedly make unpleasant personal comments against me, that have nothing at all to do with the conversation. Besides it is only a short read. Let me copy and paste it here for your convenience.

2 Kings 22:19 because your heart was tender, and you humbled yourself before the Lord when you heard what I spoke against this place and against its inhabitants, that they would become a desolation and a curse, and you tore your clothes and wept before Me, I also have heard you,” says the Lord. 20 “Surely, therefore, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace; and your eyes shall not see all the calamity which I will bring on this place.” ’ ” So they brought back word to the king.

Tong
R4721