Thank you! I copied them to my computer Bible studies also for reference. Your post prompted me to also save them for easy access.
Does "LAW" matter?
- Thread starter Willie T
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aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
Truth
Well-Known Member
Praise God, I to think that they will be a significant source for study, and reference, which will be good for discussion!
Truth
Well-Known Member
Heavens NO! I have studied the OT for many years, and I mean just the first five books. Gen, Exod, lev, Numb, Deut, OK! for 7 + tears then I started to reread the New, and the New Testament came alive to me!!
Most people do not realize that there was no animal Sacrifice for intentional sin!
If you stumbled, without intention then you could find a resolve by an offering, But if you knew that what you were about to do was against the Torah, you were kinda stuck.
But that being said, what is sin! Sin is the transgression of the Torah, Paul has said so, the Torah is our instruction- which Torah = in Hebrew!
God gave us His Instructions on how to live, before Him and with people! the word LAW brings a defensive action. try reading Instructions at every place the word Law is printed!
Truth
Well-Known Member
Yes I look into these in the Past, but never had them with Scripture reference, I don't mind the work, but that link is Great! makes searching simpler. Thanks Again
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
being 'under law' my friend does not mean being saved by law neither does not being under law give one permission to break it.
This is no gross assumption rather it is a gross presumption to think that God's Law can be treated with an air of indifference at best or to discard it altogether at worst.
Well, not only is the believer saved by faith, but he also walks by faith. That is the whole book of (Galatians).
Again, no one is saying we have permission to break the Law. But we are not under the Law.
The Law is Holy, just, and good. We can learn many things out of the Law. But we are no longer under the Law.
Stranger
Willie: I don’t know if you are confused or not, or are just trying to get a firm handle on the issue of the Law.
You seem to indicate that in some way the OT Laws apply to believers today. And then I see you are trying to convince us that modern Judaic types have a modern law system that we should obey; like the 613 laws or something you quoted. Yes, I know many are based on the OT Law.
For me and my faith under grace, I do not follow any OT Law or any false Jewish or Judaic 613 laws. These people are first false Jews and then they are blind to the truth, and I for one, do not adhere to any of their own teachings. If some of their teachings or laws coincide with mine, in my heart, then so be it.
I follow what Matt 22:37-39; Galatians Chapter 6 and Jeremiah 31:22-34 says.
We are under grace today not under the Law. If we are under grace and the only (applicable) Law(s) or commandments are moved to the surface and in our consciousness from within our hearts when necessary, then why go back to the imperfect form? Jesus fulfilled it and made it perfect. All those ‘good’ moral laws are there in our hearts when the spirit evokes them to action.
You have the spirit of God within you, right? If not, you will always be looking at those 613 and others to find the truth, as the truth is not ‘outside’ anymore, it is now ‘inside’ and carried in the hearts of true believers.
Bless you,
APAK
So, was all that just to answer my question about whether or not any of the laws God gave matter to us today, is "No?"
OK. I will just have to assume you decided not to read any of them...… or that you choose to dismiss them as irrelevant to our lives..
Truth
Well-Known Member
What is "keep the Sabbath" (in this particular context) anyway? Does it mean to identify a certain day of the week? Does it mean to set aside the full 24 hours of that day? Does it mean to give God time each week? Can that time (or day... or number of hours) ever change? What do we do if you are employed at something that requires you to work on particular days that violate such an idea? Even a priest or preacher engages in his employment on days the book said not to work at all.
Have we created a law God never intended for us to labor under?
No, none of this requires any answer at all. I was just musing.....
Have we created a law God never intended for us to labor under?
No, none of this requires any answer at all. I was just musing.....
Well I see you did not understand my writing and the points I was making. It's a shame.
These laws are irrelevant in the sense that you have to keep reading them to ensure you do not break any of them. Sounds like the Law all over again? These laws or sayings have been written down in different forms for a couple of thousand years. And yes I have read this particular set several times now. It is hard to get away from them when you live in a community loaded with Jews and you discuss scripture with them many times outside their temple. It is not anything 'new.'
Like I said, these 'Jews' even today, are blind and have continued to evolve a type of Law to follow, hoping they do not miss anything that will bar them from heaven. We, as believers should not participate in this type of activity.
Blessings,
APAK
The entire Old Testament is about Christ and His righteousness. A righteousness which is promised to all if they believe. Life isn't about obeying every single law detailed in the OT or NT. The just (obedient) shall live by faith. You cannot have faith that believes in the justification through the Lamb but rejects the faith that believes in the power and willingness of the Father to recreate us in the image of the Lamb. If we are recreated in the image of Christ, that experientially cannot help but be realised in obedience to every single commandment, unless they are not completely applicable...for example the laws which applied to Israel as a civil nation. But even the spirit of those laws will find relevance. If we are made in the image of Christ, or re-made more like it, we are on safe ground. Holy ground.
I'm not sure why you ask that. Why you observe or keep the Sabbath is what you should be asking? Do you keep it because it is part of the Law? Or do you keep it because you believe in your walk of faith God wants you to?
Maybe you should ask, if I don't keep it, is it a sin?
Stranger
Yes, Christ counts us as friends. However we are still servants of the King! God created the Universe, and by right of creation, ALL men, not just a specific race, owe Him obedience to His Law.
The 10 Commandments, although they are good for anyone to keep, they were part of the law and, except for proselytes, the Gentiles were never under the law. Therefore, unlike the Jews, the Gentiles were never compelled to keep them. There were 4 ordinances given to the saved Gentiles in Ac 15, but all ordinances for Gentiles have been done away with, according to Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, 20. Some feel these done-away-with ordinances include things like water baptism, communion, etc, and I totally agree. We are free as a bird today, free to choose our own paths. Some end in permanent death and some in permanent life. There is no middle ground, no matter what pagan doctrine one has been drenched in.
In John 13-16, Christ was speaking to the 12 (or 11). Could you show us scripture where it says that everything spoken to the 12 also applies to us Gentiles or even to other Israelites besides the 12? Also, you might note that Christ said in Mt 15:24, "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel", and in Mt 10:5, He told the 12 NOT to go to any Gentile. That means that, if you've been taught to include yourself, as a Gentile, into everything Christ said, you are operating under very false, fake circumstances.
The only apostle that we Gentiles ever had is the apostle Paul. On any question we might have, about things that pertain directly to us, such as our hope or calling, Paul is the final word, period.
I'm not saying that Christ is not our friend. I am saying that, except for His death, what he gave to or said to the 12 or Israel cannot be assumed to apply directly to you, no matter what anybody told you. Paul is every Gentile's #1 main guy and until a person realizes that, they will never know hardly anything about the NT that resembles the truth.
Also, you might notice that, in the Bible record, the only Gentile Peter, or the other 11, ever ministered to was Cornelius in Acts 10. Peter had 3 visions before he was talked into doing it and, I'm sure he hated every minute of it. The ONLY reason he ministered to Cornelius was to pave the way for Paul's Gentile ministry.
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Truth
Well-Known Member
I have! and eventually, I came to the conclusion that the Sabbath was made for man, and it also was a commandment, plus God said it was a sign between Him and his people, SO I keep the original FRI sundown - SAT sundown Sabbath, I also believe that if we keep this Sabbath, by doing so we declare that God did create the heavens and the earth, And Rested, and Instituted the Sabbath, and declared it Holy - Set Apart!
As far as what you do before the Lord is your business, I am pretty sure that the Lord won't ask me why you did what you did!
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