I have explained why there is rejoicing when the elect FINALLY come in. Often there is much resistance and some resist to the last minute. Sinners are quite useful to God and His elect, and the Bible gives many ways that they are. You really do not understand the sovereignty of God and insist on humanistic thought patterns which are abhorrent to God.Axehead said:You choose to ignore all the scripture I have given that states how God because He IS love gives grace and mercy to sinners. The elect receive it while they are in sin and the non elect as they continue in sin by a FREEWILL choice. However God's judgements will fall on sinners at the end of the age just as they did in the OT. No, sinners serve very useful purposes in carrying out God's plan which was made, finished, and over with from before time began. They do it by making freewill choices which God directs using His determinative, directive, preventive, and permissive controls. Sinners were necessary to carry out God's predetermined plan for Christ's crucifixion as well as the rest of the predetermined plan.But, according to lesjude, God only loves some while they are sinners. (If they are the Elect). The other blaspheming, vulgar, perverted sinners don't qualify not because their sin is the same as the Elect sinners, but because they were created primarily to be destroyed. That is what I am getting from les.
So, what's all the rejoicing about by a God who has already predetermined that the elect sinners will be turned into the elect saints. It's like a little boy playing with toy soldiers who have no choice and he lines them up on opposite sides and then rejoices when the side that he had predetermined to win, wins. It's kind of weird, to me.
The term "pawns" comes to mind.
For lesjude:
I have told you God IS love and as a result it is His nature to give grace and mercy to sinners. His love for His elect is FAR different and I have given numerous examples. The early church understood this and NEVER gave a message that spoke of God's love for sinners.If we are to love our enemies, presumably because Jesus loved His enemies then that means that Jesus DOES love sinners. Because not all our enemies or His enemies are the Elect. Jesus does not distinguish between elect or not. He says love your enemies, do good to them and pray for them.
Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That grace flows to the elect ONLY because Christ died to make it possible. What you do not seem to grasp is that EVERYTHING was predetermined by God before time began. The elect do make a freewill choice from their standpoint, but only because of the grace they receive. ANYTHING else would not be grace but man choosing without grace. If the grace were there for everyone all would be saved which is certainly contrary to what the Bible says.Axehead said:So, that makes it even more unusual that God would rejoice when a predetermined saved soul doesn't choose by his will to be repent and believe the Gospel.
God is rejoicing over someone who did not use his will to choose to follow Him.
I think I get it.
It's easy now. Only the elect will be saved, only the elect will endure. Or to say it another way, the Elect will never be lost or give up.
I don't disagree with that. It's kind of like "Monday morning quarterbacking". What I disagree with is that man has no volitional response in accepting God's gift of grace or receiving Jesus Christ. As if our choosing to repent of our sins and follow Jesus somehow invalidates what He did on the cross and cancels out His grace.