Does God judge generations, individuals, or both?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wynona

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Jan 27, 2021
3,596
7,372
113
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Consider these two passages...

Exodus 34:6-8 ESV

6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands,[a] forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped.


Then there's a passage in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel 18:20 ESV

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


I wonder if God deals with us as individuals only or according to generational curses/blessings or both just based on these two passages.

Thoughts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Patrick1966

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,909
2,569
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I wonder if God deals with us as individuals only or according to generational curses/blessings or both just based on these two passages.

Ezekiel 18 is talking about the second death judgement. This only happens when all of mankind stands before the Lord in the Great White Throne Room, to be judged and as Ezekiel 18 states, people are only judged for their own sins and not the sins of their children or their fathers,

The Exodus 20:4-7, 34:6-8 and Deuteronomy 5:8-10 all speak of the visitation of the sins of the fathers during the first and second ages of the existence of the Israelites, being visited upon the fathers' children and the children's children in the third and the fourth period of time. The primary sin that God was warning against was continual idolatrous worship. The children's children at the end of the fourth age, will be required to repent of their fathers' sins during the first, second and third age of the existence of the Israelites as well as their idolatrous worship during the fourth age.

In Daniel 9:24, God prophesied through Daniel the Prophet that there would be a period of grace of 490 (solar) years at the end of the second age of their existence, in which they could repent of their transgressions against God. The nation of Israel, during this 490 year period, did not take advantage of God's grace to repent of their transgression. It is my view that the second age of the existence of the Israelites ended in the year that Christ was born. When the Israelites did not repent during this period of grace of 490 years of their transgression, the visitation of the father' iniquities that took place during the first and second ages of their existence was visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth ages.

Hosea 9 presents a picture of God's punishment upon the Children of Israel.

Hosea 9: - Judgment of Israel's Sin

9:1 Do not rejoice, O Israel, with joy like other peoples,​
For you have played the harlot against your God.​
You have made love for hire on every threshing floor.​
2 The threshing floor and the winepress​
Shall not feed them,​
And the new wine shall fail in her.​
3 They shall not dwell in the Lord's country,​
But Ephraim shall return to Egypt,​
And shall eat unclean things in Assyria.​
4 They shall not offer wine offerings to the Lord,​
Nor shall their sacrifices be pleasing to Him.​
It shall be like bread of mourners to them;​
All who eat it shall be defiled.​
For their bread shall be for their own life;​
It shall not come into the house of the Lord.​
5 What will you do in the appointed day,​
And in the day of the feast of the Lord?​
6 For indeed they are gone because of destruction.​
Egypt shall gather them up;​
Memphis shall bury them.​
Nettles shall possess their valuables of silver;​
Thorns shall be in their tents.​
7 The {two} days[1] of punishment have come;​
The {two} days of recompense have come.​
Israel knows!​
The prophet is a fool,​
The spiritual man is insane,​
Because of the greatness of your iniquity and great enmity.​
8 The watchman of Ephraim is with my God;​
But the prophet is a fowler's snare in all his ways —​
Enmity in the house of his God.​
9 They are deeply corrupted,​
As in the days of Gibeah.​
He will remember their iniquity;​
He will punish their sins.​
10 "I found Israel
Like grapes in the wilderness;
I saw your fathers
As the first fruits on the fig tree in its first season.
But they went to Baal Peor,
And separated themselves to that shame;
They became an abomination like the thing they loved.
11 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird —
No birth, no pregnancy, and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave them to the last man.
Yes, woe to them when I depart from them!
13 Just as I saw Ephraim like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place,
So, Ephraim will bring out his children to the murderer."​
14 Give them, O Lord —​
What will You give?​
Give them a miscarrying womb​
And dry breasts!​
15 "All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb."​
17 My God will cast them away,​
Because they did not obey Him;​
And they shall be wanderers among the nations.​

In Hosea 6:1-3 there is a call to repentance: -

Hosea 6:1-3: - A Call to Repentance

6:1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;​
For He has torn, but He will heal us;​
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.​
2 After two days {within God’s timeframe of reference[2]} He will revive us;​
On the third day {within God’s timeframe of reference} He will raise us up,​
That we may live in His sight.​
3 Let us know,​
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.​
His going forth is established as the morning;​
He will come to us like the rain,​
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.​

What you have described as a curse is in fact the consequences for israel adopting idolatrous worship practices within God's land that He had given them.

[1] The length of time of a Day within God’s timeframe of reference, within mankind’s timeframe of reference is, within my understanding, a period of 1,024 {solar} years

[2] A “day of the Lord” within God’s time frame of reference has the same duration as “an Age.” My understanding is that an Age has a length of 1,024 solar years in duration.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wynona

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,195
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello Wynona,

Today I believe it is individual.

How can anyone be responsible for any generation that may either make a good 7-8 years compared to a bad 3-5 years (speaking on the bible on how many different kings came and ruled over Jerusalem)?

In context of Gods chosen nation; Jesus spoke against them; because that nation had become so corrupt they worshipped idols, hearts became callous, and they even put Jesus to death. Jesus spoke about the coming judgment, so did John the baptist during the time and travels of Jesus; and Jesus himself said that he came to only the lost sheep of Isreal : in which He died for to complete the convenant they could never do themselves.

Once resurrection came; and the holy spirit was dropped; the Gospel went as far as the world was known to them; and when the day; the last day; the great and dreadful day of the Lord would come; which can be founded upon what would happen in Revelation, about the foretold 400 years before Christ great day and destruction of Jerusalem which would end all material religion; they even lost all of their geneology in 70Ad.

Jesus returned to gather his bride and the cup of wrath God had stored up against his chosen nation was let out which plauges insued and even when plagues came about some did not turn to God. There is also a time within this frame Jesus returned and those watching and waiting were transformed in the twinkling of an eye, then judgement of that Age.

The judgement of that age; included the white throne judgment as well as those who were in “hades” which the souls came out of there; after this judgement hades was done away with; Satan was done away with, the False prophet, the Beast; with the destruction of Jerusalem and a restored world back to God due to the promise of Reconciling the world back to himself by and through the means of His son, who could and was the only one to hold the Law of Moses; which now Jesus due to fulfilment is the righteousness of people who have faith and love; as he gave commandment.

With all that what is there left?

What left it seems like is a separation from faithless people who choose willingly to have jothing to with faith, and those who are faithful.

The judgement I see today is no longer on a generation as that was for a generation 40 years after Jesus death and resurrection which would facr Gods wrath and be destroyed and put to ruin for what they had done; making a mockery of God, after so much time before though soem generations where good, some where not so good.

The judgement that I believe happens today is different than that age; i do believe in a lake of fire that comes from God and he is able to restore possibly in the afterlife but the flame of reality may be to warm to handle so much love that when people are resurrected, there is a judgement that invovles was the person faithful and did they love; i believe that is the over all judgment which.

Faithful people go in to reside in the spiritual Kingdom and those who want nothing to do with God are on the outside and this all by faith; because no one can really say Im wrong; because of these things are tied so closely to the bible itself; which should be tested by any traditional man-made stories that some may believe.

Which is totally up to you to decide but there was a generational judgement but today in this new Age of Fulfillment i believe the judgement is individual and you are completely responsible for the life you choose to live. It also hopefully be right after we give up out last breath.
 
Last edited:

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,744
5,599
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Consider these two passages...

Exodus 34:6-8 ESV

6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands,[a] forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped.


Then there's a passage in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel 18:20 ESV​

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


I wonder if God deals with us as individuals only or according to generational curses/blessings or both just based on these two passages.

Thoughts?

Those verses include both sides, both heaven and earth. Those generational sins speak of what can be expected in this world, and yet ultimately, though suffering exist within the world, iniquities are only individual in the eternal judgement.

This is what is meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth", whether any given word is regarding heaven or earth. So are they to be divided, that they should be properly understood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wynona

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
6,393
9,188
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
One explanation of " but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation” I've seen in the theology books is that certain sins are by their very nature generational. An example is the alcoholism (genetic) that runs on my father's side of the family. Incest and abuse are other horrible examples of learned sinful behavior that get passed from generation to generation.

I find this explanation somewhat forced and less than satisfactory, though I see some truth in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Wynona

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
8,227
3,524
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 16: 31
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved, you and your family.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,849
7,755
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia

Does God judge generations, individuals, or both?​

or do we (individually and generationally) Judge God.......worthy of our worship or no?
 

FaithWillDo

Active Member
Mar 1, 2023
896
151
43
63
Fort Collins, CO, USA
www.greatmysteryofchrist.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Consider these two passages...

Exodus 34:6-8 ESV

6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands,[a] forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped.


Then there's a passage in Ezekiel...

Ezekiel 18:20 ESV​

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


I wonder if God deals with us as individuals only or according to generational curses/blessings or both just based on these two passages.

Thoughts?
Dear Wynona,
Only the individual is judged and since all mankind has sinned, all mankind will be judged. I'll explain below.

All mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) because as Eze 18:20 states, the soul who sins shall die. Since all mankind as sinned, all mankind will be destroyed by Christ's judgment (Lake of Fire). There are no exceptions.

Christ's judgment will occur in this present age for the Elect before they die.

1Pe 4:17 For it is the ripe time for the judgment to begin with the house of God; but, if first with us, what shall be the end of them who yield not unto the glad-message of God?

But before their judgment begins, Christ will give them the free gift of the Holy Spirit and cause them to be "born again". This new creation of Christ's will be a child of God who has never sinned and never will. The spiritual process of a person's salvation is called conversion. And because the Elect become a child of God prior to their judgment falling on them, they will not experience Christ's wrath during their Day of the Lord.

Revelation chapter 19 presents the new birth and judgment of the Elect using the marriage analogy.

As for the rest of mankind who were not chosen for salvation in this age, they will not be converted by Christ prior to their deaths. Upon their resurrection from the grave, the Day of the Lord (Christ's judgment) will arrive for them. At that time, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. And just as the Elect were, they, too, will be judged by the Law which demands their death. And since judgment falls upon them prior to their new birth, they will experience Christ's wrath. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them faith. At that time, Christ will pour out the Early and Latter Rains upon them and they will be converted into a child of God.

Joel chapter 2 teaches this truth.

This verse also applies:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's judgment will NOT omit the weightier matters of the Law as mankind's judgment does.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.


Christ's judgment will always contain justice, mercy and faith:

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.


As for sinful mankind, justice demands that they perish in accordance with the Law. Mankind will never be acceptable to Christ:

Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

The old vessel (mankind) will be destroyed and made into a new vessel (child of God) that seemed good to the Potter to make:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

After the last of mankind has been converted into a child of God, this verse will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The conversion of mankind is solely the work and responsibility of Christ. Mankind cannot contribute to it (Eph 2:8-10).

Mankind's salvation is the primary reason why Christ came into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

In the end, all mankind who died in Adam (that's everyone) will be made alive "in Christ":

1Cor 15:22 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

This is the true Gospel that should be taught to the world.

Joe
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,909
2,569
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
All mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) because as Eze 18:20 states, the soul who sins shall die. Since all mankind as sinned, all mankind will be destroyed by Christ's judgment (Lake of Fire). There are no exceptions.

Putting this one verse into the context of the passage in which it is found: -

Ezekiel 18: 19-31: - Turn and Live
19 "Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die/suffer the second death. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die/suffer the second death. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die/suffer the second death?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die/suffer the second death.
25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies {the second death}. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die/suffer the second death. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?
30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, everyone according to his ways," says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed and get yourselves a new/refurbished heart and a new/fresh spirit. For why should you die/suffer the second death, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies/suffers the second death," says the Lord God. "Therefore, turn and live!"​
 

FaithWillDo

Active Member
Mar 1, 2023
896
151
43
63
Fort Collins, CO, USA
www.greatmysteryofchrist.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Putting this one verse into the context of the passage in which it is found: -

Ezekiel 18: 19-31: - Turn and Live
19 "Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die/suffer the second death. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die/suffer the second death. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die/suffer the second death?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die/suffer the second death.
25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies {the second death}. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die/suffer the second death. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?
30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, everyone according to his ways," says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed and get yourselves a new/refurbished heart and a new/fresh spirit. For why should you die/suffer the second death, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies/suffers the second death," says the Lord God. "Therefore, turn and live!"​
Dear Jay Ross,
The Law was given to prove that no man can perfectly follow the Law. When a person realizes this truth, it will lead them to Christ and His work under the New Covenant.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The Old Covenant is man's work of trying to make themselves righteous. The New Covenant is Christ's work of making us righteous. When Christ does His work within us, the old vessel will be destroyed and the new vessel created. Our faith of trusting Christ to do all the work is what opens the door for Christ to do His work of converting us. Conversion requires both the baptism of the Holy Spirit which will create new vessel and Christ's judgment (the Day of the Lord) in the Lake of Fire which will destroy the old vessel.

Joe
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,909
2,569
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Dear Jay Ross,
The Law was given to prove that no man can perfectly follow the Law. When a person realizes this truth, it will lead them to Christ and His work under the New Covenant.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The Old Covenant is man's work of trying to make themselves righteous. The New Covenant is Christ's work of making us righteous. When Christ does His work within us, the old vessel will be destroyed and the new vessel created. Our faith of trusting Christ to do all the work is what opens the door for Christ to do His work of converting us. Conversion requires both the baptism of the Holy Spirit which will create new vessel and Christ's judgment (the Day of the Lord) in the Lake of Fire which will destroy the old vessel.

Joe

Dear Joe,

In the above passage, I highlighted the changes that I see are needed in the verses by reducing the visibility of the words which I believe do not convey the context of the original Hebrew text and bolding the words which I feel convey provide a better contextualisation of what the author was trying to convey. My understanding is that this passage was pointing to a future time and what was required of them for righteousness.

I chose to deliberately present the scriptural passage, with the corrections that I believe are required to hold to the contextual integrity of what Ezekiel had written.

From my understanding I cannot say Amen, to what you believe is the salvation process by what you have presented.

Shalom
 

Wynona

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Jan 27, 2021
3,596
7,372
113
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ezekiel 18 is talking about the second death judgement. The only happen when all of mankind stands before the Lord in the Great White Throne Room, to be judged and as Ezekiel 18 states, people are only judged for their own sins and not the sins of their children or their fathers,

The Exodus 20:4-7, 34:6-8 and Deuteronomy 5:8-10 all speak of the visitation of the sins of the fathers during the first and second ages of the existence of the Israelites, being visited upon the fathers' children and the children's children in the third and the fourth period of time. The primary sin that God was warning against was continual idolatrous worship. The children's children at the end of the fourth age, will be required to repent of their fathers' sins during the first, second and third age of the existence of the Israelites as well as their idolatrous worship during the fourth age.

In Daniel 9:24, God prophesied through Daniel the Prophet that there would be a period of grace of 490 (solar) years at the end of the second age of their existence, in which they could repent of their transgressions against God. The nation of Israel, during this 490 year period, did not take advantage of God's grace to repent of their transgression. It is my view that the second age of the existence of the Israelites ended in the year that Christ was born. When the Israelites did not repent during this period of grace of 490 years of their transgression, the visitation of the father' iniquities that took place during the first and second ages of their existence was visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth ages.

Hosea 9 presents a picture of God's punishment upon the Children of Israel.

Hosea 9: - Judgment of Israel's Sin

9:1 Do not rejoice, O Israel, with joy like other peoples,​
For you have played the harlot against your God.​
You have made love for hire on every threshing floor.​
2 The threshing floor and the winepress​
Shall not feed them,​
And the new wine shall fail in her.​
3 They shall not dwell in the Lord's country,​
But Ephraim shall return to Egypt,​
And shall eat unclean things in Assyria.​
4 They shall not offer wine offerings to the Lord,​
Nor shall their sacrifices be pleasing to Him.​
It shall be like bread of mourners to them;​
All who eat it shall be defiled.​
For their bread shall be for their own life;​
It shall not come into the house of the Lord.​
5 What will you do in the appointed day,​
And in the day of the feast of the Lord?​
6 For indeed they are gone because of destruction.​
Egypt shall gather them up;​
Memphis shall bury them.​
Nettles shall possess their valuables of silver;​
Thorns shall be in their tents.​
7 The {two} days[1] of punishment have come;​
The {two} days of recompense have come.​
Israel knows!​
The prophet is a fool,​
The spiritual man is insane,​
Because of the greatness of your iniquity and great enmity.​
8 The watchman of Ephraim is with my God;​
But the prophet is a fowler's snare in all his ways —​
Enmity in the house of his God.​
9 They are deeply corrupted,​
As in the days of Gibeah.​
He will remember their iniquity;​
He will punish their sins.​
10 "I found Israel
Like grapes in the wilderness;
I saw your fathers
As the first fruits on the fig tree in its first season.
But they went to Baal Peor,
And separated themselves to that shame;
They became an abomination like the thing they loved.
11 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird —
No birth, no pregnancy, and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave them to the last man.
Yes, woe to them when I depart from them!
13 Just as I saw Ephraim like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place,
So, Ephraim will bring out his children to the murderer."​
14 Give them, O Lord —​
What will You give?​
Give them a miscarrying womb​
And dry breasts!​
15 "All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb."​
17 My God will cast them away,​
Because they did not obey Him;​
And they shall be wanderers among the nations.​

In Hosea 6:1-3 there is a call to repentance: -

Hosea 6:1-3: - A Call to Repentance

6:1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;​
For He has torn, but He will heal us;​
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.​
2 After two days {within God’s timeframe of reference[2]} He will revive us;​
On the third day {within God’s timeframe of reference} He will raise us up,​
That we may live in His sight.​
3 Let us know,​
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.​
His going forth is established as the morning;​
He will come to us like the rain,​
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.​

What you have described as a curse is in fact the consequences for israel adopting idolatrous worship practices within God's land that He had given them.

[1] The length of time of a Day within God’s timeframe of reference, within mankind’s timeframe of reference is, within my understanding, a period of 1,024 {solar} years

[2] A “day of the Lord” within God’s time frame of reference has the same duration as “an Age.” My understanding is that an Age has a length of 1,024 solar years in duration.
This was a helpful explanation. Thank you!
 

Ghada

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2023
1,503
218
63
63
Damascus
Faith
Christian
Country
Syrian Arab Republic
6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands,[a] forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.” 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped.
but who will by no means clear the guilty,

visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children


It's those guilty of the same sins as the parents, that will be judged as the parents. The judgement for iniquity upon the flesh and the soul, is the same upon all that do it. God is saying that how we raise our children, we will be responsible for, and the children suffer in evil households. However, that does not excuse the children if they take evil raising to heart and becoming evil doers as well.

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:


When God speaks of a group, it's all those from all the world He judges to be in that group, not anyone that does not belong in that group by works, whether wicked or righteous.

A nation can be turned into hell as a nation, but only those turning it into hell are judged for it. Those in the nation who do not forget God cannot be judged with the wicked that do.

In the judgment of nations in Matthew 25, God is judging all His newly inherited nations on earth, not as national groups, but whether them from among the nations are sheep or goats.

It's the same for weeding out the tares from among the churches of God.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This concludes the question, that God judges each and every single man's works. Not all men's works together.

It also shows the hypocrisy of any kind of believer, that believe they are exempt from God's impartial righteous judgement of our works, just because of what they believe and think. We are not judged by our faith, but by our works. Just as we are not justified by our faith only, but by our works.

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

God does not contradict Himself, and so cannot possibly judge people by their national heritage, if He doesn't even judge people for their parental birth.

Noah was saved from the destruction of the wicked. This does not mean everyone drowned was wicked by doing wickedly, because of the babes. There is no guarantee the innocent do not die alongside the guilty. As the verse points out, the judgement of God is of the soul for the works we do in this life. The question is about judgment of the soul, not death of the body.

God in Ezekiel is rebuking man's misguided notion that we are judged as groups. Every individual will stand for himself before God, not in groups. He is also correcting His own peoples' error in thinking so by misinterpreting His words elsewhere.

Not all of the children of Israel perished in the destruction of Israel and of Jerusalem by Assyria and Babylon.

Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD. If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,

This also shows that neither parental birth nor upbringing can guarantee the child will be as the parent, whether for good or evil.

In the end all we can do, is to do good by our faith in God, and be a living witness of good works in Christ to others.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wynona

thelord's_pearl

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2021
1,336
1,871
113
O`nowhere you have to know
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I feel that learning from the world, including my parents without a God has really cursed me. Doing a little wrong, brought on a severe curse. I think I'm a victim of a generational curse too but it is now time that I've been reducing my psychiatric medications so I hope God will bless me richly after all the suffering in my life from social anxiety which I hardly have anymore and psychotic anxiety which I don't have anymore as a natural supplement stopped the worrying. It's in the bible that God judges generations up to the third and fourth generation and he does judge individuals as well.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,195
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah traits of behavior are passed down through observation and learning only way to counteract it is bringing forth truth to the behavior.

Though this can also be applied to the mentally challneged when those of the spirit are there with them to curb their aggression though sometimes like normal people it can be hard to handle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cassandra

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,195
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello @Wynona,

It is all in the hands on individuals hands.

All families, contribute to the way a person may go, be it good or bad. Will one choose to leave idolatry and turn towards Yahava. To make the world better looking towards Him, or to make the world worst looking to ourselves, and even making idolatry. It is hard to turn from this World, and say there is a God who desires me to look towards him. God bless you and your family sister.

 

Wynona

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Jan 27, 2021
3,596
7,372
113
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello @Wynona,

It is all in the hands on individuals hands.

All families, contribute to the way a person may go, be it good or bad. Will one choose to leave idolatry and turn towards Yahava. To make the world better looking towards Him, or to make the world worst looking to ourselves, and even making idolatry. It is hard to turn from this World, and say there is a God who desires me to look towards him. God bless you and your family sister.

Thanks! God bless you too!